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Old 01-05-2003, 07:32 AM
Madd Hatter
 
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Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I am building a small outdoor pond to breed cichlids in. I haven't decided
whether to go with Sounth American or African cichlids yet... Pond will be
approx 500 - 600 Gallons.... Never done this before, so any advice regarding
plants, filteration, feasability of raising cichlids this way, would be
appreciated.. I am in the Toronto area on Ontario Canada.



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Old 01-05-2003, 09:32 AM
Critical Popperian
 
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Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I am building a small outdoor pond to breed cichlids in. I haven't decided
whether to go with Sounth American or African cichlids yet... Pond will be
approx 500 - 600 Gallons.... Never done this before, so any advice regarding
plants, filteration, feasability of raising cichlids this way, would be
appreciated.. I am in the Toronto area on Ontario Canada.


Depending on your location... you'll probably need a serious heater to
keep the water as stabily warm as it is in the native countries. I
know one guy who is doing this and the #1 concern was building a
permanent gas-exchange and heating system for the pond.
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Old 01-05-2003, 03:33 PM
ajames54
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

On Thu, 01 May 2003 14:10:56 GMT, "Madd Hatter"
wrote:

I'm in the Toronto area (I think this equates weather wise to Michigan, near
the lakes)... I don't plan to make this a year round thing. I heard that
around june 1st the temp. gets warm enough to keep atleast South American in
there. I know there will probably be a lot of temperature fulx between night
and day... Is there a minimal depth i should dig to to minimize that? I'm
digging it in a large raised bed veggie garden. The angle of my yard would
make it pretty difficult otherwise, as I have the runoff drain for 3 or 4
houses in my yard. This way the water level will be above ground level.
Ofcourse this also means that I need to go deep enough to to have some
temperature stability. I hit clay at about 12"... Would about 3' be enough
for the deep end (2' at shallow) or should I make 3' the shallow end? I'm
planning to create it in steppes instead of a slope, so I can avoid
everything sliding to the deep end.



A couple of things ... 1) in toronto and environs if you go to 24
inches deep you need to get a pool permit and have a pool
fence... which is a pain... I went to 22 inches to keep my pond
in the "water feature" category and still help overwinter the
goldfish.

2) going deeper will help you maintain temperature stability, but
around here that means the deeper you go the cooler your water
will be... I have not paid a lot of attention to my temps but
even at 22 inches I only seem to occasionally get up to the mid
70s' and then only if it is really hot out... as a kid we had an
inground pool (unheated) that would range between 68 and 74
degrees.

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Old 01-05-2003, 05:08 PM
John Hines
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

"Madd Hatter" wrote:

I'm in the Toronto area (I think this equates weather wise to Michigan, near
the lakes)... I don't plan to make this a year round thing. I heard that
around june 1st the temp. gets warm enough to keep atleast South American in
there.


They would be a lot easier. Africans require water chemistry unique to
lake Malawi (?), very high pH and tropical.

You'll have to pull them out, and put them inside when the temp drops.

From my experience, with an Texas Cichlid in an aquarium, they are very
prolific.
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Old 01-05-2003, 05:44 PM
Madd Hatter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

Africans will live for a time in that sort of temp. range, but it will
eventualy kill them... South Americans seem to be hardier
"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
I may try the same thing. I kept chichlids at 65-68 and they looked fine.

It
depends on the chichlid though I suppose. These where bumble bee's and
kenyl's.


"Madd Hatter" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
I am building a small outdoor pond to breed cichlids in. I haven't

decided
whether to go with Sounth American or African cichlids yet... Pond will

be
approx 500 - 600 Gallons.... Never done this before, so any advice

regarding
plants, filteration, feasability of raising cichlids this way, would be
appreciated.. I am in the Toronto area on Ontario Canada.








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Old 01-05-2003, 06:20 PM
ajames54
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

On Thu, 01 May 2003 16:46:56 GMT, "Madd Hatter"
wrote:

I'm digging it in a raised bed that is about 18" above ground level... The
ground under it is pretty steeply sloped because I have the run off drain on
my property. If I put the "deep end" on the low end of the slope, I figure I
can go almost 2 feet deep and still be above "ground level". I figure I'll
only be 1.5' or so below that level at the deepest.. This will give me temp.
stability, hopefully at a bit higher temp. because the upper 2/3's of depth
are actually above the ground level... Does my logic hold water? (pun
intended!) or am I over the limit?


