Hi. I've spent 3 full days on this and still haven't made a decision
so any advice would be SOOOOO appreciated.

I want to build an approximately 1500 gallon pond (min. 1200). The
pond is in a shaded area and at this time, I'm not interested in
keeping koi. If I have any fish at all - perhaps some goldfish or
native minnows. I want frogs. I also have a critter problem here and
will have problems with keeping alot of plants. But I plan to have
some.

OK - My goal is to have a strong/loud waterfall spilling about 2' high
from the pond surface. I want a biofilter in the waterfall head of
about a 45 gallon size.

My theory/desire is to have a nice roar/waterfall by day and be able
to turn it down to basic "keep things alive/healthy" minimum levels by
night/when away & not able to enjoy the pond. I thought of seeing if
there was a variable or 2-speed pump for this, but the only one's I've
found cost a fortune.

So... I guess I'd like 2 pumps. One to run the biofilter 24/7, and
one to turn on for drama to kick the waterfall into high gear when I'm
outside/have guests, etc. I'm figureing this will save me a boat
load of money over running a big pump 24/7 when I really don't need
that.

Since I want a strong/loud waterfall, I first thought of getting a
total of 2400gph pump. Then someone suggested a 3600.

I've been contemplating the pondmaster mag. The 3600 eats 380w. The
2400 eats 265w. 1800 145w, 1200 110w.

I'm stil not quite sure how to calculate head, but I'm figuring the
flexible hose between the pump & the wateroutlet/spill would be about
5-6 feet. So I know that a 2400gph pump won't REALLY be a 2400 when
all is said & done. It would really be 1800.

If I do the 2 pump deal.... How can I figure out the proper size to
keep the pond healthy through the biofilter? I know you can't push
too too much through the filter or it won't work right?

So... Not only am I not sure if I need a total pump of 2400 or 3600.
I'm unclear about the ratio I should split them up with. Say if I
want 3600 total, should I get a 1200 for the biofilter and a 2400 for
the waterfall drama? Or an 1800 + 1800? Or is 3600 total absolutely
ridiculous?

It's just that I saw the perfect waterfall at my local garden center
and they had a 3,000 gph sump style pump running it. It looked
perfect and I'd hate to have less than that look & am worried 2400gph
worth of pump won't pull that off?

This is such a nightmare for me. Hubby's out of town (he's the math
expert of the house). My old preform is empty & ready to be ripped
out. I have the liner and need to order the pumps ASAP cuz I can't
stand looking at this anymore. So I'm anxious to place the order as
my pumps might take at least a week to get here.

What would you do? TIA

The pond needs a pump for the bio of about 750 gph. I would have that run
through the bio 24/7. Add to that the 2400 or 3600 for effect with it
plumbed to spill out over the waterfall but not going through the bio, if
possible. For a big, loud waterfall, get the biggest pump you can afford.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Hi. I've spent 3 full days on this and still haven't made a decision
so any advice would be SOOOOO appreciated.

I want to build an approximately 1500 gallon pond (min. 1200). The
pond is in a shaded area and at this time, I'm not interested in
keeping koi. If I have any fish at all - perhaps some goldfish or
native minnows. I want frogs. I also have a critter problem here and
will have problems with keeping alot of plants. But I plan to have
some.

OK - My goal is to have a strong/loud waterfall spilling about 2' high
from the pond surface. I want a biofilter in the waterfall head of
about a 45 gallon size.

My theory/desire is to have a nice roar/waterfall by day and be able
to turn it down to basic "keep things alive/healthy" minimum levels by
night/when away & not able to enjoy the pond. I thought of seeing if
there was a variable or 2-speed pump for this, but the only one's I've
found cost a fortune.

So... I guess I'd like 2 pumps. One to run the biofilter 24/7, and
one to turn on for drama to kick the waterfall into high gear when I'm
outside/have guests, etc. I'm figureing this will save me a boat
load of money over running a big pump 24/7 when I really don't need
that.

Since I want a strong/loud waterfall, I first thought of getting a
total of 2400gph pump. Then someone suggested a 3600.

I've been contemplating the pondmaster mag. The 3600 eats 380w. The
2400 eats 265w. 1800 145w, 1200 110w.

I'm stil not quite sure how to calculate head, but I'm figuring the
flexible hose between the pump & the wateroutlet/spill would be about
5-6 feet. So I know that a 2400gph pump won't REALLY be a 2400 when
all is said & done. It would really be 1800.

