| Page 2 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Size doesn't matter when stocking. When stocking fish you have two things to
contend with: Quality of life for a fish. You can keep a 18" koi alive in 1 gallon of water but what kind of life is that? The 1000 gallons for the first koi is so it has room to move freely. Amount of waste and what you do with that waste. If you do a 100% water change every day you can again keep a 18" koi alive in 1 gallon of water. Instead of replacing water to reduce the amount of waste some people filter the waste through bio filters to convert it and then use plants to absorb it. There's no difference between he two. With each you're getting rid of the waste. Now I doubt it's possible to do a water change with city water for a 5,000 gallon pond every week just for the sheer cost of it. Even well water costs money in electricity to pump it out of the ground not to mention the time it'd take to do it. Sam "Chad" wrote in message om... I would like to know how many koi rec.ponder's are really stocking in their ponds. I have seen the recommended stock postings, yet I wonder what is really being done by the average pond enthusiast. Preface, As of right now I have an approximate 1500 gallon pond with 5 Koi, 2 comets, 3 feeder goldfish(Don't really want them - just inherited them) and hundreds of mosquito fish. In addition I have ton's of WH, 5 water Lilies, Hornwort, Anacharis and a bunch of marginals. But that is not where I started.... I built my first pond when I was 13, my dad bought a tetra flexible liner and I dug the hole and put it in. We used this for a couple of years then I swithed to fiberglass stock tanks then finally to preformed liners. I had never had anything larger than 200 gallons. For the first 8 years I had no plants at all - just fish. I started with 12 Koi. Yes, 12. Nedra... get up off the floor. :) They were all around 2-3 inches when I bought them. The first 2 years I kept them outside in the summer and inside during the winter. Then in the summer of my third year I was cleaning the pond when I had to leave for a while and I accidently left the pump draining the pond. Needless to say I lost 7 fish. Some to the lack of water, others to sunburning. The remaining 5 fish stayed in the pond year round after that. I never used chemicals for algae, nor did I have ANY filtration. Frequent well water changes where it. We lost 3 of the five during the 5 years I was at college. Not all at once, nor in the same year. My remaining two fish stayed at my parents house until 1998 when I moved them to my 200 gallon pond I put in at my new house. This was the first time they had ever had a filter, in addition I started to use algae controllers since I was on city water and couldn't change it like I did before. 3 years ago I almost lost both of them to disease after a really cold winter and bad sludge problems in the pond. At this time I had the two original fish plus 1 of the koi mentioned above and the two comets in the pond. I medicated them with a ton of medication and brought them back from sick curled up floaters to healthy fish. Later that year I lost one of the two original to the same disease. The other made it until last year when he mysteriously died while I was on vacation. I examined him but there was no sign of disease. He was 16 years old and had spent his life in less than 200 gallons and was the friendliest fish I have ever had. So, I have read the rules. I have seen the wolves (maybe raccoon's is more appropriate) attack those who admit to not following the rules, yet my experience breaks the rules. I don't see many postings from those who are apparently overstocking. Perhaps they are scared of the raccoon's like I was. I know I cannot be the only one who has done this, so I am curious what others are really doing. |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing,
it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan,
Since you were disposing of the fish anyway you should have done a gill scraping. Tom L.L. "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan,
The illness of your fish has me rather worried. Our ponds are the same age and I've never had a sickness either.... (fingers and toes are crossed). I know you closely watch the quality of the water - But, isn't your filter supposed to take care of things like this? How could fish get ulcers without something showing in the tests? Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
have you called Jo Ann and talked it over with her? Ingrid
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan,
There are other causes of ulcers besides parasites. Scrapes and scratches gotten during spawning can become very bad ulcers. Do you use KoiZyme. I have not had to use injectables on but two fish in the last 4 or 5 years since I started with the KoiZyme. It doesn't do anything for the parasites, but it sure keeps the fish from having the bacterial infections. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
have you called Jo Ann and talked it over with her? Ingrid
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan,
There are other causes of ulcers besides parasites. Scrapes and scratches gotten during spawning can become very bad ulcers. Do you use KoiZyme. I have not had to use injectables on but two fish in the last 4 or 5 years since I started with the KoiZyme. It doesn't do anything for the parasites, but it sure keeps the fish from having the bacterial infections. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan, sorry to hear that your fish are having problems. I remember my first
year, and the panic when they started to die. You're much more experienced than I was, so it must be doubly frustrating. Would you please share your Tricide Neo experience? I have some to keep on hand as a "just in case", for use in my "First Aid" kit. I have a diabetic friend who gave me some needles (which are hard to get around here!), but I don't keep injectibles on hand - their shelf life is too short. For folks who are afraid of injectibles or just don't have access, Tricide Neo *should* be a good alternative. Yes? No? I agree with RTB on the Koizyme: it's one of the easiest ways to prevent ulcers. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Update: 2nd fish was put down after found floating on side still breathing, it would have been a major miracle if it had lived anyway. Another victim, with small ulcers, has been pulled from pond, hopefully at an earlier stage to rescue. This one was also scraped for a microscope slide, behind gill, vent and just before the tail, nothing found. If anyone is thinking of using Tricide Neo, talk to me. I've tried several methods as described on Dr.J's website, so I'm somewhat experienced on the good, ugly & scaley of the methods listed. ~ jan Koi Ponds total size: 1,500 gallons 1995 Koi: 17 this spring, sold 2 early on,but not soon enough, 2 sick and out of pond one of which is now deceased. 1st case of illness I've every had, as I failed to lower the stocking rate soon enough as koi grew. :o( Lilypond: 1,000 gallons Fancy Goldfish: 5 only (that may all be female) w/a few tadpoles left. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:11:57 -0500, "Tom La Bron" wrote:
Since you were disposing of the fish anyway you should have done a gill scraping. We did that when it was alive. One fluke was found, sick tank and pond were treated with malathion. Just for the experience though, I should have anyway. Dang. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan,
The illness of your fish has me rather worried. Our ponds are the same age and I've never had a sickness either.... (fingers and toes are crossed). I know you closely watch the quality of the water - But, isn't your filter supposed to take care of things like this? How could fish get ulcers without something showing in the tests? Nedra Actually I had some water quality issues in the spring. Problem was I was adjusting to my full life and trying to work a JOB in there too. So I wasn't out there as much watching the fish as I normally would have been otherwise. :o( Plus, I knew I was over crowded as of last summer and should have done something about it then and not waited. Live & learn. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Thanks for the explantion. Sorry for your loss .....
