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#1
05-09-2003, 08:02 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
I have two large ponds, One pond is higher than the other (only
slightly) and runs into the other pond. There is then a pump that takes the water through a filter then back to the top pond. My water have been tested for Amonia, Nitrate and Nitite, and all read zero. The strange problem is the fish is the bottom pond have started to Die. They stop eating, stay at the bottom of the pond them come to the top to dye, twitching and listing as they go. They look very healthy apart from clamped fins. There are no visible parasites like flukes or Ich. This is not the first time it has happened. last time I think I stemmed it by adding salt or it may just be coincedence(parasite / bacteria medications have no effect) it went away so I restocked and now 5 months down the line I'm here again. any ideas ? remember the top pond is never effected ? MIKE |
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#2
05-09-2003, 08:02 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
If another shows symptoms I would catch it and toss in a Q tank with new
water and see if it's the pond water that's doing it. Have you checked your PH? Sam "Gallandro" wrote in message om... I have two large ponds, One pond is higher than the other (only slightly) and runs into the other pond. There is then a pump that takes the water through a filter then back to the top pond. My water have been tested for Amonia, Nitrate and Nitite, and all read zero. The strange problem is the fish is the bottom pond have started to Die. They stop eating, stay at the bottom of the pond them come to the top to dye, twitching and listing as they go. They look very healthy apart from clamped fins. There are no visible parasites like flukes or Ich. This is not the first time it has happened. last time I think I stemmed it by adding salt or it may just be coincedence(parasite / bacteria medications have no effect) it went away so I restocked and now 5 months down the line I'm here again. any ideas ? remember the top pond is never effected ? MIKE |
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#4
06-09-2003, 02:42 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
Pond Size in Gallons? (litres*.26=US Gallons): 4000 gallans Water Source (Well, Irrigation, City?) Collected Rain water If City how is water treated?: = N/A Time in Operation? 3 years (How old is the pond/water?): 3 years Liner type? (EPDM,PVC,RUBBER,Cement/Concrete etc): Rubber Fish Population? 20 10 top section 10 bottom Type? Size? QTY, Time in Pond: koi, dont know type, red white and black, 10cm in size lost first stock at 6 months, now loosing this new batch from 4 -5 months Food? Type and Frequency of feedings.: feed one a week on weatgerm in winter and in these summer monts every day with high protein Pump Type, IN/OUT of pond, GPH etc (Describe your filtration system as well as possible): not sure of make, turns over bottom water to top in about 4 hours airiation frovided by waterfall, both top and vottom use a gravel filter Prefilter media type? Last cleaned?: course gravel, 2 months Filter is BIO or Mechanical? Last cleaned? How?: gravel mech Bio Carbon added? How much? When last changed?: None Aeration? Waterfalls? Bubblers? waterfall causing disturbence Venturies?: none Water Temp? not sure will check .. 15 - 20 at a guess PH?: 8 Ammonia (ppm or mg/l): 0 Nitrite (ppm or mg/l): 0 Nitrate (ppm or mg/l): 0 - 0.1 Water Color, cloudiness, odor?: clear to slightly green Water changes? (% of pond volume and how often): rains alot hear so not sure Additives used (water conditioners etc): none Tests done by self or another?: self and other + shop Weather (what's it been like lately?): warm / sunny Medications used?: interpet bacteria medicen and interpaet fugal and interpet pasrasite What Zone or Country of residence?: England ~ jan weird thing is the top pond section is fine. ??? Thanks Mike |
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#5
06-09-2003, 02:42 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message ...