I never really thought about it like that, it certainly sounds
logical... I know at the other end that plants in raised beds are
more susceptible to root damage from freezing, so the other side
should work too...

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Old 01-05-2003, 09:44 PM
Madd Hatter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I hope so, cuz I jus finished digging!... Can you recommend any good cichlid
candidates to stick in there? America's or Africa... So far, I'm considering
The Jewel Cichlid, Convicts, Jaguar Cichilds and maybe Oscars. Might add a
really annoying Acei pair (7.5"+) later in the summer...
"ajames54" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 May 2003 16:46:56 GMT, "Madd Hatter"
wrote:

I'm digging it in a raised bed that is about 18" above ground level...

The
ground under it is pretty steeply sloped because I have the run off drain

on
my property. If I put the "deep end" on the low end of the slope, I

figure I
can go almost 2 feet deep and still be above "ground level". I figure

I'll
only be 1.5' or so below that level at the deepest.. This will give me

temp.
stability, hopefully at a bit higher temp. because the upper 2/3's of

depth
are actually above the ground level... Does my logic hold water? (pun
intended!) or am I over the limit?


I never really thought about it like that, it certainly sounds
logical... I know at the other end that plants in raised beds are
more susceptible to root damage from freezing, so the other side
should work too...



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Old 01-05-2003, 10:20 PM
ajames54
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

On Thu, 01 May 2003 20:35:39 GMT, "Madd Hatter"
wrote:

I hope so, cuz I jus finished digging!... Can you recommend any good cichlid
candidates to stick in there? America's or Africa... So far, I'm considering
The Jewel Cichlid, Convicts, Jaguar Cichilds and maybe Oscars. Might add a
really annoying Acei pair (7.5"+) later in the summer...


I've bread Jewels and Oscars in tanks and probably would not want
to try them in an outdoor pond... Convicts are supposedly easy to
breed... to be honest I think I would start out with Texas
Cichlids until I was sure my temps would support others..
  #9   Report Post  
Old 02-05-2003, 03:08 AM
Madd Hatter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I think that is pretty sound advice. I've kept Texas cichlids before. They
breed at a pretty small size.. Mine were under 3" (inc. the male!) When they
spawned for the first time... Unfortunately I needed space for my africans
so I ended up getting rid of the adults. And the fry.... well, we won't talk
about the fry.. how about the Jaguar cichlid? I've always found them to be
amazing fish, but they are absolutely insane in aquariums. They tend to want
to kill everything. I figure I should have a lot of room in that pond
(approx. 700GAL range) and I plan on planting as heavily as I can... DO you
know if they can take the temperature? Most sites list the range from about
68/70 all the way up to 75.
"ajames54" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 May 2003 20:35:39 GMT, "Madd Hatter"
wrote:

I hope so, cuz I jus finished digging!... Can you recommend any good

cichlid
candidates to stick in there? America's or Africa... So far, I'm

considering
The Jewel Cichlid, Convicts, Jaguar Cichilds and maybe Oscars. Might add

a
really annoying Acei pair (7.5"+) later in the summer...


I've bread Jewels and Oscars in tanks and probably would not want
to try them in an outdoor pond... Convicts are supposedly easy to
breed... to be honest I think I would start out with Texas
Cichlids until I was sure my temps would support others..



  #10   Report Post  
Old 02-05-2003, 08:32 PM
Steve Watson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

"Madd Hatter" wrote in message ble.rogers.com...
I think that is pretty sound advice. I've kept Texas cichlids before. They
breed at a pretty small size.. Mine were under 3" (inc. the male!) When they
spawned for the first time... Unfortunately I needed space for my africans

[....]

Let us know how it works out, Madd. I've got a looming overpopulation
of Kribs
in an aquarium (one very enthusiastic breeding pair!), so I may move a
bunch of them to the head-pond when the water get warmer. They'll
probably make decent mosquito fish. Don't know what I'll do with them
in the fall, though (I'm in Ottawa).

-- Steve


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Old 03-05-2003, 05:32 AM
Madd Hatter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I've finished digging the hole. I'm going to put the liner in tomorrow
morning.... hopefully I can start adding some fish by the endof the month.
"Steve Watson" wrote in message
om...
"Madd Hatter" wrote in message

ble.rogers.com...
I think that is pretty sound advice. I've kept Texas cichlids before.

