From taking the KHA course Oil of Clove was not recommended because it
takes longer to put them out and longer to wake them up. They did not feel
it was as forgiving as your experience. My fish were barely knocked out.

Regardless though, from my experience, Finquel just isn't necessary if one
does the bag method. Last dip was done today, btw. Now we wait. ~ jan

On 23 Jul 2003 09:24:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is the
"vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the
"anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more
passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky! A
little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil of
Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for actual
surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only anesthesia
allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi, the
Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the
dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just
that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on
performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to
handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about handling
them without a struggle.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a
digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram
scales.
Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the
weight
of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think
it
cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says
you
can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and
fish
poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it.

Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip
seems
to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that I
can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't
experienced them, because.....

the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a
budget.

just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and
Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a week
at
room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container....
again,
if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces.

I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and
kept
moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I
worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth.

Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up. It
flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going all
over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold a
fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there is
no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the edge
of
the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone
behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the devil
of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to think
about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub.

Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure,
imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp &
pH, or one just adds more stress.

There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be counter
indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo. That
they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather
koi
that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the wife
said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer
than
5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish
were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and the
meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like to
hear about it. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Hmmm. I've only worked with little fish, under 6" in 3 different labs. The
fish usually rolled over in about 3-4 minutes and could be handled easily.
When done, they were placed in a second tank with airstones running, and
they recouped in about 2 minutes. In fact, catching them to return them to
the main population was a problem, so they *definitely* felt better! We were
using 5 drops to the gallon. It's funny that you say the KHA course doesn't
exactly approve of the Oil of Clove; Doc Johnson stated that it was safer,
inasmuch as he had fish that he thought were dead from it, only to have them
revive on the trip home. He thought it was safer in "amateur" hands than
Finquel, the "vet approved" anasthesia, which is *definitely* fatal if
mishandled or overdosed. I haven't used the Finquel - maybe "one of these
days"???? so I guess it's a matter of what YOU - the person in charge! - is
most comfortable with.

Let me know how it goes with this final dip. I haven't had to use IT,
either! I have a full stock of meds in my first aid kit, but hope I never
have to use them G

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
From taking the KHA course Oil of Clove was not recommended because it
takes longer to put them out and longer to wake them up. They did not feel
it was as forgiving as your experience. My fish were barely knocked out.

Regardless though, from my experience, Finquel just isn't necessary if one
does the bag method. Last dip was done today, btw. Now we wait. ~ jan

On 23 Jul 2003 09:24:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is
the
"vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the
"anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more
passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky!
A
little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil
of
Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for
actual
surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only
anesthesia
allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi,
the
Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the
dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just
that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on
performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to
handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about
handling
them without a struggle.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:

I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one,
a
digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram
scales.
Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the
weight
of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I
think
it
cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J
says
you
can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and
fish
poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it.

Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip
seems
to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that
I
can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't
experienced them, because.....

the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a
budget.

just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and
Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a
week
at
room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container....
again,
if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces.

I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and
kept
moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I
worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth.

Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up.
It
flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going
all
over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold
a
fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there
is
no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the
edge
of
the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone
behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the
devil
of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to
think
about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub.

Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure,
imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp
&
pH, or one just adds more stress.

There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be
counter
indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo.
That
they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather
koi
that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the
wife
said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer
than
5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish
were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and
the
meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like
to
hear about it. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Jan...

Sorry to read all this.

FWIW, you are one of the jewels of these NG, and I hope you don't blame
yourself.

Yup, ugly stuff like having a job (!?) can make us a bit less vigilant
(d'uh). But real life does kick in sometimes doesn't it ?

Some people have loads of fish dying because of ignorance, but sometimes
it's just... an accident :-( I think we can scrap "ignorance" in your case
!

Live & learn... you bet.

I hope the other guys/gals "swim" through all this.