If another shows symptoms I would catch it and toss in a Q tank with new water and see if it's the pond water that's doing it. Have you checked your PH? Sam "Gallandro" wrote in message om... I have two large ponds, One pond is higher than the other (only slightly) and runs into the other pond. There is then a pump that takes the water through a filter then back to the top pond. My water have been tested for Amonia, Nitrate and Nitite, and all read zero. The strange problem is the fish is the bottom pond have started to Die. They stop eating, stay at the bottom of the pond them come to the top to dye, twitching and listing as they go. They look very healthy apart from clamped fins. There are no visible parasites like flukes or Ich. This is not the first time it has happened. last time I think I stemmed it by adding salt or it may just be coincedence(parasite / bacteria medications have no effect) it went away so I restocked and now 5 months down the line I'm here again. any ideas ? remember the top pond is never effected ? MIKE This was one of the first things tried. I have a large 440 ltr fush tank that I filled with water from neibers pond wich is OK, and fish still dies the same. No visual symptoms apart from fin clamping. No excess mucus colors, spots etc. look in good health. |
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#6
06-09-2003, 02:42 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
The only thing I can come up with is maybe it is Costia ? although
there is no redness or gulping for air. but they do go off there food, retreat to the bottom of the pond before comming up to die. |
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#7
06-09-2003, 04:02 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
If you are only having die off in the lower pond, then I would suspect some
type of ground runoff (pesticide?) that is collecting in the bottom pond but either from the filtering or exposure to air going into the upper pond does not or has not to this point made the concentration yet to bother the upper pond.... Are the liners different in the top vs bottom pond? Have you had any die off of the upper pond at all? What other differences are there between the top and bottom pond other than the level? DK "Gallandro" wrote in message om... I have two large ponds, One pond is higher than the other (only slightly) and runs into the other pond. There is then a pump that takes the water through a filter then back to the top pond. My water have been tested for Amonia, Nitrate and Nitite, and all read zero. The strange problem is the fish is the bottom pond have started to Die. They stop eating, stay at the bottom of the pond them come to the top to dye, twitching and listing as they go. They look very healthy apart from clamped fins. There are no visible parasites like flukes or Ich. This is not the first time it has happened. last time I think I stemmed it by adding salt or it may just be coincedence(parasite / bacteria medications have no effect) it went away so I restocked and now 5 months down the line I'm here again. any ideas ? remember the top pond is never effected ? MIKE |
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#8
06-09-2003, 04:32 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
From your earlier description of the two ponds: your system filters
water from the bottom pond and dumps that back into the top pond. Effectively, the water that supplies the bottom pond is unfiltered (it includes wastes from fish in the top pond. You state that ammonia is 0. Is this true of both ponds? And, have you checked the ammonia (and other parameters) after the fish began suffering? If ammonia levels exceed 0.5 mg/L, fish may clamp fins and are much more susceptile to disease and other environmental stresses. (Gallandro) wrote: The only thing I can come up with is maybe it is Costia ? although there is no redness or gulping for air. but they do go off there food, retreat to the bottom of the pond before comming up to die. |
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#9
06-09-2003, 07:02 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
Yes, good thinking. Something heavier than water. Perhaps you could get a
pump to the lowest point of the pond an pump out some of the water. Don't forget to add dechlor when you add water. Joe dkat wrote: If you are only having die off in the lower pond, then I would suspect some type of ground runoff (pesticide?) that is collecting in the bottom pond but either from the filtering or exposure to air going into the upper pond does not or has not to this point made the concentration yet to bother the upper pond.... -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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#10
06-09-2003, 11:13 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
The test run on Amonia and Nitrate/ Nitrite were all taken from the
bottom effected pond. Both ponds have the same liner and are the same largesize. I only use collected rain water to top up, but it not often required. The two ponds are even stocked the same so I am really baffled as to how only one is effected, never mind as to what it is ..more dead today .. :-( GD wrote in message . .. From your earlier description of the two ponds: your system filters water from the bottom pond and dumps that back into the top pond. Effectively, the water that supplies the bottom pond is unfiltered (it includes wastes from fish in the top pond. You state that ammonia is 0. Is this true of both ponds? And, have you checked the ammonia (and other parameters) after the fish began suffering? If ammonia levels exceed 0.5 mg/L, fish may clamp fins and are much more susceptile to disease and other environmental stresses. (Gallandro) wrote: The only thing I can come up with is maybe it is Costia ? although there is no redness or gulping for air. but they do go off there food, retreat to the bottom of the pond before comming up to die. |
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#11
06-09-2003, 11:23 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
absolutly no die off at all in the top pond, only thing not effected
