Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #16   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:37 PM
MattO
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.


"Timothy Tom" wrote in message
om...
Thank you all for your thoughts. The pond has always been refilled
using an auto-refill valve put in by the original landscaper who
installed the pond. The fact that fish lived in a bowl of the same
treated tap-water that is used to fill the pond suggests to me that
the problem does not lie in the municipal water source. It is
possible that it has something to do with the auto-refill I suppose.


Axolotl said:
How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler
mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap
and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned
the automatic system back on.

I think Axolotl was on to something.
Not the water itself, but something in the auto-refill plumbing.
Willing to risk 1 more fish? Try filling pond from a hose?
~MattO


  #17   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:37 PM
GD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Which dechlorinating/conditioning product did you use? How much did
you put in the goldfish bowl and what is the goldfish bowl volume?
How much did you put in the 150 gallon pond? And, how are you
acclimating the new fish prior to stocking?


Theron wrote:


(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.


A couple of questions.

I read that you have put goldfish in your preform that you had in a
bowl with the same declorinator/ conditioning solution that you use in
your preform. Did you get your water from the same source? That is,
when you fill your preform, I am assuming that you fill it with a hose
or its dedicated water source. Is this correct? I have seen garden
hoses break down chemically over time and become toxic.
The same with underground sprinkler systems.
Let get rid of that variable also. Try to use the same source of water
that you used for the goldfish that you had in the bowl.

Theron


  #18   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:37 PM
Lee Brouillet
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

"Went to sleep" on the problem last night, and two other things occured to
me that you might check: one is stray voltage . . .are your
pumps/electricals plugged into GFCI outlets? One way to find out is if you
stick your hand in the water, do you feel a buzz? Alternatively, you may
just be getting intermitent spikes down the line. The other thing is your
filter material: is there a chance that it went toxic on you during the down
time? May I "assume" that your yard has not been recently treated for
"whatever", nor your neighbors' (wind-borne stuff)?

Lee

"Timothy Tom" wrote in message
om...
To address the power-washer concerns, the washer has been used by me
only. It has only had water used in it. Nothing else, nada, no
detergents, no fertilizer, nothing except water from a hose receiving
the same municipal water. As far as what the fish look like when I
put them in. This does cause me some concern. When I first put the
fish in, it appears as if something really irritates them. Most of
the fish I have witnessed appear to intermittently dart around for
about 2-3 min, and then appear to settle to the bottom in a upright
(i.e. apparently resting) position. One of the goldfish that was
first added, I found had actually jumped out of the pond. I put it
back in, and it died within 10 mins. I have then witnessed several
fish die within 10-20 min. I think this makes it clear that there is
no other creature/critter involved in killing them. It further seems
to support some toxin/strong irritant killing them. Upon dying, I
have really not noticed any redness anywhere on the fish. They simply
look completely normal except they are limp and dead.



  #19   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:37 PM
Sam Hopkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Place a fish in the pond. If he dies scoop some water out of the pond and
place in a bowl. Next place fish #2 in the bowl. If he dies you rule out any
type of power issue and rule in a chemical problem. If he doesn't die you
rule out chemical problem and rule in power problem.

Sam


wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



  #21   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:38 PM
BenignVanilla
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message news:bh0er4
snip
As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by
the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont
remember the number or the units) but not deadly.


Should be zero, of course.

snip

I have been thinking about this, but lurking out of fear of ignorance
but...If the fish only last 10 minutes, how is ANY ammonia getting in there?
I suspect the water filler system. Sam's idea of using a bowl of water from
the pond is a good idea, to rule out electrical issues.

BV.


  #22   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:38 PM
Donald Kerns
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

BenignVanilla wrote:

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message news:bh0er4
snip
As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by
the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont
remember the number or the units) but not deadly.


Should be zero, of course.

snip

I have been thinking about this, but lurking out of fear of ignorance
but...If the fish only last 10 minutes, how is ANY ammonia getting in
there?


You can get ammonia if the water company is using chloramine and you are
using a normal dechlorinator. The dechlorinator strips the chlorine
out, leaving ammonia.