If I do the 2 pump deal.... How can I figure out the proper size to
keep the pond healthy through the biofilter? I know you can't push
too too much through the filter or it won't work right?

So... Not only am I not sure if I need a total pump of 2400 or 3600.
I'm unclear about the ratio I should split them up with. Say if I
want 3600 total, should I get a 1200 for the biofilter and a 2400 for
the waterfall drama? Or an 1800 + 1800? Or is 3600 total absolutely
ridiculous?

It's just that I saw the perfect waterfall at my local garden center
and they had a 3,000 gph sump style pump running it. It looked
perfect and I'd hate to have less than that look & am worried 2400gph
worth of pump won't pull that off?

This is such a nightmare for me. Hubby's out of town (he's the math
expert of the house). My old preform is empty & ready to be ripped
out. I have the liner and need to order the pumps ASAP cuz I can't
stand looking at this anymore. So I'm anxious to place the order as
my pumps might take at least a week to get here.

What would you do? TIA

(Lisa) wrote:

My theory/desire is to have a nice roar/waterfall by day and be able
to turn it down to basic "keep things alive/healthy" minimum levels by
night/when away & not able to enjoy the pond. I thought of seeing if
there was a variable or 2-speed pump for this, but the only one's I've
found cost a fortune.

http://www.bestpondpumps.com/

Not going to find much cheaper than that (initially). If so, I'm sure
someone will chime in. I've no personal experience with this one.

Next up is the Sequence type pumps at $300-500 (USD).

Richtoybox - When you say 750gph, do you mean a 750gph pump or a pump
that would spill 750gph at the HEIGHT (top) of the Falls?

I.e.; The Pondmaster 700gph is 400 at 6 feet.
the 950gph is really 720
The 1200gph is 950

I'm getting so frustrated with this process. Really worried about
investing in the wrong setup. I just want to make sure the pump for
the biofilter is going to be perfect to keep the pond moving and clear
24/7. I guess the 2nd pump for Waterfall drama is less important - or
easier to figure out as it would be more the "bonus" pump and not
really detrimental to the pond.

Hope to get many more opinions. After 3 days of this, I'm about ready
to cry.

Lisa wrote:
Richtoybox - When you say 750gph, do you mean a 750gph pump or a pump
that would spill 750gph at the HEIGHT (top) of the Falls?

I.e.; The Pondmaster 700gph is 400 at 6 feet.
the 950gph is really 720
The 1200gph is 950

I'm getting so frustrated with this process. Really worried about
investing in the wrong setup. I just want to make sure the pump for
the biofilter is going to be perfect to keep the pond moving and clear
24/7. I guess the 2nd pump for Waterfall drama is less important - or
easier to figure out as it would be more the "bonus" pump and not
really detrimental to the pond.

Hope to get many more opinions. After 3 days of this, I'm about ready
to cry.


--

get the bigger pump you can afford even if you pump a little extra water
through the bio filter it wont hurt some remomend 1 x pond volume per
hour some recomend 2x per hour and I am runing pond volume every 4
hours myself right now
all you are trying to do is get the water to the bio bugs if they
dont get it the first round thy'll pick it up on another round remember
they arent just in the filter they are in the whole pond on every
surface plants liner rock fish whatever

relax it s not realy that critical



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico
If it can't be fixed with bailing wire or duct tape
its not worth fixing

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Thanks! I've just been getting alot of warnings that my pump plans are
way too extreme. That I'm wanting to get too big of a system for a
1200ish pond. That a 3600 total pump combo is too much. Though no one
seems to be able to tell me what is bad about the concept. Though I
don't really get any answers as to why it would be bad.

Now I just have to pick a pump combo (brand/type). I sure do like the
concept of the sequence external but hate the idea of having to come
up with a houseing box, where to put it so it's invisible, possible
primer thingy (don't have a clue what that even looks like), and the
issue of hearing the pump. Wonder if I could put it in a rubbermaid
container (hinged lid) whereby the box is buried in the waterfall
mound area to have the lid opening sideways/vertical as opposed to the
lid being horizontal, taking up room & sticking out like a sore thumb.
Or if I could put thick house insulation around it to deaden the
sound. LOL Actually, I just wish I could find pumps with that same
wattage & power and be able to have it IN the water.

Why can't the world be perfect?


get the bigger pump you can afford

Wait a minute! lol I sure get lost easily. Lisa, I just
re-read Rich's post. I think he's saying you only need
a 750 gph for the biofilter and then get another Bigger
pump for the waterfall. These pumps can be IN the
pond.
At least my three Beckett pumps are. I have two
Pondmaster pumps that are on stand-by... in case
I have an outage on Sunday night of a 3 day Holiday!