in the botton pond have been two goldenorfs .. liners and stock exactly the same in both ponds. The ponds have been going 3 years and this problem only started in year two and keeps commingback .... after this time if it was a chamical I would have expected it to have go into the top pond by now ? "dkat" wrote in message .net... If you are only having die off in the lower pond, then I would suspect some type of ground runoff (pesticide?) that is collecting in the bottom pond but either from the filtering or exposure to air going into the upper pond does not or has not to this point made the concentration yet to bother the upper pond.... Are the liners different in the top vs bottom pond? Have you had any die off of the upper pond at all? What other differences are there between the top and bottom pond other than the level? DK "Gallandro" wrote in message om... I have two large ponds, One pond is higher than the other (only slightly) and runs into the other pond. There is then a pump that takes the water through a filter then back to the top pond. My water have been tested for Amonia, Nitrate and Nitite, and all read zero. The strange problem is the fish is the bottom pond have started to Die. They stop eating, stay at the bottom of the pond them come to the top to dye, twitching and listing as they go. They look very healthy apart from clamped fins. There are no visible parasites like flukes or Ich. This is not the first time it has happened. last time I think I stemmed it by adding salt or it may just be coincedence(parasite / bacteria medications have no effect) it went away so I restocked and now 5 months down the line I'm here again. any ideas ? remember the top pond is never effected ? MIKE |
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#12
06-09-2003, 11:23 PM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
The pond is at the lowestpoint,but it does seem what ever it is canot
get to the top pond, via the pump and filter. this ring any bells ? salt also seems to hold it off for a few months. joe wrote in message ... Yes, good thinking. Something heavier than water. Perhaps you could get a pump to the lowest point of the pond an pump out some of the water. Don't forget to add dechlor when you add water. Joe dkat wrote: If you are only having die off in the lower pond, then I would suspect some type of ground runoff (pesticide?) that is collecting in the bottom pond but either from the filtering or exposure to air going into the upper pond does not or has not to this point made the concentration yet to bother the upper pond.... -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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#13
07-09-2003, 12:33 AM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
Is the pump that moves water from the lower pond to the upper pond at the
lowest point in the lower pond? In other words, is it possible there is stagnant water? Joe Gallandro wrote: The pond is at the lowestpoint,but it does seem what ever it is canot get to the top pond, via the pump and filter. this ring any bells ? salt also seems to hold it off for a few months. joe wrote in message ... Yes, good thinking. Something heavier than water. Perhaps you could get a pump to the lowest point of the pond an pump out some of the water. Don't forget to add dechlor when you add water. Joe dkat wrote: If you are only having die off in the lower pond, then I would suspect some type of ground runoff (pesticide?) that is collecting in the bottom pond but either from the filtering or exposure to air going into the upper pond does not or has not to this point made the concentration yet to bother the upper pond.... -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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#14
07-09-2003, 02:42 AM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
Based on what you have described, I first thought it might be a difference
in oxygen content, since the elevation difference between the two ponds is small, then there would not be much of a waterfall to oxygenate the bottom pond, like you might have from the filter to the top pond. The symptoms just didn't fit. Since the waterfall from the top pond to the bottom pond acts as a skimmer for the top pond, then a large amount of debris will accumulate in the bottom pond compared to the top pond. I had this situation after I put in my current small pond, which was connected to two preform ponds. The accumulated debris will undergo anaerobic digestion, creating hydrogen sulfide gas which would cause symptoms similar to what you describe. The hydrogen sulfide would be blown off by the water fall from the main filter and may not be toxic enough in the top pond, but lethal in the bottom pond. If so, use PP to neutralize the H2S and clean the bottom of the lower pond. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Gallandro" wrote in message om... I have two large ponds, One pond is higher than the other (only slightly) and runs into the other pond. There is then a pump that takes the water through a filter then back to the top pond. My water have been tested for Amonia, Nitrate and Nitite, and all read zero. The strange problem is the fish is the bottom pond have started to Die. They stop eating, stay at the bottom of the pond them come to the top to dye, twitching and listing as they go. They look very healthy apart from clamped fins. There are no visible parasites like flukes or Ich. This is not the first time it has happened. last time I think I stemmed it by adding salt or it may just be coincedence(parasite / bacteria medications have no effect) it went away so I restocked and now 5 months down the line I'm here again. any ideas ? remember the top pond is never effected ? MIKE |
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#15
08-09-2003, 03:04 AM
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Please Help Pond Fish Dieing
Ditto. Where in the pond system is the sample being taken?
And I see I need to add one more question to my sick fish form. What is your KH? I think when you test for that, being that you're using rainwater that has no buffer, you will find your problem. Another way to check buffer (or lack there of) is test the pH at dawn & dust, if your pH fluctuates more than 0.4 you do not have enough buffer. To add buffer use common baking soda, but check it with a KH tester first, and make sure there is NO ammonia in the system. How old are your test kits, are they reading the same as the shop? I have a similar pond set up only smaller, one pond feeding into another, my water chemistry was off just a tad this spring, and it was the lower fish who got sick. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:24:45 GMT, GD wrote: From your earlier description of the two ponds: your system filters water from the bottom pond and dumps that back into the top pond. Effectively, the water that supplies the bottom pond is unfiltered (it includes wastes from fish in the top pond. You state that ammonia is 0. Is this true of both ponds? And, have you checked the ammonia (and other parameters) after the fish began suffering? If ammonia levels exceed 0.5 mg/L, fish may clamp fins and are much more susceptile to disease and other environmental stresses. (Gallandro) wrote: The only thing I can come up with is maybe it is Costia ? although there is no redness or gulping for air. but they do go off there food, retreat to the bottom of the pond before comming up to die. |
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