While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can feed their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is threatening to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about 11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some kind of sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is rated by "UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV. I can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless). Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which is best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which has the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp

Lee,

I think direct sun acts as a solar water heater and the thinner the water
layer over the liner, the more heat that you would expect from the sun. The
biggest factor would be the wet bulb temperature. The wet bulb temperature
is also referred to as the dew point. If the pond temperature is warmer
than the dew point, then it will evaporate like a cup of steaming coffee and
evaporation equals cooling. If the pond temperature is cooler than the dew
point, then you will get condensation from the air, and the pond will warm
toward that dew point temperature. Mad will have higher temperatures than
you do, but I would bet that her pond will stay quite a bit cooler than
yours.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can feed
their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is threatening to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about 11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some kind of sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is rated by "UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV. I can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the
waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless). Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which is best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which has the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp

RTB, we're talking Sunny Florida here. The dew point is usually enormously
high. Mad has higher day-temps than I do (out there in the desert), but she
also has cooler nights. Last night, it went all the way down to a chilly 76
degrees (voice dripping in sarcasam), from a high of 90. When I got home
last night, the water temp was 84; this morning it was 80. I have to try
*some*thing to cool it down a bit! Any ideas?

Lee

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:HCAta.741748$3D1.408386@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

I think direct sun acts as a solar water heater and the thinner the water
layer over the liner, the more heat that you would expect from the sun.
The
biggest factor would be the wet bulb temperature. The wet bulb
temperature
is also referred to as the dew point. If the pond temperature is warmer
than the dew point, then it will evaporate like a cup of steaming coffee
and
evaporation equals cooling. If the pond temperature is cooler than the
dew
point, then you will get condensation from the air, and the pond will warm
toward that dew point temperature. Mad will have higher temperatures than
you do, but I would bet that her pond will stay quite a bit cooler than
yours.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can feed
their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is threatening
to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about 11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some kind of
sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is rated by
"UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV. I can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the
waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless). Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which is
best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which has
the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp

lee, you're right. in the desert we're really hot during the day (air temp
today 90ºF right now) but cooler water temps and cooler at night. the water
temp right now is 70ºF. this morning before the sun came up the air temp was
in the 60s.
mad
--
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday,
lying in hospitals dying of nothing".

From: "Lee Brouillet"
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Date: 6 May 2003 08:29:37 -0500
Subject: Water temp question

RTB, we're talking Sunny Florida here. The dew point is usually enormously
high. Mad has higher day-temps than I do (out there in the desert), but she
also has cooler nights. Last night, it went all the way down to a chilly 76
degrees (voice dripping in sarcasam), from a high of 90. When I got home
last night, the water temp was 84; this morning it was 80. I have to try
*some*thing to cool it down a bit! Any ideas?

Lee

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:HCAta.741748$3D1.408386@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

I think direct sun acts as a solar water heater and the thinner the water
layer over the liner, the more heat that you would expect from the sun.
The
biggest factor would be the wet bulb temperature. The wet bulb
temperature
is also referred to as the dew point. If the pond temperature is warmer
than the dew point, then it will evaporate like a cup of steaming coffee
and
evaporation equals cooling. If the pond temperature is cooler than the
dew
point, then you will get condensation from the air, and the pond will warm
toward that dew point temperature. Mad will have higher temperatures than
you do, but I would bet that her pond will stay quite a bit cooler than
yours.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can feed
their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is threatening
to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about 11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some kind of
sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is rated by
"UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV. I can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the
waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless). Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which is
best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which has
the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp









-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

mad wrote:
lee, you're right. in the desert we're really hot during the day (air temp
today 90ºF right now) but cooler water temps and cooler at night. the water
temp right now is 70ºF. this morning before the sun came up the air temp was
in the 60s.
mad


--
and I thought i was doing good with nite temps in the 40's and day in 70's

Mad get those blowhard texans to blow my way :-O




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico
If it can't be fixed with bailing wire or duct tape
its not worth fixing

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

LOLOL would that i could, but you'd probably only get dirt with the wind.
LOL
mad
--
Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitoes?