Unwind ...Lisa. It will all work out just fine.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Thanks! I've just been getting alot of warnings that my pump plans are
way too extreme. That I'm wanting to get too big of a system for a
1200ish pond. That a 3600 total pump combo is too much. Though no one
seems to be able to tell me what is bad about the concept. Though I
don't really get any answers as to why it would be bad.

Now I just have to pick a pump combo (brand/type). I sure do like the
concept of the sequence external but hate the idea of having to come
up with a houseing box, where to put it so it's invisible, possible
primer thingy (don't have a clue what that even looks like), and the
issue of hearing the pump. Wonder if I could put it in a rubbermaid
container (hinged lid) whereby the box is buried in the waterfall
mound area to have the lid opening sideways/vertical as opposed to the
lid being horizontal, taking up room & sticking out like a sore thumb.
Or if I could put thick house insulation around it to deaden the
sound. LOL Actually, I just wish I could find pumps with that same
wattage & power and be able to have it IN the water.

Why can't the world be perfect?


get the bigger pump you can afford

Lisa,

If you decide to go with the Sequence pump, it can be put in the box you
describe, or it can be mounted in a box buried in the ground, if sufficient
drainage is provided, and a nice piece of slate used to cover it. Do not
fill the box with insulation. The motor needs to breathe. It will overheat
and burn up. My sequence is located in my shed with most of the plumbing.
I have to listen, when I go into the shed to be sure it is running. If it
were hidden behind the waterfall, you would never hear it.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Thanks! I've just been getting alot of warnings that my pump plans are
way too extreme. That I'm wanting to get too big of a system for a
1200ish pond. That a 3600 total pump combo is too much. Though no one
seems to be able to tell me what is bad about the concept. Though I
don't really get any answers as to why it would be bad.

Now I just have to pick a pump combo (brand/type). I sure do like the
concept of the sequence external but hate the idea of having to come
up with a houseing box, where to put it so it's invisible, possible
primer thingy (don't have a clue what that even looks like), and the
issue of hearing the pump. Wonder if I could put it in a rubbermaid
container (hinged lid) whereby the box is buried in the waterfall
mound area to have the lid opening sideways/vertical as opposed to the
lid being horizontal, taking up room & sticking out like a sore thumb.
Or if I could put thick house insulation around it to deaden the
sound. LOL Actually, I just wish I could find pumps with that same
wattage & power and be able to have it IN the water.

Why can't the world be perfect?


get the bigger pump you can afford

Lisa wrote:
Thanks! I've just been getting alot of warnings that my pump plans are
way too extreme. That I'm wanting to get too big of a system for a
1200ish pond. That a 3600 total pump combo is too much. Though no one
seems to be able to tell me what is bad about the concept. Though I
don't really get any answers as to why it would be bad.

Now I just have to pick a pump combo (brand/type). I sure do like the
concept of the sequence external but hate the idea of having to come
up with a houseing box, where to put it so it's invisible, possible
primer thingy (don't have a clue what that even looks like), and the
issue of hearing the pump. Wonder if I could put it in a rubbermaid
container (hinged lid) whereby the box is buried in the waterfall
mound area to have the lid opening sideways/vertical as opposed to the
lid being horizontal, taking up room & sticking out like a sore thumb.
Or if I could put thick house insulation around it to deaden the
sound. LOL Actually, I just wish I could find pumps with that same
wattage & power and be able to have it IN the water.

Why can't the world be perfect?



Im useing supreme mag drives they can go in or out

your idea of the box sounds good and you can use inslulation if needed
use the beadboard or expanded foam to give air circulation to keep
things from over heating

--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico
If it can't be fixed with bailing wire or duct tape
its not worth fixing

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Lisa, this is the best buy I can find on the net right now. It's a 2 speed
pump (2400 gph and 5,000 gph) on 2.6 amps (low) for $199.95, including leaf
trap.

http://tinyurl.com/b3le

Your limiting factor will be your piping: don't skimp if you want the
maximum oomph from high speed. No less that 2", 3" would be better.

Lee
"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Hi. I've spent 3 full days on this and still haven't made a decision
so any advice would be SOOOOO appreciated.

I want to build an approximately 1500 gallon pond (min. 1200). The
pond is in a shaded area and at this time, I'm not interested in
keeping koi. If I have any fish at all - perhaps some goldfish or
native minnows. I want frogs. I also have a critter problem here and
will have problems with keeping alot of plants. But I plan to have
some.

OK - My goal is to have a strong/loud waterfall spilling about 2' high
from the pond surface. I want a biofilter in the waterfall head of
about a 45 gallon size.

My theory/desire is to have a nice roar/waterfall by day and be able
to turn it down to basic "keep things alive/healthy" minimum levels by
night/when away & not able to enjoy the pond. I thought of seeing if
there was a variable or 2-speed pump for this, but the only one's I've
found cost a fortune.

So... I guess I'd like 2 pumps. One to run the biofilter 24/7, and
one to turn on for drama to kick the waterfall into high gear when I'm
outside/have guests, etc. I'm figureing this will save me a boat
load of money over running a big pump 24/7 when I really don't need
that.

Since I want a strong/loud waterfall, I first thought of getting a
total of 2400gph pump. Then someone suggested a 3600.

I've been contemplating the pondmaster mag. The 3600 eats 380w. The
2400 eats 265w. 1800 145w, 1200 110w.

I'm stil not quite sure how to calculate head, but I'm figuring the
flexible hose between the pump & the wateroutlet/spill would be about
5-6 feet. So I know that a 2400gph pump won't REALLY be a 2400 when
all is said & done. It would really be 1800.

If I do the 2 pump deal.... How can I figure out the proper size to
keep the pond healthy through the biofilter? I know you can't push
too too much through the filter or it won't work right?

So... Not only am I not sure if I need a total pump of 2400 or 3600.
I'm unclear about the ratio I should split them up with. Say if I
want 3600 total, should I get a 1200 for the biofilter and a 2400 for
the waterfall drama? Or an 1800 + 1800? Or is 3600 total absolutely
ridiculous?

It's just that I saw the perfect waterfall at my local garden center
and they had a 3,000 gph sump style pump running it. It looked
perfect and I'd hate to have less than that look & am worried 2400gph
worth of pump won't pull that off?

This is such a nightmare for me. Hubby's out of town (he's the math
expert of the house). My old preform is empty & ready to be ripped
out. I have the liner and need to order the pumps ASAP cuz I can't
stand looking at this anymore. So I'm anxious to place the order as
my pumps might take at least a week to get here.

What would you do? TIA

Yes, but I just wanted to clarify for sure if he meant to get a 750
gph pump or get a pump that would produce 750 at the top of the
biofilter/falls. Because with the travel (horizontal/vertical) of the
hose from pump to filter, it seems by the time that happens - there
would be about 400 gph going through the filter.



I think he's saying you only need
a 750 gph for the biofilter and then get another Bigger
pump for the waterfall.

"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
Yes, but I just wanted to clarify for sure if he meant to get a 750
gph pump or get a pump that would produce 750 at the top of the
biofilter/falls. Because with the travel (horizontal/vertical) of the
hose from pump to filter, it seems by the time that happens - there
would be about 400 gph going through the filter.



I think he's saying you only need
a 750 gph for the biofilter and then get another Bigger
pump for the waterfall.

I agree...If you have a filter already set up, or a plan for one...buy a
pump that is perfect for that, and consider your water feature separate. You
may even want to oversize your pump and throttle the output back with a ball
valve, or gate valve, so you have room to work with if you need to. You can
then "see" how that pump puts out over your head, and down the falls, and
derive the "water feature pump" size from that. Then buy a pump just for
your feature.

BV.

LOL I'm all over the place! I've read & read about the external
pumps, priming pots, leaf traps, etc. I have a few reservations and
am more leaning to the point of not spending the time to create the
housing, etc. required.

I think I'm going to stick with the pondmaster mags which can go in or
out.

OK - NOW.... I've flipped from using a 45g garbage can to doing this
right and getting a 70g Rubbermaid stock tank. I can pick this up
locally for $54.98.

OK. I will now have:

70g biofilter
2 feet drop of waterfall
1.5-2' stepback from pond edge to fall top lip
1200-1500 pond approx 2' deep

The hose from the pump in the pond will have to travel at least 4 feet
high and 4 feet long. I'm going to use flexible hose so there
shouldn't be any elbows.

So if I get a 750 gph pump just for the biofilter - wouldn't by the
time it got to the source then had to deal with the biofilter -
wouldn't the actual numbers on the 750 gph be greatly reduced? I.e.;
wouldn't I end up spitting out more like 400 gph by the time it spills
out the biofilter?

I'm just ready to make an online purchase and am concerned about what
size to go with that will do the trick to keep a clear pond year
round. I won't have much opportunity to have plants.

