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#1
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disaster narrowly averted
I have these recurring nightmares about needing to
rescue koi that are dying in truly strange ways. The other morning my nightmares sort of intersected reality. When I stocked my koi pond, I put in about six koi, because I did not want it overstocked in case something went wrong. I figure with 1500 gallons, they would be fine. Problem is they spawned roughly 30 babies and I have not had the heart to take the babies out yet, and they are getting bigger each year. The pond is split into an upper and lower part with a waterfall in between. I also comitted a general no-no which is to have a pretty high plant load in the pond as well. The upper pond works as a vegetable filter, and the water stays very clear, but the plants, of course, consume oxygen at night. Over the course of the winter, my pump's water volume decreased by probably a factor of five. It happened so slowly that I really did not realize how bad it had gotten. I would take it out and clear stuff that had visibly gotten past the skimmer and lodged in the pump. But I did not realize that hard little seed-like things were getting lodged in the slots that drive the water up into the outtake, and I could not see them there. So I would look at the pump, see that it was clean, and never really clue into the fact that somehow it did not have the water flow it used to have. I think the decreased trickle allowed the oxygen volume to drop in the lower pond, because that pond is fundamentally overstocked and the upper one is only available as an oxygen reservior if the pump is working well enough. I don't know exactly *why* but I started having issues with the pump blowing the ground fault detector. I have zero idea why that happened, but one night it must have blown just after I went to bed. I woke up to find all the fish, of course, gasing at the surface. Most of them were distressed but still mobile and reactive. The largest one was, well, almost dead. Its eyes were glassy and it was unresponsive when touched. It did finally swim away but only to end up on its side with its head partly in the skimmer. I had to go to work. I got the pump started, hoped the daylight would help oxygenate the pond and somewhat unhopefully hoped for the best. I left work early to go home, fully expecting the big guy to be dead, and at least partly expecting many or all to be dead. But when I got back, the big guy had recovered and was swimming along happily. I ripped out a bunch of plants. Added some large reserve oxygenation with an air pump, discovered the blockage in my main water pump, and then decided to wait to remove the extra stock. I *REALLY* need to make myself do that. I am hoping I can donate the babies to my local Bottanic Gardens. Anyhow, do you guys run plants in your koi ponds? Many people say koi will destroy them, but that is just BS. I have lots of plants that coexist with my koi, but I am beginning to question the wisdom of keeping them. doug |
#2
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disaster narrowly averted
It isnt the plants that are above the water that remove oxygen at night. it is the
algae in the water and especially when the water is hot and not holding much oxygen period. the really big issue is rotting organic matter. and that will eat up oxygen really fast. when the pump and/or the air pump quits there is no oxygen or oxygenated water coming into the system and the bacteria working on the organic load uses up the oxygen. If you have 1 12" big air stone run by a big air pump you wont have any kind of problem even in hot weather. Ingrid (Doug Quarnstrom) wrote: I ripped out a bunch of plants. Added some large reserve oxygenation with an air pump, discovered the blockage in my main water pump, and then decided to wait to remove the extra stock. I *REALLY* need to make myself do that. I am hoping I can donate the babies to my local Bottanic Gardens. Anyhow, do you guys run plants in your koi ponds? Many people say koi will destroy them, but that is just BS. I have lots of plants that coexist with my koi, but I am beginning to question the wisdom of keeping them. doug |
#3
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disaster narrowly averted
One method of adding oxygen in this type of emergency is the addition of hydrogen peroxide. Add about a pint per 1000 gallons, and wait a few minutes for the fish to come around, and if they are still sluggish, add another pint. The totally underwater plants like anacharis are called oxygenators, but they are net oxygen consumers, using oxygen at night and on dark and cloudy days. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Doug Quarnstrom" wrote in message ... I have these recurring nightmares about needing to rescue koi that are dying in truly strange ways. The other morning my nightmares sort of intersected reality. When I stocked my koi pond, I put in about six koi, because I did not want it overstocked in case something went wrong. I figure with 1500 gallons, they would be fine. Problem is they spawned roughly 30 babies and I have not had the heart to take the babies out yet, and they are getting bigger each year. The pond is split into an upper and lower part with a waterfall in between. I also comitted a general no-no which is to have a pretty high plant load in the pond as well. The upper pond works as a vegetable filter, and the water stays very clear, but the plants, of course, consume oxygen at night. Over the course of the winter, my pump's water volume decreased by probably a factor of five. It happened so slowly that I really did not realize how bad it had gotten. I would take it out and clear stuff that had visibly gotten past the skimmer and lodged in the pump. But I did not realize that hard little seed-like things were getting lodged in the slots that drive the water up into the outtake, and I could not see them there. So I would look at the pump, see that it was clean, and never really clue into the fact that somehow it did not have the water flow it used to have. I think the decreased trickle allowed the oxygen volume to drop in the lower pond, because that pond is fundamentally overstocked and the upper one is only available as an oxygen reservior if the pump is working well enough. I don't know exactly *why* but I started having issues with the pump blowing the ground fault detector. I have zero idea why that happened, but one night it must have blown just after I went to bed. I woke up to find all the fish, of course, gasing at the surface. Most of them were distressed but still mobile and reactive. The largest one was, well, almost dead. Its eyes were glassy and it was unresponsive when touched. It did finally swim away but only to end up on its side with its head partly in the skimmer. I had to go to work. I got the pump started, hoped the daylight would help oxygenate the pond and somewhat unhopefully hoped for the best. I left work early to go home, fully expecting the big guy to be dead, and at least partly expecting many or all to be dead. But when I got back, the big guy had recovered and was swimming along happily. I ripped out a bunch of plants. Added some large reserve oxygenation with an air pump, discovered the blockage in my main water pump, and then decided to wait to remove the extra stock. I *REALLY* need to make myself do that. I am hoping I can donate the babies to my local Bottanic Gardens. Anyhow, do you guys run plants in your koi ponds? Many people say koi will destroy them, but that is just BS. I have lots of plants that coexist with my koi, but I am beginning to question the wisdom of keeping them. doug |
#4
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disaster narrowly averted
Anyhow, do you guys run plants in your koi ponds? Many people say koi will destroy them, but that is just BS. I have lots of plants that coexist with my koi, but I am beginning to question the wisdom of keeping them. doug -- I keep plants in my pond with the koi with no problems what happened to you sounds more like it was cause by your pump problem with the over stocking you have causing a amonia buildup John Rutz Z5 New Mexico good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad judgement see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
#5
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disaster narrowly averted
That was part of "My Big Fluke Fiasco" a couple of years ago: passed by the
pond on my way to work one morning and my 2 largest fish were floating, dead. I was also having a "mystery algae" outbreak (similar to, but worse than the one I just got through). Whereas the fish DID have flukes, I don't think that's what killed them: the lack of O2 was the initial culprit. I purchased a 4-airstone manifold from AES with a pump appropriately sized for my pond. It's on a separate circuit breaker from the rest of the pond stuff, so even when I shut the system down for maintenance, the air still blows. When the water warms, it doesn't hold as much O2 as cooler water does. The fish are growing, and eating more. It's a cruel twist Mother Nature puts on us: as the fish require more oxygen, she decreases its availability. This is one of my two "soap boxes": (1) add more O2, and (2) know the actual amount of water in your pond. Neither one of these can be emphasized enough. You're very lucky to have caught it in time. I wish I knew then what I know now . . . Lee "Doug Quarnstrom" wrote in message ... I have these recurring nightmares about needing to rescue koi that are dying in truly strange ways. The other morning my nightmares sort of intersected reality. When I stocked my koi pond, I put in about six koi, because I did not want it overstocked in case something went wrong. I figure with 1500 gallons, they would be fine. Problem is they spawned roughly 30 babies and I have not had the heart to take the babies out yet, and they are getting bigger each year. The pond is split into an upper and lower part with a waterfall in between. I also comitted a general no-no which is to have a pretty high plant load in the pond as well. The upper pond works as a vegetable filter, and the water stays very clear, but the plants, of course, consume oxygen at night. Over the course of the winter, my pump's water volume decreased by probably a factor of five. It happened so slowly that I really