Today is the 5th day since I discovered white sores on some of my fishies.
I think it's fungus.

Fishies living in upper pond, approx 1900 gal; total system 2550 gal.
Pond was enlarged last year but smaller pond still not finished, so I
have not added plants and I put up a fish gate at the step-down stream
to keep fish out of it.

Water crystal clear, no algae, plants healthy. No ammonia, no nitrites
or nitrates.
pictures at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/skndeep1

*I have added malachite green/formalin three times on consecutive days.
*I have added rock salt slowly to increase salt concentration from 0.02%
to 0.1%.
*pH over 9. Some mortar must be leeching into the water. I added 16 oz
of muriatic acid, which did not touch the pH but dropped the kH from 80
to 40. I then went out and bought a pound of "pH Down"
(powdered sodium bisulfate anhydrous) and have added a third of the jar
without it lowering the pH, but the kH is back up to 80.
*Today I bought some antibiotic fish food and fed the fishies once. They
are eating well.

The fish whose sores I am tracking appear to be getting a little better-
the sores have less white and aren't getting deeper, BUT I see
previously unaffected fish with new white areas on their sides.

I bought a 20 gal "plantainer" at Lowe's and a 10 gal $9 aquarium at
Walmart, but the fishies are too fast for me to catch, so please don't
tell me to catch the fish and treat them in a hospital tank! I suppose I
could catch them if I drained the ponds, but I would prefer not to do that.

so-
what do I do now?
How high can I get the salt concentration without hurting my flora?
How do I get the pH down without losing my buffering capacity?

thanks for any advice!

Jo Bohannon
Richmond, Va



Gregory Young wrote:
7) The first step, is to test your water parameters (at the very least pH,
ammonia, nitrite, alkalinity (kH), dissolved oxygen, and of course
temperature)

Jo Bohannon,

It is good that you are trying to get your pH down. If your problem is
Flexibacter columnaris as speculated by Gregory, you are only making it
happy by keeping the pH in the higher regions for it likes this condition.
Also, if you have Flexibacter columnaris using salt (NaCl) is not a good
idea either because this animal likes environments high with sodium.
Instead of using NaCl you would be better off using the Salt CaCl2. It is a
little more expensive, but has no sodium Even though Flexibacter columnaris
likes harder water it does not do well with CaCl2 (Calcium Chloride) in the
water. Stay away from Magnesium salts also.

Dips in PP or copper sulfate can be effective at the start of the infection,
but in advanced cases Oxytetracycline is a good water borne antibiotic.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Jo Bohannon-Grant MD" wrote in message
...
Today is the 5th day since I discovered white sores on some of my fishies.
I think it's fungus.

Fishies living in upper pond, approx 1900 gal; total system 2550 gal.
Pond was enlarged last year but smaller pond still not finished, so I
have not added plants and I put up a fish gate at the step-down stream
to keep fish out of it.

Water crystal clear, no algae, plants healthy. No ammonia, no nitrites
or nitrates.
pictures at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/skndeep1

*I have added malachite green/formalin three times on consecutive days.
*I have added rock salt slowly to increase salt concentration from 0.02%
to 0.1%.
*pH over 9. Some mortar must be leeching into the water. I added 16 oz
of muriatic acid, which did not touch the pH but dropped the kH from 80
to 40. I then went out and bought a pound of "pH Down"
(powdered sodium bisulfate anhydrous) and have added a third of the jar
without it lowering the pH, but the kH is back up to 80.
*Today I bought some antibiotic fish food and fed the fishies once. They
are eating well.

The fish whose sores I am tracking appear to be getting a little better-
the sores have less white and aren't getting deeper, BUT I see
previously unaffected fish with new white areas on their sides.

I bought a 20 gal "plantainer" at Lowe's and a 10 gal $9 aquarium at
Walmart, but the fishies are too fast for me to catch, so please don't
tell me to catch the fish and treat them in a hospital tank! I suppose I
could catch them if I drained the ponds, but I would prefer not to do
that.

so-
what do I do now?
How high can I get the salt concentration without hurting my flora?
How do I get the pH down without losing my buffering capacity?

thanks for any advice!

Jo Bohannon
Richmond, Va

Where do I get CaCl2?
I happen to be a dermatologist and have boatloads of free doxycycline
samples. I didn't know
it could be added in large volumes to pond water; I'd appreciate some
dilution/application guidelines.

Again,
I would also like help in decreasing the pH safely, especially when
using muriatic acid, which has no buffering capacity.
How high a salt concentration can plants withstand?

TIA-
Jo Bohannon

Tom La Bron wrote:

It is good that you are trying to get your pH down. If your problem is
Flexibacter columnaris as speculated by Gregory, you are only making it
happy by keeping the pH in the higher regions for it likes this condition.
Also, if you have Flexibacter columnaris using salt (NaCl) is not a good
idea either because this animal likes environments high with sodium.
Instead of using NaCl you would be better off using the Salt CaCl2. It is a
little more expensive, but has no sodium Stay away from Magnesium salts also.

Dips in PP or copper sulfate can be effective at the start of the infection,
but in advanced cases Oxytetracycline is a good water borne antibiotic.

Tom L.L.

"Jo Bohannon-Grant MD" wrote in message

Today is the 5th day since I discovered white sores on some of my fishies.
I think it's fungus.

Fishies living in upper pond, approx 1900 gal; total system 2550 gal.
Pond was enlarged last year but smaller pond still not finished, so I
have not added plants and I put up a fish gate at the step-down stream
to keep fish out of it.