Sorry if I'm being a pain, but I appreciate the help.

Lisa wrote:
LOL I'm all over the place! I've read & read about the external
pumps, priming pots, leaf traps, etc. I have a few reservations and
am more leaning to the point of not spending the time to create the
housing, etc. required.

The hose from the pump in the pond will have to travel at least 4 feet
high and 4 feet long. I'm going to use flexible hose so there
shouldn't be any elbows.

So if I get a 750 gph pump just for the biofilter - wouldn't by the
time it got to the source then had to deal with the biofilter -
wouldn't the actual numbers on the 750 gph be greatly reduced? I.e.;
wouldn't I end up spitting out more like 400 gph by the time it spills
out the biofilter?

I'm just ready to make an online purchase and am concerned about what
size to go with that will do the trick to keep a clear pond year
round. I won't have much opportunity to have plants.

Sorry if I'm being a pain, but I appreciate the help.


--
If you step up your hose to 1 1/4 or 1.5 inch (one fitting) from the 1
in output
you shouldnt loose very much in only 4 feet rough calculation drop to
735 gph if even that much remember you only calulate head from pond
water level to hose output there will be so very litle loss in the
hose from the pump[ to water level its incalculatable exept by a physics
major




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico
If it can't be fixed with bailing wire or duct tape
its not worth fixing

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Go with the 3600, it's less that $200 online. I'm waiting for mine,
ordered it from pondliner.com. They were also the only place online I
could find that had 2"x25' rolls of flexible PVC tubing which is all I
needed.

Lee Brouillet wrote:
Lisa, this is the best buy I can find on the net right now. It's a 2 speed
pump (2400 gph and 5,000 gph) on 2.6 amps (low) for $199.95, including leaf
trap.

http://tinyurl.com/b3le

Your limiting factor will be your piping: don't skimp if you want the
maximum oomph from high speed. No less that 2", 3" would be better.

Lee
"Lisa" wrote in message
om...

Hi. I've spent 3 full days on this and still haven't made a decision
so any advice would be SOOOOO appreciated.

I want to build an approximately 1500 gallon pond (min. 1200). The
pond is in a shaded area and at this time, I'm not interested in
keeping koi. If I have any fish at all - perhaps some goldfish or
native minnows. I want frogs. I also have a critter problem here and
will have problems with keeping alot of plants. But I plan to have
some.

OK - My goal is to have a strong/loud waterfall spilling about 2' high
from the pond surface. I want a biofilter in the waterfall head of
about a 45 gallon size.

My theory/desire is to have a nice roar/waterfall by day and be able
to turn it down to basic "keep things alive/healthy" minimum levels by
night/when away & not able to enjoy the pond. I thought of seeing if
there was a variable or 2-speed pump for this, but the only one's I've
found cost a fortune.

So... I guess I'd like 2 pumps. One to run the biofilter 24/7, and
one to turn on for drama to kick the waterfall into high gear when I'm
outside/have guests, etc. I'm figureing this will save me a boat
load of money over running a big pump 24/7 when I really don't need
that.

Since I want a strong/loud waterfall, I first thought of getting a
total of 2400gph pump. Then someone suggested a 3600.

I've been contemplating the pondmaster mag. The 3600 eats 380w. The
2400 eats 265w. 1800 145w, 1200 110w.

I'm stil not quite sure how to calculate head, but I'm figuring the
flexible hose between the pump & the wateroutlet/spill would be about
5-6 feet. So I know that a 2400gph pump won't REALLY be a 2400 when
all is said & done. It would really be 1800.

If I do the 2 pump deal.... How can I figure out the proper size to
keep the pond healthy through the biofilter? I know you can't push
too too much through the filter or it won't work right?

So... Not only am I not sure if I need a total pump of 2400 or 3600.
I'm unclear about the ratio I should split them up with. Say if I
want 3600 total, should I get a 1200 for the biofilter and a 2400 for
the waterfall drama? Or an 1800 + 1800? Or is 3600 total absolutely
ridiculous?

It's just that I saw the perfect waterfall at my local garden center
and they had a 3,000 gph sump style pump running it. It looked
perfect and I'd hate to have less than that look & am worried 2400gph
worth of pump won't pull that off?

This is such a nightmare for me. Hubby's out of town (he's the math
expert of the house). My old preform is empty & ready to be ripped
out. I have the liner and need to order the pumps ASAP cuz I can't
stand looking at this anymore. So I'm anxious to place the order as
my pumps might take at least a week to get here.

What would you do? TIA