Here's hoping :-)

Theo

PS: we humans have a great "bouncing back" feature... when you feel like it,
go out and buy a magoi or a chagoi !

"~ jan JJsPond.us" schreef in bericht
...
Jan,
The illness of your fish has me rather worried. Our ponds are
the same age and I've never had a sickness either.... (fingers and toes
are
crossed). I know you closely watch the quality of
the water - But, isn't your filter supposed to take care of things like
this? How could fish get ulcers without something showing in the
tests? Nedra

Actually I had some water quality issues in the spring. Problem was I was
adjusting to my full life and trying to work a JOB in there too. So I
wasn't out there as much watching the fish as I normally would have been
otherwise. ( Plus, I knew I was over crowded as of last summer and
should have done something about it then and not waited. Live & learn.
~ jan

On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

Hmmm. I've only worked with little fish, under 6" in 3 different labs. The
fish usually rolled over in about 3-4 minutes and could be handled easily.
When done, they were placed in a second tank with airstones running, and
they recouped in about 2 minutes. In fact, catching them to return them to
the main population was a problem, so they *definitely* felt better! We were
using 5 drops to the gallon. It's funny that you say the KHA course doesn't
exactly approve of the Oil of Clove; Doc Johnson stated that it was safer,
inasmuch as he had fish that he thought were dead from it, only to have them
revive on the trip home. He thought it was safer in "amateur" hands than
Finquel, the "vet approved" anasthesia, which is *definitely* fatal if
mishandled or overdosed. I haven't used the Finquel - maybe "one of these
days"???? so I guess it's a matter of what YOU - the person in charge! - is
most comfortable with.

Rightly so, we follow and are more comfortable with what our teachers
teach. Finquel can knock a fish out in 30 seconds to a minute and wake up
time is about that fast too, ime. I would never have considered using it if
I'd not seen it demonstrated many times.

Let me know how it goes with this final dip. I haven't had to use IT,
either! I have a full stock of meds in my first aid kit, but hope I never
have to use them G

Dipping went well, I was amazed how relaxed the fish was after 5 minutes in
the dip, wasn't hard to recapture and this was without using Finquel. The
whole thing was SO much easier w/less stress. Fish is looking good so far
and I'm feeding it Medi-Koi now.

All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen
indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size.
Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final
treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to
be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a
psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and
thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and
sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be
top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's
pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly
Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help.

Good luck!
Lee

snip
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:


All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter
to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning
fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I can
maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I
can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard
to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit.

As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next
year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that
stuff now. ~ jan

On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen
indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial size.
Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the final
treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes to
be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a
psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and
thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and
sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should be
top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's
pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly
Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help.

Good luck!
Lee

snip
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:


All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a quarter
to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning
fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are
only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I
can
maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I
can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is hard
to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit.

As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and next
year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on that
stuff now. ~ jan

On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've seen
indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial
size.
Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the
final
treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish likes
to
be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a
psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and
thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish and
sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality should
be
top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone else's
pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly
Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help.

Good luck!
Lee

snip
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:


All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can
relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a
quarter
to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before returning
fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got
my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to
know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to
treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a
nosedive - I can't do
anything around the pond except water changes and adding
Koi Clay, Amquel etc.
Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are
in the pond is not possible.
Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat
the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number?
I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure.

Nedra

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are
only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and I
can
maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what I
can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is
hard
to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit.

As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and
next
year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on
that
stuff now. ~ jan

On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've
seen
indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial
size.
Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the
final
treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish
likes
to
be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a
psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and
thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish
and
sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality
should
be
top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone
else's
pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly
Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help.

Good luck!
Lee

snip
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:


All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can
relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a
quarter
to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before
returning
fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Nedra wrote:
I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got
my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to
know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to
treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a
nosedive - I can't do
anything around the pond except water changes and adding
Koi Clay, Amquel etc.
Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are
in the pond is not possible.
Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat
the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number?
I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure.