They
breed at a pretty small size.. Mine were under 3" (inc. the male!) When

they
spawned for the first time... Unfortunately I needed space for my

africans
[....]

Let us know how it works out, Madd. I've got a looming overpopulation
of Kribs
in an aquarium (one very enthusiastic breeding pair!), so I may move a
bunch of them to the head-pond when the water get warmer. They'll
probably make decent mosquito fish. Don't know what I'll do with them
in the fall, though (I'm in Ottawa).

-- Steve



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Old 03-05-2003, 06:44 AM
Snooze
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

"Madd Hatter" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
I am building a small outdoor pond to breed cichlids in. I haven't decided
whether to go with Sounth American or African cichlids yet... Pond will be
approx 500 - 600 Gallons.... Never done this before, so any advice

regarding
plants, filteration, feasability of raising cichlids this way, would be
appreciated.. I am in the Toronto area on Ontario Canada.


Cichlids need really warm water, something you're not going to get around
January, especially outside. Not unless you add a good sized water heater.
I've never kept more then 2 cichlids in a tank, but I don't think breeding
pairs play nicely with others.

Do you plan on removing them from the pond when the weather starts to get
cooler? If you have a place to keep them half the year, when the weather is
cold, why not improve that area, and keep them there year round?

500 gal isn't that much as well, especially for highly territorial fish..

Sameer


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Old 03-05-2003, 06:56 AM
Madd Hatter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I plan to keep fish in the pond between june 1st and sometimein september. I
have 7 tanks running indoors right now, and am in the process of adding 8
more right now. I keep african cichlids in my indoor tanks, though I don't
think I'll be able to keep them outside. I plan to use the pond to
centraland south american cichlids that tolerate temperatures around 68 to
70 deg. My purpose here is to see if I can breed them effectively. I am
moving sometimenext year and one of my options is to purchase a rural
property where I can breed cichlids on a large scale. These experiments are
geared towards determining feasability of such a project.

"Snooze" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
"Madd Hatter" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
I am building a small outdoor pond to breed cichlids in. I haven't

decided
whether to go with Sounth American or African cichlids yet... Pond will

be
approx 500 - 600 Gallons.... Never done this before, so any advice

regarding
plants, filteration, feasability of raising cichlids this way, would be
appreciated.. I am in the Toronto area on Ontario Canada.


Cichlids need really warm water, something you're not going to get around
January, especially outside. Not unless you add a good sized water heater.
I've never kept more then 2 cichlids in a tank, but I don't think breeding
pairs play nicely with others.

Do you plan on removing them from the pond when the weather starts to get
cooler? If you have a place to keep them half the year, when the weather

is
cold, why not improve that area, and keep them there year round?

500 gal isn't that much as well, especially for highly territorial fish..

Sameer




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Old 09-05-2003, 06:45 PM
Rich Conley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breeding Cichlids in an outdoor pond...

I'd try somethin like yellow labs. They are cheap..so if you lose them....its
not a huge issue, and you can ALWAYS get rid of fry...not like convicts...who
you have to pay people to take..

Madd Hatter wrote:

I think that is pretty sound advice. I've kept Texas cichlids before. They
breed at a pretty small size.. Mine were under 3" (inc. the male!) When they
spawned for the first time... Unfortunately I needed space for my africans
so I ended up getting rid of the adults. And the fry.... well, we won't talk
about the fry.. how about the Jaguar cichlid? I've always found them to be
amazing fish, but they are absolutely insane in aquariums. They tend to want
to kill everything. I figure I should have a lot of room in that pond
(approx. 700GAL range) and I plan on planting as heavily as I can... DO you
know if they can take the temperature? Most sites list the range from about
68/70 all the way up to 75.
"ajames54" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 May 2003 20:35:39 GMT, "Madd Hatter"
wrote:

I hope so, cuz I jus finished digging!... Can you recommend any good

cichlid
candidates to stick in there? America's or Africa... So far, I'm

considering
The Jewel Cichlid, Convicts, Jaguar Cichilds and maybe Oscars. Might add

a
really annoying Acei pair (7.5"+) later in the summer...


I've bread Jewels and Oscars in tanks and probably would not want
to try them in an outdoor pond... Convicts are supposedly easy to
breed... to be honest I think I would start out with Texas
Cichlids until I was sure my temps would support others..




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