Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even planting a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain and I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am going to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot to keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

We have all struggled with the labor of 'the hole'. Yours sounds
particularly messy. May you finish and get to enjoy it this year.

We used carpet for the sub-liner for the falls (main pond is concrete), but
did not have to face shale. The synthetic carpet has help up well, but over
20 years, one layer would probably not stay in good shape. Can't say what
your shale would do over 20 years with rotten carpet only as buffer between
it and the liner. Maybe someone selse will have better knowledge. A lot
depends on the size and sharpness of the shale!

We look forward to seeing your pond...this year?

Good luck.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

I don't have shale either but I can tell you what I used as food for
thought. I put down sound sand to smooth things out. Then I put down lots of
old newspaper probably 1/4" thick. Then a layer of carpeting it was a
beautiful brown then the EPDM liner.

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in
message . ..
We have all struggled with the labor of 'the hole'. Yours sounds
particularly messy. May you finish and get to enjoy it this year.

We used carpet for the sub-liner for the falls (main pond is concrete),
but
did not have to face shale. The synthetic carpet has help up well, but
over
20 years, one layer would probably not stay in good shape. Can't say what
your shale would do over 20 years with rotten carpet only as buffer
between
it and the liner. Maybe someone selse will have better knowledge. A lot
depends on the size and sharpness of the shale!

We look forward to seeing your pond...this year?

Good luck.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the
hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even
planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain
and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard
to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 06:23:33 -0400, "pixi" wrote:


I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

A pond is just a pond. Creating and caring for a pond is an end in itself.
Don't set deadlines. Relax and enjoy creating it!

Bob

You sure are a patient person! Your prepond stage is lasting a long time.

You might want to do a search in
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en for old posts in
rec.ponds. I found a few folks who purposely put down crushed shale and a
poster who had shale and used underlayment first. Maybe you could email
them and ask how it's working so far? If you do go with carpet, I would
say make sure it synthetic so it doesn't break down so quick. I would also
say using 2 layers on the bottom and on the shelves would be an idea as
that's where I do most of my walking/stepping. Sorry, you'll need to dig
the shelves slightly deeper to accommodate the thickness of the extra
padding.

Another thought, pounding the shale into smaller pieces?

Advise given to me while I was digging the pond and getting frustrated, "As
you hold your shovel and dig another few inches of soil, keep envisioning
the fish that will be swimming in this wonderful pond."

--
Wendy* in N. California,
"You can build a throne with bayonets, but you can't sit on it for
ng." - Boris Yeltsin


"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

I look forward to seeing it this year too.

Don't need to worry too much about the carpet underlay lasting 20 years. I
am 79 and my doctor laughs himself silly whenever he hears of my latest
exploits.

Thanks.
"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in
message . ..
We have all struggled with the labor of 'the hole'. Yours sounds
particularly messy. May you finish and get to enjoy it this year.

We used carpet for the sub-liner for the falls (main pond is concrete),
but
did not have to face shale. The synthetic carpet has help up well, but
over
20 years, one layer would probably not stay in good shape. Can't say what
your shale would do over 20 years with rotten carpet only as buffer
between
it and the liner. Maybe someone selse will have better knowledge. A lot
depends on the size and sharpness of the shale!

We look forward to seeing your pond...this year?

Good luck.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the
hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even
planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain
and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard
to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

Wow! Go Pixie!

We are kids by comparison.

J

--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"pixi" wrote in message
...
I look forward to seeing it this year too.

Don't need to worry too much about the carpet underlay lasting 20 years.
I
am 79 and my doctor laughs himself silly whenever he hears of my latest
exploits.

Thanks.
"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in
message . ..
We have all struggled with the labor of 'the hole'. Yours sounds
particularly messy. May you finish and get to enjoy it this year.

We used carpet for the sub-liner for the falls (main pond is concrete),
but
did not have to face shale. The synthetic carpet has help up well, but
over
20 years, one layer would probably not stay in good shape. Can't say
what
your shale would do over 20 years with rotten carpet only as buffer
between
it and the liner. Maybe someone selse will have better knowledge. A
lot
depends on the size and sharpness of the shale!

We look forward to seeing your pond...this year?

Good luck.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated
with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the
hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even
planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain
and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am
going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot
to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard
to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish
me
luck. Pixi

I have done my one large pond more than once (don't ask). The first time I
put down paper and when I went in the second time that paper had entirely
gone back to the earth. I won't ever trust paper as a liner again. The
carpet I put in the second time was entirely intact when I moved the liner
from that pond to another (pond bug made me do it) and served very well as
a buffer between the liner and roots and rocks I could not remove. The only
think negative that I heard when I was asking about using it is that if you
have overlapping edges that make for a heavy seam that this can cause a
weakness in the liner at the seam. Don't know if this is true since I
haven't had any problem with what I have. DK
"Mickey" wrote in message
...
I don't have shale either but I can tell you what I used as food for
thought. I put down sound sand to smooth things out. Then I put down lots
of
old newspaper probably 1/4" thick. Then a layer of carpeting it was a
beautiful brown then the EPDM liner.

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in
message . ..
We have all struggled with the labor of 'the hole'. Yours sounds
particularly messy. May you finish and get to enjoy it this year.

We used carpet for the sub-liner for the falls (main pond is concrete),
but
did not have to face shale. The synthetic carpet has help up well, but
over
20 years, one layer would probably not stay in good shape. Can't say
what
your shale would do over 20 years with rotten carpet only as buffer
between
it and the liner. Maybe someone selse will have better knowledge. A
lot
depends on the size and sharpness of the shale!

We look forward to seeing your pond...this year?

Good luck.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per jogger) at:
www.jogathon.net
See our pond at: http://www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-jameshurley
"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated
with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the
hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even
planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain
and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am
going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot
to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard
to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish
me
luck. Pixi

Without even reading your post, I can safely say, No.

"pixi" wrote in message
...
Is old carpeting an adequate underliner when the soil is permeated with
broken shale?

I have been working on this !@#$ pond for almost a year now. Got the hole
dug last September via backhoe. We have groundhog shale, so even planting
a
shrub is backbreaking work. Then it started to rain and rain and rain and
I
had to quit for the winter.

So this year I have hired a young teenager to help. We have finally
gotten it leveled and the waterfall form is dug out. T oday I am going
to
angle the shelves so that stones won't fall into the pond.

Then out come the concrete blocks that I have been using for a pivot to
keep
the edges even. And that lucky teenager will get to shovel the loose
shale
out of the bottom.

Don't know if we'll get the terrace flagstoned this year or not. My
neighbor gave me tons of flagstone and I have to get it from his yard to
mine before he forgets he gave it to me and it disappears.

Well, I'm rambling. So will close.

I'm beginning to hope that the pond will be finished this year. Wish me
luck. Pixi

"dkat" wrote in message news:xWzUa.171074
The
carpet I put in the second time was entirely intact when I moved the liner
from that pond to another (pond bug made me do it) and served very well as
a buffer between the liner and roots and rocks I could not remove. The
only
think negative that I heard when I was asking about using it is that if you
have overlapping edges that make for a heavy seam that this can cause a
weakness in the liner at the seam. Don't know if this is true since I
haven't had any problem with what I have.

I also used carpet. Mostly because it was free I have not had to redo my
enitre pond, but I need to lift up one edge once because it settled too
much.,The carpet was underneath was fine. It also made working along the
edge easier, because the carpet gave me a margin of error - I am pretty much
a klutz, and with a shovel it would have been easy for me to damage my
liner.

Angie