Nedra
from Doc Johnson

Q: I currently have a Aeromonas problem, should I increase the Koizyme
dosage and is that safe to do?

A: We strongly recommend that you double the dosage rate if you have a
existing Aeromonas problem. By doubling the dosage rate, you will speed
up the rate that the Koizyme will consume the bad "nutrients" from the
pond water, thus starving out the Aeromonas sooner.

It is almost impossible to overdose with Koizyme. I have dosed my
hospital tank, with 9 Koi in it, at the rate of 200ml (over 6 oz.)/1,000
gallons for a period of three weeks with no affect on the fish or the
biofilter. Also, by increasing the dosage rate during an existing
Aeromonas problem, Koizyme bacteria will displace the Aeromonas bacteria
off the ulcer or infected area of the fish.

You will see the infected area start to "white over" soon after
treatment is started. BUT, let me say this, if the ulcer is in an
advanced state (into the "meat" of the fish), you should treat that fish
with antibiotics because most likely that Aeromonas bacteria has gotten
into it's bloodstream.

John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Nedra wrote
My health has taken a
nosedive

This isn't good!
I haven't been paying attention to
the KoiZyme thread but hopefully
someone can give you a short cut or
estimate method.
Be well!


k30a
yearly brother website posting
http://www.30acreimaging.com/

Nedra,

Googling your pond size, posts show it to be 3000 gallons plus. As John
said, if you are having problems, double the dose. Other than the wallet,
it does not hurt anything, and really does help. I would not under dose. I
have had some problems pop up, even with regular dosing, and had to increase
to double.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Nedra" wrote in message
thlink.net...
I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got
my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to
know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to
treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a
nosedive - I can't do
anything around the pond except water changes and adding
Koi Clay, Amquel etc.
Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are
in the pond is not possible.
Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat
the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number?
I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure.

Nedra

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are
only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and
I
can
maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what
I
can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is
hard
to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit.

As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and
next
year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on
that
stuff now. ~ jan

On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:

You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've
seen
indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial
size.
Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the
final
treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish
likes
to
be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a
psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and
thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish
and
sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality
should
be
top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone
else's
pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly
Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help.

Good luck!
Lee

snip
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:


All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can
relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a
quarter
to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before
returning
fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Thanks for your concern, Kathy.
Looks like I have been worrying over the pond needlessly.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"K30a" wrote in message
...
Nedra wrote
My health has taken a
nosedive

This isn't good!
I haven't been paying attention to
the KoiZyme thread but hopefully
someone can give you a short cut or
estimate method.
Be well!


k30a
yearly brother website posting
http://www.30acreimaging.com/

Thanks Rich and John....

taking a big sigh of relief.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"johnrutz" wrote in message
...


Nedra wrote:
I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got
my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to
know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to
treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a
nosedive - I can't do
anything around the pond except water changes and adding
Koi Clay, Amquel etc.
Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are
in the pond is not possible.
Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat
the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number?
I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure.

Nedra
from Doc Johnson

Q: I currently have a Aeromonas problem, should I increase the Koizyme
dosage and is that safe to do?

A: We strongly recommend that you double the dosage rate if you have a
existing Aeromonas problem. By doubling the dosage rate, you will speed
up the rate that the Koizyme will consume the bad "nutrients" from the
pond water, thus starving out the Aeromonas sooner.

It is almost impossible to overdose with Koizyme. I have dosed my
hospital tank, with 9 Koi in it, at the rate of 200ml (over 6 oz.)/1,000
gallons for a period of three weeks with no affect on the fish or the
biofilter. Also, by increasing the dosage rate during an existing
Aeromonas problem, Koizyme bacteria will displace the Aeromonas bacteria
off the ulcer or infected area of the fish.

You will see the infected area start to "white over" soon after
treatment is started. BUT, let me say this, if the ulcer is in an
advanced state (into the "meat" of the fish), you should treat that fish
with antibiotics because most likely that Aeromonas bacteria has gotten
into it's bloodstream.