From: John Rutz
Organization: NMIX
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 12:20:34 -0600
Subject: Water temp question



mad wrote:
lee, you're right. in the desert we're really hot during the day (air temp
today 90ºF right now) but cooler water temps and cooler at night. the water
temp right now is 70ºF. this morning before the sun came up the air temp was
in the 60s.
mad


--
and I thought i was doing good with nite temps in the 40's and day in 70's

Mad get those blowhard texans to blow my way :-O




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico
If it can't be fixed with bailing wire or duct tape
its not worth fixing

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Lee,

Waterfalls would increase evaporation and give you the most cooling that you
could get naturally. But with the high dew points, you won't be able to get
that much cooling. The only other way that I know to get the temperature
down would be by artificial means, kind of reverse what I do in the winter
(called heating). Cooling by some form of heat exchanger to an air
conditioner, or water chiller might work, but it would be expensive, and I
don't know if it would be absolutely necessary. By August my pond
temperatures reach close to 90, and the only side effect that I have seen is
the fish being more active and more hungry.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
RTB, we're talking Sunny Florida here. The dew point is usually enormously
high. Mad has higher day-temps than I do (out there in the desert), but
she
also has cooler nights. Last night, it went all the way down to a chilly
76
degrees (voice dripping in sarcasam), from a high of 90. When I got home
last night, the water temp was 84; this morning it was 80. I have to try
*some*thing to cool it down a bit! Any ideas?

Lee

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:HCAta.741748$3D1.408386@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

I think direct sun acts as a solar water heater and the thinner the
water
layer over the liner, the more heat that you would expect from the sun.
The
biggest factor would be the wet bulb temperature. The wet bulb
temperature
is also referred to as the dew point. If the pond temperature is warmer
than the dew point, then it will evaporate like a cup of steaming coffee
and
evaporation equals cooling. If the pond temperature is cooler than the
dew
point, then you will get condensation from the air, and the pond will
warm
toward that dew point temperature. Mad will have higher temperatures
than
you do, but I would bet that her pond will stay quite a bit cooler than
yours.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can feed
their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is
threatening
to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about 11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some kind of
sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is rated by
"UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV. I
can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the
waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless).
Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which is
best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which has
the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp

Lee - A chiller could be used, but they are expensive to purchase and run
(have one for my reef tank). The fish will survive without one, as long as
there is good aeration (as the oxygen carrying capacity of water, poor as it
is compared to air, decreases with rising temperature.)
Rich - I have always stopped feeding my Koi when the averaged water temp.
hits 85 degrees.
Do you feed them above this? If so, have you noted any problems??
Happy ponding,
Greg


"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:c4Dua.777334$3D1.424202@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

Waterfalls would increase evaporation and give you the most cooling that
you
could get naturally. But with the high dew points, you won't be able to
get
that much cooling. The only other way that I know to get the temperature
down would be by artificial means, kind of reverse what I do in the winter
(called heating). Cooling by some form of heat exchanger to an air
conditioner, or water chiller might work, but it would be expensive, and I
don't know if it would be absolutely necessary. By August my pond
temperatures reach close to 90, and the only side effect that I have seen
is
the fish being more active and more hungry.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
RTB, we're talking Sunny Florida here. The dew point is usually
enormously
high. Mad has higher day-temps than I do (out there in the desert), but
she
also has cooler nights. Last night, it went all the way down to a chilly
76
degrees (voice dripping in sarcasam), from a high of 90. When I got
home
last night, the water temp was 84; this morning it was 80. I have to try
*some*thing to cool it down a bit! Any ideas?

Lee

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:HCAta.741748$3D1.408386@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

I think direct sun acts as a solar water heater and the thinner the
water
layer over the liner, the more heat that you would expect from the
sun.
The
biggest factor would be the wet bulb temperature. The wet bulb
temperature
is also referred to as the dew point. If the pond temperature is
warmer
than the dew point, then it will evaporate like a cup of steaming
coffee
and
evaporation equals cooling. If the pond temperature is cooler than
the
dew
point, then you will get condensation from the air, and the pond will
warm
toward that dew point temperature. Mad will have higher temperatures
than
you do, but I would bet that her pond will stay quite a bit cooler
than
yours.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can
feed
their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is
threatening
to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about
11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some kind
of
sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is rated
by
"UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV. I
can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the
waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless).
Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which
is
best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which
has
the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp

My fish eat 365 days a year. I find that if they are active, they eat, and
I have not found any problems at high temperatures. I have seen people say
not to feed them at high temperatures, but I have not noticed that they are
not hungry. I don't know where the rule came from, and if I can't find a
good explanation, or come up with some plausible reason, I ignore the rule.
In warm water, the fish tend to be at least as active, and burn more
calories, so where I feed twice a day in the winter, (pond heated to near
70) I increase the feeding to 3 times a day when I can turn off the heaters,
and from about June to November feed 4 times a day. The portion size is the
same at all feedings.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Lee - A chiller could be used, but they are expensive to purchase and run
(have one for my reef tank). The fish will survive without one, as long as
there is good aeration (as the oxygen carrying capacity of water, poor as
it
is compared to air, decreases with rising temperature.)
Rich - I have always stopped feeding my Koi when the averaged water temp.
hits 85 degrees.
Do you feed them above this? If so, have you noted any problems??
Happy ponding,
Greg