I wash my filter bags Every Day ... no other way around that. I really need to put in more filtration. Think I'll do the whiskey barrels (3) and the 125 gallon preform.. That should hold them (the Koi) for this year. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Jan, The illness of your fish has me rather worried. Our ponds are the same age and I've never had a sickness either.... (fingers and toes are crossed). I know you closely watch the quality of the water - But, isn't your filter supposed to take care of things like this? How could fish get ulcers without something showing in the tests? Nedra Actually I had some water quality issues in the spring. Problem was I was adjusting to my full life and trying to work a JOB in there too. So I wasn't out there as much watching the fish as I normally would have been otherwise. :o( Plus, I knew I was over crowded as of last summer and should have done something about it then and not waited. Live & learn. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Thanks for the explantion. Sorry for your loss .....
I wash my filter bags Every Day ... no other way around that. I really need to put in more filtration. Think I'll do the whiskey barrels (3) and the 125 gallon preform.. That should hold them (the Koi) for this year. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Jan, The illness of your fish has me rather worried. Our ponds are the same age and I've never had a sickness either.... (fingers and toes are crossed). I know you closely watch the quality of the water - But, isn't your filter supposed to take care of things like this? How could fish get ulcers without something showing in the tests? Nedra Actually I had some water quality issues in the spring. Problem was I was adjusting to my full life and trying to work a JOB in there too. So I wasn't out there as much watching the fish as I normally would have been otherwise. :o( Plus, I knew I was over crowded as of last summer and should have done something about it then and not waited. Live & learn. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a
digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram scales. Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the weight of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think it cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says you can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and fish poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it. Of course, you have to bring it back to room temp before you use it, but it extends the life. I thought the gallon mix would be the easiest way to do it, but the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a budget. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... On 21 Jul 2003 08:27:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: Would you please share your Tricide Neo experience? IME, the ideal way to do it, is put a gallon of the mixture in a bag. Do not sedate fish, using a koi sock net, catch fish, rinse with pond water, put in bag, hold bag up so liquid covers fish. A gallon will be enough. Set timer as directed on package. Fish did not get all frantic in the less than 5 minutes we had it in there. Net out with koi sock, rinse and put in sick tank, very little human handling. The meds will last thru the 3 times easy, if the fish doesn't poop in bag, so don't feed the day you're gonna do it. It needs to be aerated and stored in a dark container (think rubbermaid) with an airstone in the bag. Economically, if you have a chemist or someone with accurate gram scales buy the 5 gallon amount and then divide the meds by 5 portions store dry in a dark container, I'm using a decorator tin. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:
I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram scales. Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the weight of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think it cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says you can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and fish poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it. Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip seems to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that I can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't experienced them, because..... the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a budget. just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a week at room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container.... again, if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces. I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and kept moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth. Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up. It flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going all over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold a fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there is no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the edge of the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the devil of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to think about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub. Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure, imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp & pH, or one just adds more stress. There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be counter indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo. That they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather koi that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the wife said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer than 5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and the meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like to hear about it. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:43:29 GMT, "Theo van Daele" wrote:
FWIW, you are one of the jewels of these NG, and I hope you don't blame yourself. Ah, shucks, thanks Theo. ;o) Actually this is the first time I've had trouble and there is an old saying that, "You're not a true cowboy till you fall off a horse." I think doctoring a few koi is making me a better KHA (Koi Health Advisor). If nothing else, I have more empathy for my fellow true koi people. ;o) Yup, ugly stuff like having a job (!?) can make us a bit less vigilant (d'uh). Especially with trying to keep on top of making sure my middle son graduated and youngest son did reasonably well himself. Way too many hats for me to wear this spring, and then have this too. I think we can scrap "ignorance" in your case LOL, yea, it's that dang denial that gets me in trouble. "Did that fish flash? Naa, I'm imaging things." ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan... a single fluke is not an infestation. Most fish got a fluke or two. we arent
talking dacs, right? Ingrid ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:11:57 -0500, "Tom La Bron" wrote: Since you were disposing of the fish anyway you should have done a gill scraping. We did that when it was alive. One fluke was found, sick tank and pond were treated with malathion. Just for the experience though, I should have anyway. Dang. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:19:58 GMT, wrote:
Jan... a single fluke is not an infestation. Exactly my point for not nuking the pond, one fluke on a stressed fish is like one aphid on a rose petal, you don't get out the DDT and nuke the yard. Most fish got a fluke or two. we arent talking dacs, right? Ingrid Yes, it was a gill fluke. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is the
"vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the "anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky! A little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil of Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for actual surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only anesthesia allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi, the Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about handling them without a struggle. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram scales. Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the weight of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think it cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says you can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and fish poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it. Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip seems to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that I can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't experienced them, because..... the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a budget. just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a week at room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container.... again, if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces. I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and kept moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth. Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up. It flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going all over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold a fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there is no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the edge of the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the devil of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to think about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub. Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure, imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp & pH, or one just adds more stress. There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be counter indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo. That they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather koi that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the wife said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer than 5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and the meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like to hear about it. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
From taking the KHA course Oil of Clove was not recommended because it
takes longer to put them out and longer to wake them up. They did not feel it was as forgiving as your experience. My fish were barely knocked out. Regardless though, from my experience, Finquel just isn't necessary if one does the bag method. Last dip was done today, btw. Now we wait. ~ jan On 23 Jul 2003 09:24:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is the "vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the "anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky! A little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil of Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for actual surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only anesthesia allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi, the Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about handling them without a struggle. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram scales. Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the weight of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think it cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says you can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and fish poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it. Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip seems to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that I can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't experienced them, because..... the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a budget. just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a week at room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container.... again, if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces. I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and kept moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth. Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up. It flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going all over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold a fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there is no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the edge of the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the devil of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to think about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub. Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure, imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp & pH, or one just adds more stress. There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be counter indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo. That they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather koi that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the wife said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer than 5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and the meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like to hear about it. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Hmmm. I've only worked with little fish, under 6" in 3 different labs. The
fish usually rolled over in about 3-4 minutes and could be handled easily. When done, they were placed in a second tank with airstones running, and they recouped in about 2 minutes. In fact, catching them to return them to the main population was a problem, so they *definitely* felt better! We were using 5 drops to the gallon. It's funny that you say the KHA course doesn't exactly approve of the Oil of Clove; Doc Johnson stated that it was safer, inasmuch as he had fish that he thought were dead from it, only to have them revive on the trip home. He thought it was safer in "amateur" hands than Finquel, the "vet approved" anasthesia, which is *definitely* fatal if mishandled or overdosed. I haven't used the Finquel - maybe "one of these days"???? so I guess it's a matter of what YOU - the person in charge! - is most comfortable with. Let me know how it goes with this final dip. I haven't had to use IT, either! I have a full stock of meds in my first aid kit, but hope I never have to use them G Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... From taking the KHA course Oil of Clove was not recommended because it takes longer to put them out and longer to wake them up. They did not feel it was as forgiving as your experience. My fish were barely knocked out. Regardless though, from my experience, Finquel just isn't necessary if one does the bag method. Last dip was done today, btw. Now we wait. ~ jan On 23 Jul 2003 09:24:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is the "vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the "anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky! A little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil of Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for actual surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only anesthesia allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi, the Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about handling them without a struggle. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram scales. Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the weight of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think it cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says you can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and fish poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it. Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip seems to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that I can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't experienced them, because..... the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a budget. just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a week at room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container.... again, if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces. I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and kept moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth. Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up. It flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going all over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold a fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there is no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the edge of the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the devil of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to think about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub. Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure, imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp & pH, or one just adds more stress. There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be counter indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo. That they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather koi that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the wife said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer than 5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and the meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like to hear about it. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Jan...