AmQuel is recommended in this situation...

-Donald
--
"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so
gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales
  #23   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:38 PM
Axolotl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Andrew Burgess wrote in news:bh0er4$m4e$2
@athlon.cichlid.com:

(Timothy Tom) writes:

As far as the water parameters,
recently the temp has been around 83 degrees.



I missed the temperature posting, that does seem hot but when looked in the
following discussion
(
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...057203893.html) they
seemed to think that 90F for GF and 85F for shubunkins was OK.
Whereas these guys (http://www.goldfishparadise.com/water/temperature.php)
seem to think that 86F is the max.

Did I read you correctly somewhere back in this thread in saying that the
fish survive quite nicely when placed in a container with your tap water?

I think we need to setup some form of checklist in order to tackle this
problem systematically, but before we get to that. I have some questions:
· How is your pond constructed?
· What furniture does it have (rocks, plants, planters, waterfalls etc)
· Between discovering that the auto-filler hand been turn off and
turning it back on, what if anything did you do (filter cleaning, moving or
changing plants)?
· Where does the auto filler get its water from? I remember seeing
somebody who had an automatic fill system that did not use tap water, it
was connected to a tank/cistern that collected rain water (try to be
environmentally friendly) they ran into a problem when the cistern became
contaminated, I their case it was a dead animal I think.


some ideas on testing to find problem, if anybody has a better one speak
up.

1. Does a fish survive if placed in tap water (say from kitchen tap)?
a. If yes go on to (2).
b. If no you have a domestic water problem (too much chlorine,
municipality using something other than chlorine, contamination of your
water supply)

2. Does a fish survive if placed in water drawn from the auto-filler
(water is put directly into same container use in (1)?
a. If yes, then the problem would seem to be with the pond and its
fitting/landscaping.
b. If no, then the auto-filler seems to introducing some form of
contamination.

3. Fill the pond from some source other than the auto-filler, suggest
same source as in one. Let it stand for 48 hours. Does a fish survive if
placed in a container of water taken from the pond? This test would confirm
test 2.
a. Yes, the problem is definitely with the auto-filler.
b. No, both pond and auto-filler are the problem. It maybe that the pond
and its furniture have been contaminated by the auto-filler. My suggestion
at this point would be to remove all pond furniture and clean the pond
using the water source in (1). DO NOT put the pond furniture back, refill
it using water source as in (1) and try this test again. If the fish
survive this time its some part of the furniture. You could try cleaning
each piece and hope that you've got rid of the offending material, but I
would be inclined to dump them and start with new stuff.

Hope this helps.

Axolotl

  #24   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:39 PM
jammer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:15:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Burgess
wrote:

(Timothy Tom) writes:

As far as the water parameters,
recently the temp has been around 83 degrees.


I've never seen my pond that hot. Since no one else has commented
I suppose you hot weather folks see this all the time with no problems?
Otherwise, I'd shade it until it dropped 10 degrees and try again.

As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by
the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont
remember the number or the units) but not deadly.


Should be zero, of course.

The fact that this
pond and all equipment, and rocks in it supported fish successfully
for the past two years, is what is so confusing and frustrating for
me. I will try to test for some of the other parameter mentioned.


For the water temperature, is the shading any different?


My pond stays 10 degrees cooler being shaded in the afternoon and i
am one of those hot weather folks in Texas.

  #25   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:39 PM
Sue Walsh
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

I just reread your initial post and while I am not up on all of the
technical pond stuff, I just tried to think logically and this is my 2
cents worth (may be only worth a penny!)

Theory 1: I am wondering if it could be some contamination (bacterial)
of the pump units themselves, which occurred within the initial time
when the self filling unit was off or turned back on again. (The
initial problem with the refill unit may have been what killed the
first fish and then the continuing contamination could have taken the
rest). I have read that you cleaned everything, however I didn't see
where you said you cleaned the pumps. Have you taken the pumps out
and cleaned them and also looked to see if there is anything lodged in
them? If not, these units may be recontaminating the water each time
you refill. To see if this is the problem, you could put water in a
bucket, treat with declor etc, add fish. If fish is ok, WITHOUT
CLEANING THE PUMP add it to the bucket with the same water and fish
still in there (do not plug it in or turn it on which does away with
electrical issues) and see what happens. You may want to use a
battery powered air stone in this test from the beginning to eliminate
oxygen deprivation as an added problem since the time frame will be
fairly long. If fish dies, remove pump and clean and retest, starting
with the water and fish only to make sure fish is OK. Then again add
the now cleaned pump, if fish dies clean it again and retest or
replace it.

