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Old 15-07-2003, 11:08 PM
matt clark
 
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Default what type of cement to use for pond?

I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.

Thanks in advance.

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Old 15-07-2003, 11:08 PM
joe
 
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Default what type of cement to use for pond?

matt clark wrote:

I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.


Matt,

Are you building a formal style pond that requires concrete, or is there a
reason you don't want to use a rubber liner? I think pretty much everyone
here uses EPDM liner (or permalon). It is way easier that using concrete.

Joe



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Old 16-07-2003, 04:43 AM
LYNN FORRES
 
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Default what type of cement to use for pond?

I had a pond poured about 6 months ago - just now getting around to setting
it up. We had reg. portland used to form. (7'x7'x2') Thought I had to use
pool paint (Latex) to seal but didn't want to have a turquoise colored pond
that looked like a swimming pool.. No one here in Texas recommend black
paint due to the heat we have - too warm for fish. Then I talked to another
pond experienced friend who did not paint his concrete - just let it cure
over time - fill it, empty it, several times to rid the surface of toxins.
That's where I am, and I'm going to leave it natural. I really prefer the
color of cement and the patina I will get over time. I don't have a drain,
but I did allow for overrun holes below the brink ledge, that is above
grade, in case of our Texas deluge rains. Now I need to know about
filtration systems, chemical testing, etc. I had planned to have nice
goldfish and plants but a friend has rescued a pond full of koi from a house
sale, and wants me to come and get 'em. Never had koi, but I'm going to try
some. I hope this is somewhat useful information, and any you can share
would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.

Thanks in advance.



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Old 16-07-2003, 07:20 AM
RichToyBox
 
Posts: n/a
Default what type of cement to use for pond?

Concrete for a pond is a job for a professional. Whether it is gunnite,
which is a very dry spray on concrete, or whether it is ready-mix that must
be placed in formwork, neither is a job for the untrained. The EPDM or
similar liners are much more forgiving.

If you use concrete, as soon as the concrete has been placed and finished,
and the workers are out of the pond, cover the surface with polyethylene
sheeting to keep the moisture in for the first week. Add water and leave
the water for a month. At the end of the month of curing, the concrete will
have most of its strength and watertightness. Because the hydration of
cement yields a lot of calcium hydroxide, it will cause the water to have a
very high pH( potentially 13). Drain the water and allow to air dry for a
couple of weeks to allow carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to react with the
calcium hydroxide to form a calcium carbonate (limestone) surface hardening.
This will make the concrete more watertight and reduce the ability of the
calcium hydroxide to migrate to the pond water. Also drying allows the
pores to dry of liquids filling with air which acts as a dam to water flow.
Fill with water and monitor pH. If it is climbing, above about 9, remove
the water allow to air dry for another two weeks and try again. If it has
not stabilized, then you should coat the surface with a surface coating like
Thoroseal, or pool paint.

Some of the skimmers on the market have concrete collars that can be bought
to fit them, and some of the bottom drains have a concrete extension for
going through the concrete, rather than the bulkhead fitting for rubber
liner.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.

Thanks in advance.



  #7   Report Post  
Old 16-07-2003, 07:20 AM
RichToyBox
 
Posts: n/a
Default what type of cement to use for pond?

Concrete for a pond is a job for a professional. Whether it is gunnite,
which is a very dry spray on concrete, or whether it is ready-mix that must
be placed in formwork, neither is a job for the untrained. The EPDM or
similar liners are much more forgiving.

If you use concrete, as soon as the concrete has been placed and finished,
and the workers are out of the pond, cover the surface with polyethylene
sheeting to keep the moisture in for the first week. Add water and leave
the water for a month. At the end of the month of curing, the concrete will
have most of its strength and watertightness. Because the hydration of
cement yields a lot of calcium hydroxide, it will cause the water to have a
very high pH( potentially 13). Drain the water and allow to air dry for a
couple of weeks to allow carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to react with the
calcium hydroxide to form a calcium carbonate (limestone) surface hardening.
This will make the concrete more watertight and reduce the ability of the
calcium hydroxide to migrate to the pond water. Also drying allows the
pores to dry of liquids filling with air which acts as a dam to water flow.
Fill with water and monitor pH. If it is climbing, above about 9, remove
the water allow to air dry for another two weeks and try again. If it has
not stabilized, then you should coat the surface with a surface coating like
Thoroseal, or pool paint.

Some of the skimmers on the market have concrete collars that can be bought
to fit them, and some of the bottom drains have a concrete extension for
going through the concrete, rather than the bulkhead fitting for rubber
liner.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.

Thanks in advance.



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Old 16-07-2003, 11:11 PM
matt clark
 
Posts: n/a
Default what type of cement to use for pond?

I am using a cement liner because i live in az. and the sun is really
harsh on materials. Most people here say to use conerete.
Thanks for the help

joe wrote in message ...
matt clark wrote:

I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.


Matt,

Are you building a formal style pond that requires concrete, or is there a
reason you don't want to use a rubber liner? I think pretty much everyone
here uses EPDM liner (or permalon). It is way easier that using concrete.