Sorry to read all this. FWIW, you are one of the jewels of these NG, and I hope you don't blame yourself. Yup, ugly stuff like having a job (!?) can make us a bit less vigilant (d'uh). But real life does kick in sometimes doesn't it ? Some people have loads of fish dying because of ignorance, but sometimes it's just... an accident :-( I think we can scrap "ignorance" in your case ! Live & learn... you bet. I hope the other guys/gals "swim" through all this. Here's hoping :-) Theo PS: we humans have a great "bouncing back" feature... when you feel like it, go out and buy a magoi or a chagoi ! "~ jan JJsPond.us" schreef in bericht ... Jan, The illness of your fish has me rather worried. Our ponds are the same age and I've never had a sickness either.... (fingers and toes are crossed). I know you closely watch the quality of the water - But, isn't your filter supposed to take care of things like this? How could fish get ulcers without something showing in the tests? Nedra Actually I had some water quality issues in the spring. Problem was I was adjusting to my full life and trying to work a JOB in there too. So I wasn't out there as much watching the fish as I normally would have been otherwise. :o( Plus, I knew I was over crowded as of last summer and should have done something about it then and not waited. Live & learn. ~ jan |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:
Hmmm. I've only worked with little fish, under 6" in 3 different labs. The fish usually rolled over in about 3-4 minutes and could be handled easily. When done, they were placed in a second tank with airstones running, and they recouped in about 2 minutes. In fact, catching them to return them to the main population was a problem, so they *definitely* felt better! We were using 5 drops to the gallon. It's funny that you say the KHA course doesn't exactly approve of the Oil of Clove; Doc Johnson stated that it was safer, inasmuch as he had fish that he thought were dead from it, only to have them revive on the trip home. He thought it was safer in "amateur" hands than Finquel, the "vet approved" anasthesia, which is *definitely* fatal if mishandled or overdosed. I haven't used the Finquel - maybe "one of these days"???? so I guess it's a matter of what YOU - the person in charge! - is most comfortable with. Rightly so, we follow and are more comfortable with what our teachers teach. Finquel can knock a fish out in 30 seconds to a minute and wake up time is about that fast too, ime. I would never have considered using it if I'd not seen it demonstrated many times. Let me know how it goes with this final dip. I haven't had to use IT, either! I have a full stock of meds in my first aid kit, but hope I never have to use them G Dipping went well, I was amazed how relaxed the fish was after 5 minutes in the dip, wasn't hard to recapture and this was without using Finquel. The whole thing was SO much easier w/less stress. Fish is looking good so far and I'm feeding it Medi-Koi now. All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size. Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help. Good luck! Lee snip "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I can
maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit. As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that stuff now. ~ jan On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size. Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help. Good luck! Lee snip "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are
only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I can maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit. As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that stuff now. ~ jan On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size. Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help. Good luck! Lee snip "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got
my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a nosedive - I can't do anything around the pond except water changes and adding Koi Clay, Amquel etc. Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are in the pond is not possible. Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number? I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Lee Brouillet" wrote in message ... Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I can maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit. As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that stuff now. ~ jan On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size. Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help. Good luck! Lee snip "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Nedra wrote: I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a nosedive - I can't do anything around the pond except water changes and adding Koi Clay, Amquel etc. Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are in the pond is not possible. Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number? I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure. Nedra from Doc Johnson Q: I currently have a Aeromonas problem, should I increase the Koizyme dosage and is that safe to do? A: We strongly recommend that you double the dosage rate if you have a existing Aeromonas problem. By doubling the dosage rate, you will speed up the rate that the Koizyme will consume the bad "nutrients" from the pond water, thus starving out the Aeromonas sooner. It is almost impossible to overdose with Koizyme. I have dosed my hospital tank, with 9 Koi in it, at the rate of 200ml (over 6 oz.)/1,000 gallons for a period of three weeks with no affect on the fish or the biofilter. Also, by increasing the dosage rate during an existing Aeromonas problem, Koizyme bacteria will displace the Aeromonas bacteria off the ulcer or infected area of the fish. You will see the infected area start to "white over" soon after treatment is started. BUT, let me say this, if the ulcer is in an advanced state (into the "meat" of the fish), you should treat that fish with antibiotics because most likely that Aeromonas bacteria has gotten into it's bloodstream. John Rutz Z5 New Mexico never miss a good oportunity to shut up see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Nedra wrote
My health has taken a nosedive This isn't good! I haven't been paying attention to the KoiZyme thread but hopefully someone can give you a short cut or estimate method. Be well! k30a yearly brother website posting http://www.30acreimaging.com/ |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Nedra,
Googling your pond size, posts show it to be 3000 gallons plus. As John said, if you are having problems, double the dose. Other than the wallet, it does not hurt anything, and really does help. I would not under dose. I have had some problems pop up, even with regular dosing, and had to increase to double. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Nedra" wrote in message thlink.net... I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a nosedive - I can't do anything around the pond except water changes and adding Koi Clay, Amquel etc. Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are in the pond is not possible. Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number? I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Lee Brouillet" wrote in message ... Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I can maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit. As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that stuff now. ~ jan On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size. Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help. Good luck! Lee snip "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Thanks for your concern, Kathy.