In your last test when you did not have any electrical items turned
on, were the pumps still in the pond even thou not turned on? Did you
have them circulate the water before turning off? If so, above
contamination theory may be possible. It seemed to me in the last
test you posted, it took the fish a little longer to die and that may
have been (if my scenario is on target) if the pumps were off, could
be the bacteria was not circulated and that could slow the process of
death. However in this instance it could also have been lack of
oxygen. If you redo this test with or without the pumps, add a
battery operated air stone to do away with the possibility of oxygen
deprivation.

Theory 2: Fish, have all of your test fish come from the same source,
perhaps the fish themselves are the problem. If so, try a new source
of test fish to see if that is the case.

Of course you realize we are all grasping at straws at this time,
especially me without experience here. Anyway that's my penny's
worth…

Sue W


wrote in message ...
(Timothy Tom) wrote:

UPDATE

The pond water was changed (for about the 8th time). All rocks were
removed. A dechlorinator and chloramine remover was added. The water
was mixed and sat overnight. A goldfish was acclimated (sat in bag in
pond 1 hour, followed by adding approx. 1/2 cup pond water to bag,
followed by a cup in 45 min, followed by release into pond 30 min
later. NO electrical devices plugged in. FISH DEAD IN TWO HOURS. I
am now totally at a loss. The only possible variables not controlled
now is the liner in the pond, the pumps leaching some toxic substance,
or the temp in the pond being too hot. As mentioned earlier the same
tap water was used to keep goldfish alive in a gallon container for a
week.




  #26   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 10:02 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

yep, that is very suspicious. Ingrid

"Lee Brouillet" wrote:
Because the fish lived in the same water in the house, but died
when placed in the pond, it leads me to believe some of the simple things

--- , fish stress in the bag (ammonia?
heat from the sun?)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
  #27   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2003, 04:32 PM
Timothy Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system.
Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance
could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through
the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e.
filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing
goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the
auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the
city water supply).

Thanks,
Timothy
  #29   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:07 AM
RichToyBox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Brett,

Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter
system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit,
before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier,
charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two
seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was
swimming pool safe.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Brett Fogle" wrote in message
om...
(Timothy Tom) wrote in message

. com...
Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system.
Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance
could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through
the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e.
filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing
goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the
auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the
city water supply).

Thanks,
Timothy



Timothy,

Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are
developing?

It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins
(metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)?

Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback.

You can contact me at


Good luck either way,

Thanks,

Brett



  #30   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:07 AM
RichToyBox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Brett,

Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter
system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit,
before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier,
charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two
seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was
swimming pool safe.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Brett Fogle" wrote in message
om...
(Timothy Tom) wrote in message

. com...
Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system.
Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance
could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through
the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e.
filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing
goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the
auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the
city water supply).

Thanks,
Timothy



Timothy,

Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are
developing?

It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins
(metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)?

Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback.

You can contact me at


Good luck either way,

Thanks,

Brett



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sunflower + others dead/droopy/soft within hours freshage United Kingdom 10 27-05-2011 07:58 PM
Slug bait kills earthworms too, which in turn kills birds and other wildlife. So dont do it Hamish United Kingdom 1 22-07-2004 01:30 AM
Slug bait kills earthworms too, that kills birds, especially robins and blackbirds, not to mention b Hamish United Kingdom 0 22-07-2004 01:27 AM
Slug bait kills earthworms too, that kills birds, especially robins and blackbirds Hamish United Kingdom 0 22-07-2004 01:27 AM
Slug bait kills earthworms too, that kills birds Hamish United Kingdom 0 22-07-2004 01:27 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017