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Old 09-05-2003, 07:45 PM
Sam Hopkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

I've learned a lot over the past few years about algae, both by dealing with
aquariums and also by owning a large pond (6 acres). I thought I'd pass this
information along.

Algae is like any other living thing out there. It needs food and nutrients.
Food comes in the form of ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. If you didn't
know, anything you put into the pond that is organic (food, topsoil, dying
plant leaves, poop from fish, etc) will decompose and emit ammonia. Bacteria
will convert this ammonia which is toxic to fish into nitrite (which is
still toxic) and other bacteria will convert this into nitrate (which is not
toxic to fish). All three can be used by plants and they are their food
source. And incase you didn't know algae is a plant.

Algae is just like anything else living, it also needs trace minerals. Could
you survive without vitamins and minerals? Nope. Trace minerals to plants
are things like iron (real important), boron, calcium, magnesium, etc. These
elements are in the water you get out of your tap or out of the ground (if
you have a well) or in the miracle grow stick you add. Topsoil also contains
trace minerals. When you change any of your pond water this is why you may
see a renewed growth spurt in your algae. This is because there may not have
been any iron left in the water and this was limiting it's growth. Then you
change the water and add new water which contains iron and algae now has
iron to grow. Different people have different concentrations of minerals in
their water. This is why one pond owner might never have an algae problem
while another just can't seem to get rid of it. Most resort to changing
their water in an effort to reduce the nitrate level but instead it just
keeps the mineral level replenished.

One thing that pond owners aren't accustomed to is the idea of "water
column." Any nutrients and minerals that enter the water column will become
food for algae. It's important to keep nutrients and minerals out of the
water column to stop algae. It's possible to have a layer of miracle grow
and fish food as your substrate but have no algae. If no water is flowing to
stir the miracle grow into the water column algae can't get it. Again you
may notice that when you clean your pond which has a gravel substrate you
get an algae bloom. This is because all the nutrients and minerals that were
locked up in the gravel are now all stirred up and in your water column. Now
that you understand about the water column you can understand that if you
have a potted plant full of topsoil (rich in organics and minerals) and 15
miracle grow sticks in it and a water current is passing over it you can see
that you are loading your water with both minerals and nutrients.

Some people utilize veggie filters to help keep their nutrients and minerals
down low. A veggie filter is a box filled with other plants (or algae) that
are busy sucking up the nutrients and minerals from the water column. Pond
water is pumped into this box. The water is then passed back into the pond
depleted of minerals and nutrients. A successful veggie filter has no dirt
and only submerged plants. If you have dirt in your veggie filter the plant
will remove nutrients from the dirt not the water column AND the dirt will
add more nutrients and minerals back into the water column as water flows
over it. Plants do not need dirt to grow. They merely use it as a source of
nutrients and minerals (terrestrial plants also use it to keep their roots
wet and to anchored themselves down). It is their food source. In a veggie
filter you want the plant to use the water column as a food source.
Submerged stem plants are built to remove nutrients from the water column
via their leaves. Some grow roots but this is only to anchor them down. If
you have emerged bog plants in your veggie filter you'd be better off
replacing them with stemmed submerged plants because the water column
nutrients must pass into the substrate to reach the roots of your bog plants
to be removed. With submerged stem plants water must merely pass by the
plant's leaves to be absorbed.

Plants also need a carbon source. They can use sodium carbonate that is
located in the water by splitting the atom. This is why your water hardness
(KH) drops over time (and your PH drops) if you don't change the water.
Plants prefer CO2 as a source of carbon. If you didn't know, CO2 is the fizz
in soda pop. A common trick that pond owners do is use a fountain or
waterfall to "shake" the water up and bubble out all of the CO2 from the
water to limit algae growth. You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing. (fountains and waterfalls also add oxygen
to the water). If you have completely submerged plants they will get their
CO2 from the water. If you have low hardness in the water and are using a
fountain or waterfall they'll probably die or at the least won't do as well
as they could because there will not be any carbon source available. Plants
that are emerged get their CO2 from the air.

Lots of people get pea soup water. The best way to control it is to let it
go and not add any new water which will readd minerals. You must however act
to limit the source of nitrate. After time the mineral and nitrate source
will be depleted and the algae will die.

It's funny because in the small pond world no-one wants algae and they want
sparkling clear water. In the large pond world people want pea green water
because it's required for the chain of life. In the large pond world people
actually dump bags of fertilizer into the water. Your fish will grow much
faster if your water is green because more food will be available to them.
In a large pond algae in the water feeds bugs and daphnia. These in turn
feed your smaller fish which in turn feed your bigger fish. Without algae in
the water of a large pond there would be no food source. This is why
quarries that fill with water have crystal clear water and are devoid of
life. There is no food source for algae and thus no food source for the
chain of life.

Hope this helps.

Sam



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Old 09-05-2003, 07:45 PM
Szpond
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

Sam,
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Cathy
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Old 09-05-2003, 08:08 PM
John Rutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?



Sam Hopkins wrote:
I've learned a lot over the past few years about algae, both by dealing with
aquariums and also by owning a large pond (6 acres). I thought I'd pass this
information along.
SNIP
Plants also need a carbon source. They can use sodium carbonate that is
located in the water by splitting the atom. This is why your water hardness
(KH) drops over time (and your PH drops) if you don't change the water.
Plants prefer CO2 as a source of carbon. If you didn't know, CO2 is the fizz
in soda pop. A common trick that pond owners do is use a fountain or
waterfall to "shake" the water up and bubble out all of the CO2 from the
water to limit algae growth. You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing.
Hope this helps.

Sam



odd reasoning to me here now I have a waterfall, and two
"fountains" plus an outlet pipe in the pond,
all three cause the water as you say to shake up
The greatest growth of string algae and also the only growth of algae
is where the water flows the fastest Ie: the foutains, water fall
and outlet

so if you are right ??????????????

--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

  #4   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 08:08 PM
Sam Hopkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

John,

Algae is a strange thing isn't it? Just because you aerate your water
doesn't mean there's no CO2 (or carbon) in it, some still exists. Nor does
it mean that with aeration you wont have algae. I would think that your pond
has very low CO2 and this area of heavy current would be the place where the
CO2 is the highest concentration because it would be delivered to or flow by
the algae at a high speed. Sort of the same effect as sucking hot coffee
through a straw, the heat gets concentrated to an area. At other areas the
current is slower and thus less carbon is delivered to a pinpoint area.

Sam

"John Rutz" wrote in message
...


Sam Hopkins wrote:
I've learned a lot over the past few years about algae, both by dealing

with
aquariums and also by owning a large pond (6 acres). I thought I'd pass

this
information along.
SNIP
Plants also need a carbon source. They can use sodium carbonate that is
located in the water by splitting the atom. This is why your water

hardness
(KH) drops over time (and your PH drops) if you don't change the water.
Plants prefer CO2 as a source of carbon. If you didn't know, CO2 is the

fizz
in soda pop. A common trick that pond owners do is use a fountain or
waterfall to "shake" the water up and bubble out all of the CO2 from the
water to limit algae growth. You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing.
Hope this helps.

Sam



odd reasoning to me here now I have a waterfall, and two
"fountains" plus an outlet pipe in the pond,
all three cause the water as you say to shake up
The greatest growth of string algae and also the only growth of algae
is where the water flows the fastest Ie: the foutains, water fall
and outlet

so if you are right ??????????????

--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com



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Old 09-05-2003, 09:08 PM
John Rutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?



Sam Hopkins wrote:
John,

Algae is a strange thing isn't it? Just because you aerate your water
doesn't mean there's no CO2 (or carbon) in it, some still exists. Nor does
it mean that with aeration you wont have algae. I would think that your pond
has very low CO2 and this area of heavy current would be the place where the
CO2 is the highest concentration because it would be delivered to or flow by
the algae at a high speed. Sort of the same effect as sucking hot coffee
through a straw, the heat gets concentrated to an area. At other areas the
current is slower and thus less carbon is delivered to a pinpoint area.

Sam

ah then the high concetration of CO2 in our water doesnt make it into my pond?, somewhere between th

pump and pond (direct 1 in line) I loose the co2


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com



  #6   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 09:20 PM
Sam Hopkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

Your water will always contain co2 but it will be lower in concentration if
you aerate. Do a test. Measure your KH and your PH after your fountains and
waterfalls have been off for a day and then use these to calculate your CO2
with the chart at
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm . Then turn your
fountains and waterfall on for a day, retest and recompare to the chart.
You'll see your Co2 level will have dropped.

Sam

"John Rutz" wrote in message
...


Sam Hopkins wrote:
John,

Algae is a strange thing isn't it? Just because you aerate your

water
doesn't mean there's no CO2 (or carbon) in it, some still exists. Nor

does
it mean that with aeration you wont have algae. I would think that your

pond
has very low CO2 and this area of heavy current would be the place where

the
CO2 is the highest concentration because it would be delivered to or

flow by
the algae at a high speed. Sort of the same effect as sucking hot coffee
through a straw, the heat gets concentrated to an area. At other areas

the
current is slower and thus less carbon is delivered to a pinpoint area.

Sam

ah then the high concetration of CO2 in our water doesnt make it into my

pond?, somewhere between th
pump and pond (direct 1 in line) I loose the co2


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com



  #7   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 09:56 PM
John Rutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?



Sam Hopkins wrote:
Your water will always contain co2 but it will be lower in concentration if
you aerate. Do a test. Measure your KH and your PH after your fountains and
waterfalls have been off for a day and then use these to calculate your CO2
with the chart at
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm . Then turn your
fountains and waterfall on for a day, retest and recompare to the chart.
You'll see your Co2 level will have dropped.

Sam

actualy I already had those numbers


out of the tap gh 8 Kh 9 Ph 8.5 so co2 = 0.854



pond w pumps running gh 8 kh 9 ph 8.0 co2 = 2.7




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

  #8   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 10:08 PM
Sam Hopkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

What's your pond water at after not running your fountains and waterfall for
a day? I wouldn't expect much CO2 in water from the tap.


"John Rutz" wrote in message
...


Sam Hopkins wrote:
Your water will always contain co2 but it will be lower in concentration

if
you aerate. Do a test. Measure your KH and your PH after your fountains

and
waterfalls have been off for a day and then use these to calculate your

CO2
with the chart at
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm . Then turn your
fountains and waterfall on for a day, retest and recompare to the chart.
You'll see your Co2 level will have dropped.

Sam

actualy I already had those numbers


out of the tap gh 8 Kh 9 Ph 8.5 so co2 = 0.854



pond w pumps running gh 8 kh 9 ph 8.0 co2 = 2.7




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com



  #9   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 10:32 PM
John Rutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?



Sam Hopkins wrote:
What's your pond water at after not running your fountains and waterfall for
a day? I wouldn't expect much CO2 in water from the tap.


a side effect of a deep well is lots of CO2 , our tap water looks like a
glass of 7 up when you pour it
z



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

  #10   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 11:32 PM
John Rutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?



Sam Hopkins wrote:
What's your pond water at after not running your fountains and waterfall for
a day? I wouldn't expect much CO2 in water from the tap.


well maybe you are right I jst tested my indoor pond which has no aeriation and it came

out to 1400000 ppm


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

before you criticise someone
walk a mile in thier shoes
that way when you criticise them
your a mile away and have thier shoes

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com



  #11   Report Post  
Old 10-05-2003, 12:32 AM
GD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

"Sam Hopkins" wrote:

I've learned a lot over the past few years about algae, both by dealing with
aquariums and also by owning a large pond (6 acres). I thought I'd pass this
information along.

Algae is like any other living thing out there. It needs food and nutrients.
Food comes in the form of ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. If you didn't
know, anything you put into the pond that is organic (food, topsoil, dying
plant leaves, poop from fish, etc) will decompose and emit ammonia. Bacteria
will convert this ammonia which is toxic to fish into nitrite (which is
still toxic) and other bacteria will convert this into nitrate (which is not
toxic to fish). All three can be used by plants and they are their food
source. And incase you didn't know algae is a plant.

Algae is just like anything else living, it also needs trace minerals. Could
you survive without vitamins and minerals? Nope. Trace minerals to plants
are things like iron (real important), boron, calcium, magnesium, etc. These
elements are in the water you get out of your tap or out of the ground (if
you have a well) or in the miracle grow stick you add. Topsoil also contains
trace minerals. When you change any of your pond water this is why you may
see a renewed growth spurt in your algae. This is because there may not have
been any iron left in the water and this was limiting it's growth. Then you
change the water and add new water which contains iron and algae now has
iron to grow. Different people have different concentrations of minerals in
their water. This is why one pond owner might never have an algae problem
while another just can't seem to get rid of it. Most resort to changing
their water in an effort to reduce the nitrate level but instead it just
keeps the mineral level replenished.


Although you are correct , you leave out something that is very
important regarding algae: it is well-documented that most algal
blooms are caused by excessive phosphorus. This is why the U.S.
federal government began regulating phosphates in detergents some
years back. Any nutrient can be a limiting factor in plant or algae
growth. In the case of freshwater, phosphates are almost invariably
at the top of the list. When phosphorus levels are high, the next
limiting factors are generally not reached until well into a
full-scale bloom.

One thing that pond owners aren't accustomed to is the idea of "water
column." Any nutrients and minerals that enter the water column will become
food for algae. It's important to keep nutrients and minerals out of the
water column to stop algae. It's possible to have a layer of miracle grow
and fish food as your substrate but have no algae. If no water is flowing to
stir the miracle grow into the water column algae can't get it. Again you
may notice that when you clean your pond which has a gravel substrate you
get an algae bloom. This is because all the nutrients and minerals that were
locked up in the gravel are now all stirred up and in your water column. Now
that you understand about the water column you can understand that if you
have a potted plant full of topsoil (rich in organics and minerals) and 15
miracle grow sticks in it and a water current is passing over it you can see
that you are loading your water with both minerals and nutrients.


Flow contributes to mixing of nutrients, surely. However, even
without a current, nutrients and minerals will enter the water column
from sediments, unless a physical or chemical barrier exists.

Some people utilize veggie filters to help keep their nutrients and minerals
down low. A veggie filter is a box filled with other plants (or algae) that
are busy sucking up the nutrients and minerals from the water column. Pond
water is pumped into this box. The water is then passed back into the pond
depleted of minerals and nutrients. A successful veggie filter has no dirt
and only submerged plants. If you have dirt in your veggie filter the plant
will remove nutrients from the dirt not the water column AND the dirt will
add more nutrients and minerals back into the water column as water flows
over it. Plants do not need dirt to grow. They merely use it as a source of
nutrients and minerals (terrestrial plants also use it to keep their roots
wet and to anchored themselves down). It is their food source. In a veggie
filter you want the plant to use the water column as a food source.
Submerged stem plants are built to remove nutrients from the water column
via their leaves. Some grow roots but this is only to anchor them down. If
you have emerged bog plants in your veggie filter you'd be better off
replacing them with stemmed submerged plants because the water column
nutrients must pass into the substrate to reach the roots of your bog plants
to be removed. With submerged stem plants water must merely pass by the
plant's leaves to be absorbed.


Different submersed species exhibit different abilities to absorb
nutrients from the water column. Most are relatively slow-growing,
and thus reduce nutrients at relatively low rates. There are numerous
emergent species that take up nutrients much faster. The idea here is
that the roots do the sucking. There needn't be substrates to pass
water through for such plants to be exceptional phosphate (and other
nutrient) filters.

Plants also need a carbon source. They can use sodium carbonate that is
located in the water by splitting the atom. This is why your water hardness
(KH) drops over time (and your PH drops) if you don't change the water.
Plants prefer CO2 as a source of carbon. If you didn't know, CO2 is the fizz
in soda pop. A common trick that pond owners do is use a fountain or
waterfall to "shake" the water up and bubble out all of the CO2 from the
water to limit algae growth. You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing. (fountains and waterfalls also add oxygen
to the water). If you have completely submerged plants they will get their
CO2 from the water. If you have low hardness in the water and are using a
fountain or waterfall they'll probably die or at the least won't do as well
as they could because there will not be any carbon source available. Plants
that are emerged get their CO2 from the air.


High concentrations of carbon dioxide are harmful to fish, and can be
lethal if dissolved oxygen is low. Aeration keeps up the oxygen
levels, and does assist in reducing excess carbon. However, all the
carbon in the world will not support an algal bloom if there is little
phosphorus available. Submersed plant growth may be limited by carbon
concentrations in the water, emergent and floating-leaved plant growth
is not.

On the other hand, in ponds with already low concentrations of carbon
(as might occur with a veggie filter filled with submersed plants),
aeration will increase carbon concentrations. This is why algae and
plants do best near waterfalls and fountains in some ponds.

Lots of people get pea soup water. The best way to control it is to let it
go and not add any new water which will readd minerals. You must however act
to limit the source of nitrate. After time the mineral and nitrate source
will be depleted and the algae will die.


It's not the nitrate.


It's funny because in the small pond world no-one wants algae and they want
sparkling clear water. In the large pond world people want pea green water
because it's required for the chain of life. In the large pond world people
actually dump bags of fertilizer into the water. Your fish will grow much
faster if your water is green because more food will be available to them.
In a large pond algae in the water feeds bugs and daphnia. These in turn
feed your smaller fish which in turn feed your bigger fish. Without algae in
the water of a large pond there would be no food source. This is why
quarries that fill with water have crystal clear water and are devoid of
life. There is no food source for algae and thus no food source for the
chain of life.


Note: large pond owners do promote algal blooms by adding bags of
fertilizer: super- or triple phosphate. Rarely is there a need to
add nitrogen or other compounds.

Hope this helps.

Sam



  #12   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2003, 06:57 PM
~ jan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

GD replies to Sam's post on algae:

Although you are correct , you leave out something that is very
important regarding algae: it is well-documented that most algal
blooms are caused by excessive phosphorus.


I agree, and rarely does most tap water (city treated) have high amounts of
phosphorus. It not just understanding algae, it's understanding the
difference between the different types of algae and their relationships
with each other. See: Green Water at
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html

Flow contributes to mixing of nutrients, surely. However, even
without a current, nutrients and minerals will enter the water column
from sediments, unless a physical or chemical barrier exists.


Yea, it's called diffusion.

You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing.


On the other hand, in ponds with already low concentrations of carbon
(as might occur with a veggie filter filled with submersed plants),
aeration will increase carbon concentrations. This is why algae and
plants do best near waterfalls and fountains in some ponds.


Course this could also be just because the koi can't reach it to remove it,
so it just *seems* like that is where the best growth is. At least that's
my theory regarding my ponds. ;o) ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
  #13   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2003, 07:56 PM
John Rutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?



~ jan wrote:
GD replies to Sam's post on algae:



Although you are correct , you leave out something that is very
important regarding algae: it is well-documented that most algal
blooms are caused by excessive phosphorus.



I agree, and rarely does most tap water (city treated) have high amounts of
phosphorus. It not just understanding algae, it's understanding the
difference between the different types of algae and their relationships
with each other. See: Green Water at
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html


Flow contributes to mixing of nutrients, surely. However, even
without a current, nutrients and minerals will enter the water column


from sediments, unless a physical or chemical barrier exists.


Yea, it's called diffusion.


You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing.



On the other hand, in ponds with already low concentrations of carbon
(as might occur with a veggie filter filled with submersed plants),
aeration will increase carbon concentrations. This is why algae and
plants do best near waterfalls and fountains in some ponds.



Course this could also be just because the koi can't reach it to remove it,
so it just *seems* like that is where the best growth is. At least that's
my theory regarding my ponds. ;o) ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



--

yup egzactly



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

  #14   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2003, 06:08 AM
GD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

~ jan wrote:

GD replies to Sam's post on algae:


Although you are correct , you leave out something that is very
important regarding algae: it is well-documented that most algal
blooms are caused by excessive phosphorus.


I agree, and rarely does most tap water (city treated) have high amounts of
phosphorus. It not just understanding algae, it's understanding the
difference between the different types of algae and their relationships
with each other. See: Green Water at
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html


A single dose of tap water will not support an algal bloom. Repeated
topping off ponds without partial water changes results in increased
concentrations of chemicals that do not escape as gases, including
phosphorus.

The theory put forward at the website
http: //www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html
(heterotrophic bacteria producing antibiotics that kill algae) is
questionable. If such chemicals are produced, it is possible that
bluegreen algae would be susceptible (certain antibiotics have been
used to control bluegreen algae). However, in many cases, algal
blooms are not caused by bluegreens, but green or other groups of
algae that are not affected by antibiotics (they are eurkaryotic
organisms, rather than prokaryotic, on which antibiotics may work).
The aquaculture industry uses beneficial bacteria in intensive fish
culture to control excess nutrients and algae. It is a practice of
competitive exclusion: make conditions more conducive to beneficial
bacteria, and they will outcompete any algae for nutrients, thereby
controlling green water. Although not always the case, in most
instances it always comes back to the same thing: too much
phosphorus, not enough competition for the algae.

Flow contributes to mixing of nutrients, surely. However, even
without a current, nutrients and minerals will enter the water column
from sediments, unless a physical or chemical barrier exists.


Yea, it's called diffusion.