"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:c4Dua.777334$3D1.424202@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

Waterfalls would increase evaporation and give you the most cooling that
you
could get naturally. But with the high dew points, you won't be able to
get
that much cooling. The only other way that I know to get the
temperature
down would be by artificial means, kind of reverse what I do in the
winter
(called heating). Cooling by some form of heat exchanger to an air
conditioner, or water chiller might work, but it would be expensive, and
I
don't know if it would be absolutely necessary. By August my pond
temperatures reach close to 90, and the only side effect that I have
seen
is
the fish being more active and more hungry.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
RTB, we're talking Sunny Florida here. The dew point is usually
enormously
high. Mad has higher day-temps than I do (out there in the desert),
but
she
also has cooler nights. Last night, it went all the way down to a
chilly
76
degrees (voice dripping in sarcasam), from a high of 90. When I got
home
last night, the water temp was 84; this morning it was 80. I have to
try
*some*thing to cool it down a bit! Any ideas?

Lee

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:HCAta.741748$3D1.408386@sccrnsc01...
Lee,

I think direct sun acts as a solar water heater and the thinner the
water
layer over the liner, the more heat that you would expect from the
sun.
The
biggest factor would be the wet bulb temperature. The wet bulb
temperature
is also referred to as the dew point. If the pond temperature is
warmer
than the dew point, then it will evaporate like a cup of steaming
coffee
and
evaporation equals cooling. If the pond temperature is cooler than
the
dew
point, then you will get condensation from the air, and the pond
will
warm
toward that dew point temperature. Mad will have higher
temperatures
than
you do, but I would bet that her pond will stay quite a bit cooler
than
yours.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
While some of the folks up North are still wondering if they can
feed
their
fish yet, my water temp is in the mid-80's. The air temp is
threatening
to
reach the 90's this week. The pond only gets full sun from about
11-4
o'clock (at this time of year), so I guess I need to make some
kind
of
sun
shade to shield the pond. The shade cloth I was looking at is
rated
by
"UV
Protection"; in other words, it will shield 50%, 80% and 100% UV.
I
can
shade the pond without bothering the plants (which are all in the
waterfall
area, not the pond where the fish are - which is plantless).
Therefore,
total (100%) blockage of UV will not hurt my plant life. But which
is
best
for the fish? Should I go for the density of the 100%? Also, which
has
the
most influence on the water temp: direct sun or air temp?

Thanks for your input.

--
Lee B.
See my Zone 9 a/b ponds at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dragnp

Is this plausible? The bio-bugs don't work as well at temps over 85F,
therefore feeding the fish when water temps are this high could be
detrimental to your water quality.... and you know me, it's all about
keeping water quality at its best. ;o) ~ jan

On Sat, 10 May 2003 01:19:04 GMT, "RichToyBox" wrote:

My fish eat 365 days a year. I find that if they are active, they eat, and
I have not found any problems at high temperatures. I have seen people say
not to feed them at high temperatures, but I have not noticed that they are
not hungry. I don't know where the rule came from, and if I can't find a
good explanation, or come up with some plausible reason, I ignore the rule.
In warm water, the fish tend to be at least as active, and burn more
calories, so where I feed twice a day in the winter, (pond heated to near
70) I increase the feeding to 3 times a day when I can turn off the heaters,
and from about June to November feed 4 times a day. The portion size is the
same at all feedings.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I don't know. During the summer, I never register any ammonia or nitrites.
Right now, because of a big increase in stocking, I am running a trace of
nitrites, and when spawning occurs, I will see major nitrites. But in
summer, the pond does not show any.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"~ jan" wrote in message
...
Is this plausible? The bio-bugs don't work as well at temps over 85F,
therefore feeding the fish when water temps are this high could be
detrimental to your water quality.... and you know me, it's all about
keeping water quality at its best. ;o) ~ jan

On Sat, 10 May 2003 01:19:04 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

My fish eat 365 days a year. I find that if they are active, they eat,
and
I have not found any problems at high temperatures. I have seen people
say
not to feed them at high temperatures, but I have not noticed that they
are
not hungry. I don't know where the rule came from, and if I can't find a
good explanation, or come up with some plausible reason, I ignore the
rule.
In warm water, the fish tend to be at least as active, and burn more
calories, so where I feed twice a day in the winter, (pond heated to near
70) I increase the feeding to 3 times a day when I can turn off the
heaters,
and from about June to November feed 4 times a day. The portion size is
the
same at all feedings.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website