Joe



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Old 16-07-2003, 11:12 PM
matt clark
 
Posts: n/a
Default what type of cement to use for pond?

I am using a cement liner because i live in az. and the sun is really
harsh on materials. Most people here say to use conerete.
Thanks for the help

joe wrote in message ...
matt clark wrote:

I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.


Matt,

Are you building a formal style pond that requires concrete, or is there a
reason you don't want to use a rubber liner? I think pretty much everyone
here uses EPDM liner (or permalon). It is way easier that using concrete.

Joe



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

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Old 17-07-2003, 07:01 AM
Gregory Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default what type of cement to use for pond?

I agree with Rich.. concrete is best left with those that work with it
daily.
For mine, I had a gunnited pond. has bottom drain, marginal shelves, and
skimmer, as well as extra (currently not used) side pipes, for future
additions.
Had it sealed with standard sealer used to finish pools. Color I picked is a
natural brown.
Believe it or not, it was only $1500 more than similar sized liner pond if
done by nursery!
Nothing leaches significant out into the water when properly sealed.
Additionally the pond is guaranteed for my lifetime, against leaks, etc.
I have added EPDM lined falls, stream, and bog garden, so you CAN change
your configuration once its "poured in
place"
Happy ponding,
Greg


--


"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Concrete for a pond is a job for a professional. Whether it is gunnite,
which is a very dry spray on concrete, or whether it is ready-mix that

must
be placed in formwork, neither is a job for the untrained. The EPDM or
similar liners are much more forgiving.

If you use concrete, as soon as the concrete has been placed and finished,
and the workers are out of the pond, cover the surface with polyethylene
sheeting to keep the moisture in for the first week. Add water and leave
the water for a month. At the end of the month of curing, the concrete

will
have most of its strength and watertightness. Because the hydration of
cement yields a lot of calcium hydroxide, it will cause the water to have

a
very high pH( potentially 13). Drain the water and allow to air dry for a
couple of weeks to allow carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to react with

the
calcium hydroxide to form a calcium carbonate (limestone) surface

hardening.
This will make the concrete more watertight and reduce the ability of the
calcium hydroxide to migrate to the pond water. Also drying allows the
pores to dry of liquids filling with air which acts as a dam to water

flow.
Fill with water and monitor pH. If it is climbing, above about 9, remove
the water allow to air dry for another two weeks and try again. If it has
not stabilized, then you should coat the surface with a surface coating

like
Thoroseal, or pool paint.

Some of the skimmers on the market have concrete collars that can be

bought
to fit them, and some of the bottom drains have a concrete extension for
going through the concrete, rather than the bulkhead fitting for rubber
liner.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.

Thanks in advance.







  #11   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 07:08 AM
Gregory Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default what type of cement to use for pond?

I agree with Rich.. concrete is best left with those that work with it
daily.
For mine, I had a gunnited pond. has bottom drain, marginal shelves, and
skimmer, as well as extra (currently not used) side pipes, for future
additions.
Had it sealed with standard sealer used to finish pools. Color I picked is a
natural brown.
Believe it or not, it was only $1500 more than similar sized liner pond if
done by nursery!
Nothing leaches significant out into the water when properly sealed.
Additionally the pond is guaranteed for my lifetime, against leaks, etc.
I have added EPDM lined falls, stream, and bog garden, so you CAN change
your configuration once its "poured in
place"
Happy ponding,
Greg


--


"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Concrete for a pond is a job for a professional. Whether it is gunnite,
which is a very dry spray on concrete, or whether it is ready-mix that

must
be placed in formwork, neither is a job for the untrained. The EPDM or
similar liners are much more forgiving.

If you use concrete, as soon as the concrete has been placed and finished,
and the workers are out of the pond, cover the surface with polyethylene
sheeting to keep the moisture in for the first week. Add water and leave
the water for a month. At the end of the month of curing, the concrete

will
have most of its strength and watertightness. Because the hydration of
cement yields a lot of calcium hydroxide, it will cause the water to have

a
very high pH( potentially 13). Drain the water and allow to air dry for a
couple of weeks to allow carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to react with

the
calcium hydroxide to form a calcium carbonate (limestone) surface

hardening.
This will make the concrete more watertight and reduce the ability of the
calcium hydroxide to migrate to the pond water. Also drying allows the
pores to dry of liquids filling with air which acts as a dam to water

flow.
Fill with water and monitor pH. If it is climbing, above about 9, remove
the water allow to air dry for another two weeks and try again. If it has
not stabilized, then you should coat the surface with a surface coating

like
Thoroseal, or pool paint.

Some of the skimmers on the market have concrete collars that can be

bought
to fit them, and some of the bottom drains have a concrete extension for
going through the concrete, rather than the bulkhead fitting for rubber
liner.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
I am putting a new pond in my back yard. It is my first time doing a
project like this. I have pretty much got the hole dug at about 3'5"
and i have already purchased the rebar. My problem is that i cant seem
to figure out the best type of concrete to create a liner. I was told
gunite and portland. but im not sure. Also will I have to seal it
regardless of what type of cement i use? Soo many questions. Also if
anyone has any tips i would appreciate any help on sealing the drain
or plumbing tips.

Thanks in advance.







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