Looks like I have been worrying over the pond needlessly. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "K30a" wrote in message ... Nedra wrote My health has taken a nosedive This isn't good! I haven't been paying attention to the KoiZyme thread but hopefully someone can give you a short cut or estimate method. Be well! k30a yearly brother website posting http://www.30acreimaging.com/ |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Thanks Rich and John....
taking a big sigh of relief. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "johnrutz" wrote in message ... Nedra wrote: I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a nosedive - I can't do anything around the pond except water changes and adding Koi Clay, Amquel etc. Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are in the pond is not possible. Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number? I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure. Nedra from Doc Johnson Q: I currently have a Aeromonas problem, should I increase the Koizyme dosage and is that safe to do? A: We strongly recommend that you double the dosage rate if you have a existing Aeromonas problem. By doubling the dosage rate, you will speed up the rate that the Koizyme will consume the bad "nutrients" from the pond water, thus starving out the Aeromonas sooner. It is almost impossible to overdose with Koizyme. I have dosed my hospital tank, with 9 Koi in it, at the rate of 200ml (over 6 oz.)/1,000 gallons for a period of three weeks with no affect on the fish or the biofilter. Also, by increasing the dosage rate during an existing Aeromonas problem, Koizyme bacteria will displace the Aeromonas bacteria off the ulcer or infected area of the fish. You will see the infected area start to "white over" soon after treatment is started. BUT, let me say this, if the ulcer is in an advanced state (into the "meat" of the fish), you should treat that fish with antibiotics because most likely that Aeromonas bacteria has gotten into it's bloodstream. John Rutz Z5 New Mexico never miss a good oportunity to shut up see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Sorry to hear you're not feeling well, Nedra. Hope you improve shortly! As
others have stated, it's nearly impossible to overdose on Koizyme. They're bioengineered bacteria, and if they don't have a food source, they simply die. They're programmed to die (anyway) in 3 days, which is why you have to treat every 3 days in the beginning, then once a week for maintenance. If your pond "calculates" to 3,000 gallons or so, it's a pretty safe bet that it's actually less. Initially, I'd treat it as if it's 3,000; once you get to the maintenance level, try 2,000 gallons. I usually just shake up the bottle and pour a quick "glunk" in the pond. Remember to keep it refrigerated: the biobugs will hibernate and last longer than if the bottle is room temp. And NEVER let it get hot! You won't have to use it during the winter when the water cools, but it is *imperative* that you start using it as soon as the water gets into the 50's to prevent the aeromonas/pseudomonas (ulcer-causing bacteria) from getting a start on the fish before their immune system kicks in. Hope you feel better! Lee "Nedra" wrote in message thlink.net... I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a nosedive - I can't do anything around the pond except water changes and adding Koi Clay, Amquel etc. Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are in the pond is not possible. Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number? I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Lee Brouillet" wrote in message ... Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I can maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit. As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that stuff now. ~ jan On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size. Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help. Good luck! Lee snip "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax yet? Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish to pond with its buddies? ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
If you run to West Virginia for any length of time be sure to go west of
Grant County. This year we are getting lots of rain but usually we get very little. And if you are a gardener, the soil is awful!! Oh to be back in Michigan!!! "FBCS" wrote in message ... Not me! We are Marylanders and are always running to West VA. "K30a" wrote in message ... BV wrote All of my in-laws now live in MD, as of two weeks ago. I think what you are saying is I am actually dead? So Heaven is in Maryland, who'da thought? ;-) k30a |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:55 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter