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Old 09-06-2003, 04:08 PM
Bob Adkins
 
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Default Advice on pond bottom (structure)



Hi,

I'm new here, and this looks to be a friendly and active group.

I'm digging a 400'X150' recreational fishing pond. I want to stock bluegill,
white crappie, bass, and perhaps red ear bream (chinquapin). For a food
supply, I will stock it with a good supply of gambusia and small freshwater
shrimp (ghost shrimp?), and of course crawfish will find their way into the
pond Any other suggestions for food chain balance?

My main question is this: I want to make about 1/3 to 1/2 of the pond 10'
deep because of the heat problem here in Cajun Country. However, I want to
make some bottom structure that will attract bluegill to spawn in. I have
seen them bed in water 1' deep, and 8' deep as well, but have decided on
4-5'

Where should I put my shallow bedding areas? Along the banks? Flat-topped
ridges out 15-20' from the banks, or where? We like to fish from the banks
with fly rods or 10' bream poles, but getting a small boat is no problem.

Oh, 1 other question. Should I make one small area in a corner of the pond
very shallow and allow weeds to grow there? My thinking is this would make a
nice refuge for the gambusia and shrimp, and allow them to multiply. It
would also protect hatchlings, but I don't know if this would cause over
population.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

1' deep and counting! Oy, that's a lotta dirt! :-\

Bob
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Old 09-06-2003, 06:20 PM
K30a
 
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Default Advice on pond bottom (structure)


Hi Bob!
Your proposed pond sounds wonderful!
Most of us don't even come close to that size.
Until they can chime in I'll give you a few other references and hope you let
us know how it all goes! :-)

The following are great resources
for large ponds.
Earth Pond Sourcebook
by Tim Matson
and the newsgroup
misc.rural
and the ask the Pond Boss forum
http://www.pondboss.com/cgibin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
and
A
HREF="http://www.aquaticecosystems.com/aquatic1v1/index.icl"http://www.aq
uaticecosystems.com/aquatic1v1/index.icl/A

good luck!
k30a
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Old 10-06-2003, 11:56 AM
Bob Adkins
 
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Default Advice on pond bottom (structure)

On 09 Jun 2003 16:13:18 GMT, ESPMER (K30a) wrote:

Until they can chime in I'll give you a few other references and hope you let
us know how it all goes! :-)


Kind thanks.

Bob
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:32 PM
Sam Hopkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on pond bottom (structure)

Hi Bob,

I have a large pond as well. About 4.5 acres of water surface
and 1.5 acres of wetlands. The one thing you want is a balanced pond. To
answer your questions and provide some insight:

You'll want an area of 1'-3' deep for your bluegill to spawn. The bass will
spawn there as well. If you want to make them really happy put down a layer
of pea gravel. Stock only largemouth bass. Small mouth bass don't fair well
in ponds. Small mouth bass like gravel bottoms. I would also add channel
catfish. Add no other types of catfish as they muddy the bottom of the pond.
Do not add koi or carp they muddy the water as well. DO NOT ADD GOLDFISH.

You'll need an area with water plants for the baby fish to hide. I have
cattails and irises. Rule of thumb is 20% plants. Do not add extra food as
one of two things will happen: You'll get an over abundance of small
bluegill or your pond will be based on your food source so when you stop
your pond will crash and fish will starve and stunt. When you stock your
pond for the first time stock fathead minnows and shiners (preferably a
month before bluegill and bass). They will provide food for your bass until
the bluegills spawn.

Usually crappie do not do well in small ponds (even mine is too small).
That's not to say that crappie in some small ponds don't do well. Crappie
spawn before bluegills and bass and the offspring will be in a position to
eat the eggs of the bluegills and bass. Red ear bream are a good choice but
they do not spawn as much as bluegills and stocked instead of bluegill will
not provide enough food for bass. Stocked with bluegills is a good choice. I
think it's 1 to 1 stocking rate. Everything is about chain of life for the
bass. It goes like this:

suspended algae eats macro/micro nutrients in pond water
small creatures eat suspended algae
bluegills, baby bass, frogs, crayfish eat small creatures
bass eat bluegills, frogs, crayfish

The key here is algae. You do not want a clear pond. A clear pond will
result in very few fish and they will all be small. Some pond owners dump
fertilizer into their water to keep the clarity only 18".

Usually any underwater structures you build will attract fish (good for
fishing, it'll be your ponds sweet spot) but will not provide shelter or
protection from larger fish. I built a large reef out of old junk though
just for the heck of it. Don't sink any "green" black oak in your pond.

10' is a good depth. Anything over 12' will be starved for oxygen and won't
get used by fish HOWEVER if you live in a drought area that 20' hole might
save you. I have (2) 20' holes.

You won't have big fish for 3 years and you should not take anything from
the pond for those first 3 years (catch and release).

Be careful of the plants you stick in your pond. You can ruin it. Lilly pads
can easily take over a small pond as can cattails. If planting cattails
check the species of cattails and make sure it's the species that grows only
to 2 feet and not 3-4 feet.

