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  #17   Report Post  
Old 27-08-2003, 04:02 PM
Shane Kennedy
 
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Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

where can i find cheap roofing liner online
i've found countless online pond liner dealers
but am having troubles finding the roofing material
i need 2x 50x100' rolls, which i probably won't find @ the local bigbox
thx
sk
  #18   Report Post  
Old 27-08-2003, 11:02 PM
Gregory Young
 
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Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

Let's see:
$385 plus shipping. I just ordered 2 rolls of 30 x 50 liner that went 474
pounds each, and paid $110 in shipping. Using that ballpark, it would be
about $55 per 475 - 500 # shipping from that company to my zone.
$385 plus $50 is $435.
$289 for the other rubber material, plus 8% tax comes to $312.12
I would save $122.88, which is considerable!
In my case however that savings is a little less the price of one of my
juvenile Koi, and I have more than one to worry about.
I would not want to skimp on the liner, esp. after my conversation with
Firestone, and risk future loss of my koi when they are larger and worth
considerably more in a few years, (both financially and emotionally).
GF, or "regular" American Koi become pets, which you wouldn't want to lose,
even if less costly.
Also have torn up one improperly (commercially installed) pond once due to a
liner issue, I would never, ever, want to go through that again!!
I am reminded of the old adage "penny wise, pound foolish".
But, each to their own!
Happy ponding,
Greg
PS Because some have had no problems with a non-certified product, doesn't
assure that you may/may not.
The real take home message is despite some of the info. posted in the NG,
there ARE manufacturing differences in the 2 Firestone products (PondGard vs
Rubbergard (roofing rubber)), which I confirmed in talking to Firestone
directly.
If folks feel this is not significant, compared to the initial savings they
will get by using the non certified product, that's up to them. Caveat
emptor.



"Theron" wrote in message
...
On 25 Aug 2003 08:38:03 -0700,
(Shane
Kennedy) wrote:

how much cheaper is the roofing liner compared to the pond liner?

I just checked prices on the web and found that a 20x50 PondGard liner
would cost $385.00 plus shipping. It weighs 310 lbs. Or from another
place $562.00 plus shipping.
I can get Firestone roofing rubber in the same size from a local 'big
box' home improvement store for $289.00 with no shipping.



  #19   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 12:02 AM
Andrew Burgess
 
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Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

"Gregory Young" writes:

$385 plus shipping. I just ordered 2 rolls of 30 x 50 liner that went 474
pounds each, and paid $110 in shipping. Using that ballpark, it would be
about $55 per 475 - 500 # shipping from that company to my zone.
$385 plus $50 is $435.
$289 for the other rubber material, plus 8% tax comes to $312.12
I would save $122.88, which is considerable!


You do have to go get the roofing liner. They'll probably help you load
it. Not worth $122 maybe but something...


  #20   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 03:24 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

GY (Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:56:23 GMT):
30x50 liner... that went 474 pounds each


So why not permalon and you won't have to worry about leaching at all.
And man, it's a heck of a lot lighter than that. 474 pounds... I can
roll 500 lbs, but it could roll me (flat), too. 30x20 permalon I could
pick up and toss around, easy.

I've got pond gard up in the filter but the rest is permalon, factory
direct at $0.22 sq ft (1997).

http://www.reefindustries.com/

http://www.reefindustries.com/php/pondline.php

Houston
--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD


  #21   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 06:02 PM
Andrew Burgess
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

() writes:

GY (Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:56:23 GMT):
30x50 liner... that went 474 pounds each


So why not permalon and you won't have to worry about leaching at all.
And man, it's a heck of a lot lighter than that. 474 pounds... I can
roll 500 lbs, but it could roll me (flat), too. 30x20 permalon I could
pick up and toss around, easy.


Yep, weight is a problem with EPDM in bugger sizes.

Can you do the pipe boot trick with permalon?
If not you must add a few bulkhead fittings, and the big
ones cost BIG.

I've got pond gard up in the filter but the rest is permalon, factory
direct at $0.22 sq ft (1997).


http://www.reefindustries.com/
http://www.reefindustries.com/php/pondline.php


Couldn't find prices, I wonder if they insist on phone?

  #22   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 11:06 PM
Gregory Young
 
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Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr plus
guarantee as well.
I didn't get into a discussion of it, only because the questions posed were
EPDM PondGard vs EPDM Rubbergard.
Happy ponding,
Greg
(I ordered the EPDM above because 2 of our club members insisted on it, not
wanting either Permalon or Xavan)
--


wrote in message
...
GY (Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:56:23 GMT):
30x50 liner... that went 474 pounds each


So why not permalon and you won't have to worry about leaching at all.
And man, it's a heck of a lot lighter than that. 474 pounds... I can
roll 500 lbs, but it could roll me (flat), too. 30x20 permalon I could
pick up and toss around, easy.

I've got pond gard up in the filter but the rest is permalon, factory
direct at $0.22 sq ft (1997).

http://www.reefindustries.com/

http://www.reefindustries.com/php/pondline.php

Houston
--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD



  #23   Report Post  
Old 29-08-2003, 01:04 AM
Andrew Burgess
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr plus
guarantee as well.


Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I think
either will wear out.

  #24   Report Post  
Old 29-08-2003, 10:02 PM
Gregory Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr

plus
guarantee as well.


Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I

think
either will wear out.



  #25   Report Post  
Old 30-08-2003, 03:02 AM
Nedra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!


Contact Kenco for Permalon. I don't have his url
handy ... someone else post it, please?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces

the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the

owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr

plus
guarantee as well.


Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I

think
either will wear out.







  #26   Report Post  
Old 01-09-2003, 01:02 PM
pixi
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

What is a pipe boot?


"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces

the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the

owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr

plus
guarantee as well.


Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I

think
either will wear out.





  #27   Report Post  
Old 01-09-2003, 04:42 PM
~ jan JJsPond.us
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

www.kencofish.com Permalon ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
  #28   Report Post  
Old 01-09-2003, 07:12 PM
Nedra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

Pipe boot... the index is on left side ;-)

http://www.geocities.com/bickal2000/pond.htm

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"pixi" wrote in message
...
What is a pipe boot?


"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in

commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back

and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces

the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the

owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than

EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner

materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr

plus
guarantee as well.

Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy

enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I

think
either will wear out.







  #29   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2003, 02:02 AM
Andrew Burgess
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

~ jan JJsPond.us writes:

www.kencofish.com Permalon ~ jan


That's where I got the one year warranty idea.

http://www.kencofish.com/hardgood.htm says:

"1 yr. unconditional warr"

  #30   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2003, 03:14 AM
Nedra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pond Guard vs roofing liner - Firestone's answer!

Andrew,
It took me two readings of Ken's online before I saw
the sentence which, BTW, is in quotes. Therefore, I'm wondering
if the company has this warranty? I've known Ken for
at least 6 years and he errs on the side of giving the liner
away.

I would still go ahead and contact him if I needed
Permalon!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
~ jan JJsPond.us writes:

www.kencofish.com Permalon ~ jan


That's where I got the one year warranty idea.

http://www.kencofish.com/hardgood.htm says:

"1 yr. unconditional warr"





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