John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Sorry to hear you're not feeling well, Nedra. Hope you improve shortly! As
others have stated, it's nearly impossible to overdose on Koizyme. They're
bioengineered bacteria, and if they don't have a food source, they simply
die. They're programmed to die (anyway) in 3 days, which is why you have to
treat every 3 days in the beginning, then once a week for maintenance. If
your pond "calculates" to 3,000 gallons or so, it's a pretty safe bet that
it's actually less. Initially, I'd treat it as if it's 3,000; once you get
to the maintenance level, try 2,000 gallons. I usually just shake up the
bottle and pour a quick "glunk" in the pond. Remember to keep it
refrigerated: the biobugs will hibernate and last longer than if the bottle
is room temp. And NEVER let it get hot! You won't have to use it during the
winter when the water cools, but it is *imperative* that you start using it
as soon as the water gets into the 50's to prevent the aeromonas/pseudomonas
(ulcer-causing bacteria) from getting a start on the fish before their
immune system kicks in.

Hope you feel better!

Lee

"Nedra" wrote in message
thlink.net...
I'm ready to be scolded or flamed ... whatever! I just got
my order of KoiZyme from KoiVet. I notice that I have to
know how many gallons of water are in the pond in order to
treat it. ... and here is the problem. My health has taken a
nosedive - I can't do
anything around the pond except water changes and adding
Koi Clay, Amquel etc.
Therefore, doing the testing to see how many gallons of water are
in the pond is not possible.
Can I ball park the dosage of KoiZyme - you know, treat
the pond using 2,000 gallons instead of a real number?
I thought the pond was a 3,000 gallons but now I'm not sure.

Nedra

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
Yea Koizyme! It's cheap insurance compared to the alternative. There are
only 2 things I routinely add (weekly) to the pond: clay and Koizyme.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I've got a cycled sick tank with a filter on it, so water is good and
I
can
maintain the salt up and feed MediKoi just to the sick fish. From what
I
can see the ulcer is white. There is one under the dorsal fin that is
hard
to see, it was the worst, so I'll keep an eye on it for a bit.

As far as KoiZyme, I agree! Been using it since this all started and
next
year I'll be putting it in before problems arise. I'm really sold on
that
stuff now. ~ jan

On 29 Jul 2003 08:47:06 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:

You should be seeing signs that the ulcer is healing by now (getting
white-ish around the edges, maybe a "film" of new skin?) Photos I've
seen
indicate perhaps 25-50% healing in 2 weeks, depending on the initial
size.
Everything I've read says to return the fish to his "home" after the
final
treatment: usually, "home" has the best water quality, and the fish
likes
to
be back in its normal surroundings with its friends, so there's a
psychological benefit, also. (For those that may be reading this and
thinking that I'm anthropomorphizing, I'm not: koi are community fish
and
sulk if left alone - they like company.) Of course, water quality
should
be
top notch (if it's your pond, I'm not worried, but if it's someone
else's
pond, it needs to be emphasized). Me? I'd get some Koizyme (formerly
Lymnozyme) in there, too: you can't have too much help.

Good luck!
Lee

snip
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 24 Jul 2003 08:12:11 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:


All fish in the pond are looking good too, I am wondering if I can
relax
yet?

Can anyone tell me how long it might take an ucler the size of a
quarter
to
heal up? Should one wait till it is completely healed before
returning
fish
to pond with its buddies? ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

If you run to West Virginia for any length of time be sure to go west of
Grant County. This year we are getting lots of rain but usually we get very
little. And if you are a gardener, the soil is awful!!

Oh to be back in Michigan!!!
"FBCS" wrote in message
...
Not me!
We are Marylanders and are always running to West VA.
"K30a" wrote in message
...
BV wrote All of my in-laws now live in MD, as of two weeks ago. I
think
what
you are
saying is I am actually dead?

So Heaven is in Maryland, who'da thought?
;-)


k30a