did not realize how bad it had gotten. I would take it out and clear stuff that had visibly gotten past the skimmer and lodged in the pump. But I did not realize that hard little seed-like things were getting lodged in the slots that drive the water up into the outtake, and I could not see them there. So I would look at the pump, see that it was clean, and never really clue into the fact that somehow it did not have the water flow it used to have. I think the decreased trickle allowed the oxygen volume to drop in the lower pond, because that pond is fundamentally overstocked and the upper one is only available as an oxygen reservior if the pump is working well enough. I don't know exactly *why* but I started having issues with the pump blowing the ground fault detector. I have zero idea why that happened, but one night it must have blown just after I went to bed. I woke up to find all the fish, of course, gasing at the surface. Most of them were distressed but still mobile and reactive. The largest one was, well, almost dead. Its eyes were glassy and it was unresponsive when touched. It did finally swim away but only to end up on its side with its head partly in the skimmer. I had to go to work. I got the pump started, hoped the daylight would help oxygenate the pond and somewhat unhopefully hoped for the best. I left work early to go home, fully expecting the big guy to be dead, and at least partly expecting many or all to be dead. But when I got back, the big guy had recovered and was swimming along happily. I ripped out a bunch of plants. Added some large reserve oxygenation with an air pump, discovered the blockage in my main water pump, and then decided to wait to remove the extra stock. I *REALLY* need to make myself do that. I am hoping I can donate the babies to my local Bottanic Gardens. Anyhow, do you guys run plants in your koi ponds? Many people say koi will destroy them, but that is just BS. I have lots of plants that coexist with my koi, but I am beginning to question the wisdom of keeping them. doug |
#6
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disaster narrowly averted
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#7
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disaster narrowly averted
John Rutz ) wrote:
: -- : I keep plants in my pond with the koi with no problems : what happened to you sounds more like it was cause by your pump : problem with the over stocking you have causing a amonia buildup Nope. Zero ammonia. : John Rutz : Z5 New Mexico : : good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad : judgement Indeed. doug |
#8
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disaster narrowly averted
Lee Brouillet ) wrote:
: You're very lucky to have caught it in time. I wish I knew then what I know : now . . . Yeah. I know. The biggest fish is quite fortunate to have lived. Makes me feel rather guilty, since I know all the fundamentals and should have been more careful to ensure the pump was working at 100% effectiveness. doug |
#9
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disaster narrowly averted
need to cite your sources then. Ingrid
(Doug Quarnstrom) wrote: wrote: : It isnt the plants that are above the water that remove oxygen at night. it is the Not according to what I have read. |
#11
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disaster narrowly averted
OK.. the two aquaculture books I have discuss algae blooms, hot temps and loss of
oxygen. they dont talk about other plants of any kind being able to deplete the oxygen like that. the reason may be a surface to volume ratio for uptake of oxygen. the surface area of the roots of plants are small compared to the overall surface area of all the algae in an algae bloom. the roots of plants that are above water only extract oxygen from a small area of the top of the water, like water hyacinths and lettuce. Algae occupies every square inch of the entire water column. there is a trade off in floating plants. yes, they decrease the area for gas exchange, OTOH, floating plants shade and as a result cool the water. algae wont grow in shade. but when I say "above the surface" I am thinking more about plants like iris, reeds, water celery, etc. that actually stand up out of the water. so the treatment for a pond where fish are gasping is not to pull the plants out, but to aerate the water and get rid of the conditions that are fueling the algae bloom. In doing a search for info, I ran across this site Water Plants 101 A basic Introduction to the physiology and ecology of aquatic plants By Dave Huebert http://www.hallman.org/plant/huebert.html Ingrid (Doug Quarnstrom) wrote: wrote: : need to cite your sources then. Ingrid I will certainly do so if I can locate them. However, even if surface plants do not take oxygen out at night, ones that spread a great deal will certainly reduce the surface area for gas exchange and may be problematic for that reason alone. One might request your sources as well... doug : (Doug Quarnstrom) wrote: : wrote: : : It isnt the plants that are above the water that remove oxygen at night. it is the : : Not according to what I have read. |
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