Technically, it leaches. Once it has leached, it then diffuses. I
know, I know, splitting hairs. But...an interesting application with
some benefits comes from this. In research tanks, where algal growth
may compromise submersed aquatic plant growth, controlled leaching
reduces nutrient loads and avert blooms. Control is achieved by
fertilizing and soaking in water contained separate from the tank,
generally a bucket. Wait 24 hours, change the water, and replace with
fresh water. Wait another 24 hours. Much of the excess fertilizer
leaches into the bucket water. Place the plants back in the tank, or
pond. Although some nutrients will continue to leach into the water
from the substrate, the load is much reduced and less likely to
support a bloom. This works with soil and clay substrates. It does
not work well with sand, and I have not tested with gravel.

You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing.


On the other hand, in ponds with already low concentrations of carbon
(as might occur with a veggie filter filled with submersed plants),
aeration will increase carbon concentrations. This is why algae and
plants do best near waterfalls and fountains in some ponds.


Course this could also be just because the koi can't reach it to remove it,
so it just *seems* like that is where the best growth is. At least that's
my theory regarding my ponds. ;o) ~ jan


Good theory. And likely fact. Many fishless ponds, especially those
well-stocked with submersed plants, also sport greater algal/plant
growth around fountains and falls, due to input of atmospheric carbon
dioxide.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website


  #15   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2003, 11:20 AM
Just Me \Koi\
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do you understand about algae?

I am sooooooooooo confused! What does all this mean? In ordinary English
language?

Not just your response GD, but the entire thread has me lost.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"GD" wrote in message
...
~ jan wrote:

GD replies to Sam's post on algae:


Although you are correct , you leave out something that is very
important regarding algae: it is well-documented that most algal
blooms are caused by excessive phosphorus.


I agree, and rarely does most tap water (city treated) have high amounts

of
phosphorus. It not just understanding algae, it's understanding the
difference between the different types of algae and their relationships
with each other. See: Green Water at
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html


A single dose of tap water will not support an algal bloom. Repeated
topping off ponds without partial water changes results in increased
concentrations of chemicals that do not escape as gases, including
phosphorus.

The theory put forward at the website
http: //www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html
(heterotrophic bacteria producing antibiotics that kill algae) is
questionable. If such chemicals are produced, it is possible that
bluegreen algae would be susceptible (certain antibiotics have been
used to control bluegreen algae). However, in many cases, algal
blooms are not caused by bluegreens, but green or other groups of
algae that are not affected by antibiotics (they are eurkaryotic
organisms, rather than prokaryotic, on which antibiotics may work).
The aquaculture industry uses beneficial bacteria in intensive fish
culture to control excess nutrients and algae. It is a practice of
competitive exclusion: make conditions more conducive to beneficial
bacteria, and they will outcompete any algae for nutrients, thereby
controlling green water. Although not always the case, in most
instances it always comes back to the same thing: too much
phosphorus, not enough competition for the algae.

Flow contributes to mixing of nutrients, surely. However, even
without a current, nutrients and minerals will enter the water column
from sediments, unless a physical or chemical barrier exists.


Yea, it's called diffusion.


Technically, it leaches. Once it has leached, it then diffuses. I
know, I know, splitting hairs. But...an interesting application with
some benefits comes from this. In research tanks, where algal growth
may compromise submersed aquatic plant growth, controlled leaching
reduces nutrient loads and avert blooms. Control is achieved by
fertilizing and soaking in water contained separate from the tank,
generally a bucket. Wait 24 hours, change the water, and replace with
fresh water. Wait another 24 hours. Much of the excess fertilizer
leaches into the bucket water. Place the plants back in the tank, or
pond. Although some nutrients will continue to leach into the water
from the substrate, the load is much reduced and less likely to
support a bloom. This works with soil and clay substrates. It does
not work well with sand, and I have not tested with gravel.

You'll notice that around fountains there
usually isn't any algae growing.


On the other hand, in ponds with already low concentrations of carbon
(as might occur with a veggie filter filled with submersed plants),
aeration will increase carbon concentrations. This is why algae and
plants do best near waterfalls and fountains in some ponds.


Course this could also be just because the koi can't reach it to remove

it,
so it just *seems* like that is where the best growth is. At least that's
my theory regarding my ponds. ;o) ~ jan


Good theory. And likely fact. Many fishless ponds, especially those
well-stocked with submersed plants, also sport greater algal/plant
growth around fountains and falls, due to input of atmospheric carbon
dioxide.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website




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