If you have any specific questions please feel free to email me.

"Bob Adkins" wrote in message
...


Hi,

I'm new here, and this looks to be a friendly and active group.

I'm digging a 400'X150' recreational fishing pond. I want to stock

bluegill,
white crappie, bass, and perhaps red ear bream (chinquapin). For a food
supply, I will stock it with a good supply of gambusia and small

freshwater
shrimp (ghost shrimp?), and of course crawfish will find their way into

the
pond Any other suggestions for food chain balance?

My main question is this: I want to make about 1/3 to 1/2 of the pond 10'
deep because of the heat problem here in Cajun Country. However, I want to
make some bottom structure that will attract bluegill to spawn in. I have
seen them bed in water 1' deep, and 8' deep as well, but have decided on
4-5'

Where should I put my shallow bedding areas? Along the banks? Flat-topped
ridges out 15-20' from the banks, or where? We like to fish from the

banks
with fly rods or 10' bream poles, but getting a small boat is no problem.

Oh, 1 other question. Should I make one small area in a corner of the pond
very shallow and allow weeds to grow there? My thinking is this would make

a
nice refuge for the gambusia and shrimp, and allow them to multiply. It
would also protect hatchlings, but I don't know if this would cause over
population.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

1' deep and counting! Oy, that's a lotta dirt! :-\

Bob



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Old 11-06-2003, 12:20 AM
Bob Adkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on pond bottom (structure)

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:29:52 -0400, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote:


I have a large pond as well. About 4.5 acres of water surface
and 1.5 acres of wetlands. The one thing you want is a balanced pond. To
answer your questions and provide some insight:

You'll want an area of 1'-3' deep for your bluegill to spawn. The bass will
spawn there as well. If you want to make them really happy put down a layer
of pea gravel. Stock only largemouth bass. Small mouth bass don't fair well
in ponds. Small mouth bass like gravel bottoms. I would also add channel
catfish. Add no other types of catfish as they muddy the bottom of the pond.
Do not add koi or carp they muddy the water as well. DO NOT ADD GOLDFISH.

You'll need an area with water plants for the baby fish to hide. I have
cattails and irises. Rule of thumb is 20% plants. Do not add extra food as
one of two things will happen: You'll get an over abundance of small
bluegill or your pond will be based on your food source so when you stop
your pond will crash and fish will starve and stunt. When you stock your
pond for the first time stock fathead minnows and shiners (preferably a
month before bluegill and bass). They will provide food for your bass until
the bluegills spawn.

Usually crappie do not do well in small ponds (even mine is too small).
That's not to say that crappie in some small ponds don't do well. Crappie
spawn before bluegills and bass and the offspring will be in a position to
eat the eggs of the bluegills and bass. Red ear bream are a good choice but
they do not spawn as much as bluegills and stocked instead of bluegill will
not provide enough food for bass. Stocked with bluegills is a good choice. I
think it's 1 to 1 stocking rate. Everything is about chain of life for the
bass. It goes like this:

suspended algae eats macro/micro nutrients in pond water
small creatures eat suspended algae
bluegills, baby bass, frogs, crayfish eat small creatures
bass eat bluegills, frogs, crayfish

The key here is algae. You do not want a clear pond. A clear pond will
result in very few fish and they will all be small. Some pond owners dump
fertilizer into their water to keep the clarity only 18".

Usually any underwater structures you build will attract fish (good for
fishing, it'll be your ponds sweet spot) but will not provide shelter or
protection from larger fish. I built a large reef out of old junk though
just for the heck of it. Don't sink any "green" black oak in your pond.

10' is a good depth. Anything over 12' will be starved for oxygen and won't
get used by fish HOWEVER if you live in a drought area that 20' hole might
save you. I have (2) 20' holes.

You won't have big fish for 3 years and you should not take anything from
the pond for those first 3 years (catch and release).

Be careful of the plants you stick in your pond. You can ruin it. Lilly pads
can easily take over a small pond as can cattails. If planting cattails
check the species of cattails and make sure it's the species that grows only
to 2 feet and not 3-4 feet.

If you have any specific questions please feel free to email me.


Sam,

Thanks!!!!

Much of this stuff I knew already, but there were some nuggets in there. The
variety of weeds was priceless. I had considered cattails and rushes, but
had never thought of our native irises! You're a genius!

How about alligator weed? The little shrimp and gambusia absolutely love it
for cover and spawning, but it can get away from you if your banks are too
shallow.

The ratio of weeds to water was also something I could never have found
anywhere else. (Pond Boss is soooo hard to find things!)

My pond will be built to discourage weed growth except for designated
shallow weed beds in a couple of corners. I will fertilize at first to get
things rolling, and taper off to keep the water smelling fresh and on the
clear side. The pond should be large enough to not need lots of fertilizing
keep the fishing lively.

I love trees to fish under, but trees are a no-no. Their leaves cause foul
odor, acid, sludge, and discoloration. Some are even poisonous. So no trees
within 100' of the pond! :-(

Thanks again Sam!

Bob
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