On 25 Aug 2003 08:38:03 -0700, (Shane
Kennedy) wrote:

how much cheaper is the roofing liner compared to the pond liner?
I just checked prices on the web and found that a 20x50 PondGard liner
would cost $385.00 plus shipping. It weighs 310 lbs. Or from another
place $562.00 plus shipping.
I can get Firestone roofing rubber in the same size from a local 'big
box' home improvement store for $289.00 with no shipping.

where can i find cheap roofing liner online
i've found countless online pond liner dealers
but am having troubles finding the roofing material
i need 2x 50x100' rolls, which i probably won't find @ the local bigbox
thx
sk

Let's see:
$385 plus shipping. I just ordered 2 rolls of 30 x 50 liner that went 474
pounds each, and paid $110 in shipping. Using that ballpark, it would be
about $55 per 475 - 500 # shipping from that company to my zone.
$385 plus $50 is $435.
$289 for the other rubber material, plus 8% tax comes to $312.12
I would save $122.88, which is considerable!
In my case however that savings is a little less the price of one of my
juvenile Koi, and I have more than one to worry about.
I would not want to skimp on the liner, esp. after my conversation with
Firestone, and risk future loss of my koi when they are larger and worth
considerably more in a few years, (both financially and emotionally).
GF, or "regular" American Koi become pets, which you wouldn't want to lose,
even if less costly.
Also have torn up one improperly (commercially installed) pond once due to a
liner issue, I would never, ever, want to go through that again!!
I am reminded of the old adage "penny wise, pound foolish".
But, each to their own!
Happy ponding,
Greg
PS Because some have had no problems with a non-certified product, doesn't
assure that you may/may not.
The real take home message is despite some of the info. posted in the NG,
there ARE manufacturing differences in the 2 Firestone products (PondGard vs
Rubbergard (roofing rubber)), which I confirmed in talking to Firestone
directly.
If folks feel this is not significant, compared to the initial savings they
will get by using the non certified product, that's up to them. Caveat
emptor.



"Theron" wrote in message
...
On 25 Aug 2003 08:38:03 -0700, (Shane
Kennedy) wrote:

how much cheaper is the roofing liner compared to the pond liner?
I just checked prices on the web and found that a 20x50 PondGard liner
would cost $385.00 plus shipping. It weighs 310 lbs. Or from another
place $562.00 plus shipping.
I can get Firestone roofing rubber in the same size from a local 'big
box' home improvement store for $289.00 with no shipping.

"Gregory Young" writes:

$385 plus shipping. I just ordered 2 rolls of 30 x 50 liner that went 474
pounds each, and paid $110 in shipping. Using that ballpark, it would be
about $55 per 475 - 500 # shipping from that company to my zone.
$385 plus $50 is $435.
$289 for the other rubber material, plus 8% tax comes to $312.12
I would save $122.88, which is considerable!

You do have to go get the roofing liner. They'll probably help you load
it. Not worth $122 maybe but something...

GY (Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:56:23 GMT):
30x50 liner... that went 474 pounds each

So why not permalon and you won't have to worry about leaching at all.
And man, it's a heck of a lot lighter than that. 474 pounds... I can
roll 500 lbs, but it could roll me (flat), too. 30x20 permalon I could
pick up and toss around, easy.

I've got pond gard up in the filter but the rest is permalon, factory
direct at $0.22 sq ft (1997).

http://www.reefindustries.com/

http://www.reefindustries.com/php/pondline.php

Houston
--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD

() writes:

GY (Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:56:23 GMT):
30x50 liner... that went 474 pounds each

So why not permalon and you won't have to worry about leaching at all.
And man, it's a heck of a lot lighter than that. 474 pounds... I can
roll 500 lbs, but it could roll me (flat), too. 30x20 permalon I could
pick up and toss around, easy.

Yep, weight is a problem with EPDM in bugger sizes.

Can you do the pipe boot trick with permalon?
If not you must add a few bulkhead fittings, and the big
ones cost BIG.

I've got pond gard up in the filter but the rest is permalon, factory
direct at $0.22 sq ft (1997).

http://www.reefindustries.com/
http://www.reefindustries.com/php/pondline.php

Couldn't find prices, I wonder if they insist on phone?

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr plus
guarantee as well.
I didn't get into a discussion of it, only because the questions posed were
EPDM PondGard vs EPDM Rubbergard.
Happy ponding,
Greg
(I ordered the EPDM above because 2 of our club members insisted on it, not
wanting either Permalon or Xavan)
--


wrote in message
...
GY (Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:56:23 GMT):
30x50 liner... that went 474 pounds each

So why not permalon and you won't have to worry about leaching at all.
And man, it's a heck of a lot lighter than that. 474 pounds... I can
roll 500 lbs, but it could roll me (flat), too. 30x20 permalon I could
pick up and toss around, easy.

I've got pond gard up in the filter but the rest is permalon, factory
direct at $0.22 sq ft (1997).

http://www.reefindustries.com/

http://www.reefindustries.com/php/pondline.php

Houston
--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD

"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr plus
guarantee as well.

Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I think
either will wear out.

Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr
plus
guarantee as well.

Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I
think
either will wear out.

Contact Kenco for Permalon. I don't have his url
handy ... someone else post it, please?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces
the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the
owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr
plus
guarantee as well.

Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I
think
either will wear out.

What is a pipe boot?


"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces
the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the
owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr
plus
guarantee as well.

Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I
think
either will wear out.

www.kencofish.com Permalon ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Pipe boot... the index is on left side ;-)

http://www.geocities.com/bickal2000/pond.htm

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"pixi" wrote in message
...
What is a pipe boot?


"Gregory Young" wrote in message
t...
Yes, you can use a pipe boot with Permalon.
Remember if you use adhesives with permalon to not use rubber adhesives
(EPDM type!)
Material guarantee is 20 plus years, depending on where you get it.
I have never heard of a one year guarantee, except perhaps in
commercially
installed ponds, (where they would go broke if they guaranteed all their
ponds for 20 years, as their guarantee would require them coming back
and
fixing them for the owners).
With a material guarantee, the manufacturer/distributor simply replaces
the
warranted material with another piece. The installation is up to the
owner!
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gregory Young" writes:

Permalon is the way to go, but when I priced it, it was more than
EPDM.
Permalon is HDPE, and is one of the strongest, lightest liner
materials
available for use today. Also has great UV resistance. It has a 20 yr
plus
guarantee as well.

Can you use the pipe boot trick with Permalon -- is it stretchy
enough?

Are you sure about the guarantee, I thought it was 1 year. Not that I
think
either will wear out.

~ jan JJsPond.us writes:

www.kencofish.com Permalon ~ jan

That's where I got the one year warranty idea.

http://www.kencofish.com/hardgood.htm says:

"1 yr. unconditional warr"

Andrew,
It took me two readings of Ken's online before I saw
the sentence which, BTW, is in quotes. Therefore, I'm wondering
if the company has this warranty? I've known Ken for
at least 6 years and he errs on the side of giving the liner
away.

I would still go ahead and contact him if I needed
Permalon!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
~ jan JJsPond.us writes:

www.kencofish.com Permalon ~ jan

That's where I got the one year warranty idea.

http://www.kencofish.com/hardgood.htm says:

"1 yr. unconditional warr"