Water crystal clear, no algae, plants healthy. No ammonia, no nitrites
or nitrates.
pictures at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/skndeep1

*I have added malachite green/formalin three times on consecutive days.
*I have added rock salt slowly to increase salt concentration from 0.02%
to 0.1%.
*pH over 9. Some mortar must be leeching into the water. I added 16 oz
of muriatic acid, which did not touch the pH but dropped the kH from 80
to 40. I then went out and bought a pound of "pH Down"
(powdered sodium bisulfate anhydrous) and have added a third of the jar
without it lowering the pH, but the kH is back up to 80.
*Today I bought some antibiotic fish food and fed the fishies once. They
are eating well.

The fish whose sores I am tracking appear to be getting a little better-
the sores have less white and aren't getting deeper, BUT I see
previously unaffected fish with new white areas on their sides.

so-
what do I do now?
How high can I get the salt concentration without hurting my flora?
How do I get the pH down without losing my buffering capacity?

thanks for any advice!

Jo Bohannon
Richmond, Va

Greeting JO.
I'm BC in EM and IM, practicing mostly the former.
If you are going to use antibiotics, you should not put them into your pond
water.
The better ways a
1) IP/IM injection
2) If not comfortable with above, then PO feeds.
If they were my fish/a pond owner's fish I was consulting on I would:
1) isolate involved fish in tank/pool, etc. Perform a gill/skin scraping and
look for parasites under a scope (which I know you can do based on your
training. You may need help identifying the parasites initially. I would
recommend you go to either www.akca.org or www.koivet.com which can help you
with that part.
2) warm water to at least 65 degrees (to insure antibiotics well distributed
thru tissues, and fish immune system is up to par.. I like to run
temperature 75 - 80, depending on illness I am treating, remembering higher
temperature means less dissolved oxygen, so supplement with airstones, etc)
3) add some baking soda to tank water, to buffer pH which always likes to
decrease in hospital tanks
4) add 0.3% salt, which takes care of most parasites (not all) I add this in
3 stages .1, .1 and .1.
5) either start injecting antibiotics/feeding medicated feeds. I strongly
prefer the former, but if you have never done that, then the latter is
easier, and something most can do (assuming your fish are still eating!)
6) avoid additional feeds, to keep water quality intact.
You can use Romet B (which contains tetracycline). You could also take good
quality feed (good protein, added heat stable vit C (phosphate not sulfate
version), take 250mg TC pills/caps and add the antibiotic to the food,
making gelatin treats, etc, but it's easier to just get Romet B, from a feed
store/local vet.
Usual ulcer pathogens (aeromonas/pseudomonas) respond to TC, as does
Flexibacter.
You've covered most parasites with the salt. You have not hit the flukes,
but you can use fluke tabs, if you identify them on skin & gill scraping.
While PP can certainly be used, it stresses already sick fish more than the
salt, TC, fluke tab combination.
Good luck,
Greg
PS I always recommend advice from local Koi/pond club/aquatic knowledgeable
vet, etc.


"Jo Bohannon-Grant MD" wrote in message
...
Where do I get CaCl2?
I happen to be a dermatologist and have boatloads of free doxycycline
samples. I didn't know
it could be added in large volumes to pond water; I'd appreciate some
dilution/application guidelines.

Again,
I would also like help in decreasing the pH safely, especially when
using muriatic acid, which has no buffering capacity.
How high a salt concentration can plants withstand?

TIA-
Jo Bohannon

Tom La Bron wrote:

It is good that you are trying to get your pH down. If your problem is
Flexibacter columnaris as speculated by Gregory, you are only making it
happy by keeping the pH in the higher regions for it likes this
condition.
Also, if you have Flexibacter columnaris using salt (NaCl) is not a good
idea either because this animal likes environments high with sodium.
Instead of using NaCl you would be better off using the Salt CaCl2. It
is a
little more expensive, but has no sodium Stay away from Magnesium
salts also.

Dips in PP or copper sulfate can be effective at the start of the
infection,
but in advanced cases Oxytetracycline is a good water borne antibiotic.

Tom L.L.

"Jo Bohannon-Grant MD" wrote in message

Today is the 5th day since I discovered white sores on some of my
fishies.
I think it's fungus.

Fishies living in upper pond, approx 1900 gal; total system 2550 gal.
Pond was enlarged last year but smaller pond still not finished, so I
have not added plants and I put up a fish gate at the step-down stream
to keep fish out of it.

Water crystal clear, no algae, plants healthy. No ammonia, no nitrites
or nitrates.
pictures at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/skndeep1

*I have added malachite green/formalin three times on consecutive
days.
*I have added rock salt slowly to increase salt concentration from
0.02%
to 0.1%.
*pH over 9. Some mortar must be leeching into the water. I added 16
oz
of muriatic acid, which did not touch the pH but dropped the kH from
80
to 40. I then went out and bought a pound of "pH Down"
(powdered sodium bisulfate anhydrous) and have added a third of the
jar
without it lowering the pH, but the kH is back up to 80.
*Today I bought some antibiotic fish food and fed the fishies once.
They
are eating well.

The fish whose sores I am tracking appear to be getting a little
better-
the sores have less white and aren't getting deeper, BUT I see
previously unaffected fish with new white areas on their sides.

so-
what do I do now?
How high can I get the salt concentration without hurting my flora?
How do I get the pH down without losing my buffering capacity?

thanks for any advice!

Jo Bohannon
Richmond, Va