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Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.
If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since the rains. The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but that breaks when the level gets low enough. Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew? TIA Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
I don't know
Mike Patterson wrote: I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since the rains. The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but that breaks when the level gets low enough. Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew? TIA Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
yup!! you hit the nail on the head. Ingrid
Mike Patterson wrote: The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but that breaks when the level gets low enough. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Mike Patterson wrote in message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since the rains. The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but that breaks when the level gets low enough. Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew? TIA Mike Most likely it is wicking around a fold in the liner or a hole high up on the liner[siphoning]. If you used EPDM rubber it is unlikely. If you used polyproplene it is very likely because my old liner after 4 years was full of holes where the sun hit.Happy water gardening. Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Mike Patterson wrote in message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less water than before. |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Creative! Mike, is that Offbreed right?
Jim "Offbreed" wrote in message ... Mike Patterson wrote in message . .. I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less water than before. |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
It is very possible that water is flowing under the liner, lifting the liner
for a period of time and then percolating out, allowing the liner to settle back down, making the water level go down. There have been a number of people that have had problems with the liner floating up out of the hole, causing a large bubble under the liner. Your soil sounds like it is more permeable than theirs. Try raising the ground level around the high side of the pond to divert the water away from the pond. That might keep the water level from rising and then falling back down. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Michael Shaffer" wrote in message ... I don't know Mike Patterson wrote: I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since the rains. The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but that breaks when the level gets low enough. Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew? TIA Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Don't think so, since the liner wraps up & over the edges of the pond
by about 12 inches and is held by large rocks. Thanks Mike On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 05:47:07 -0600, "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote: Creative! Mike, is that Offbreed right? Jim "Offbreed" wrote in message m... Mike Patterson wrote in message . .. I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less water than before. Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:02:11 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote: It is very possible that water is flowing under the liner, lifting the liner for a period of time and then percolating out, allowing the liner to settle back down, making the water level go down. There have been a number of people that have had problems with the liner floating up out of the hole, causing a large bubble under the liner. Your soil sounds like it is more permeable than theirs. Try raising the ground level around the high side of the pond to divert the water away from the pond. That might keep the water level from rising and then falling back down. Ah-ha, there's something I hadn't thought of, and might very well be the answer given the way the ground around the pond is configured. I've now dug a drainage ditch about 30' uphill from the pond to prevent runoff getting in and silting up the pond (which also happened after the big rain). Changing the ground level immediately uphill from the pond would be a real pain as there is a stone patio there, do you think I could just put a layer of rounded pea gravel on the bottom to prevent the bubble from floating the liner up? Thanks! Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Mike,
I'm sorry I don't yet have any advice to help you, but thought I'd just let you know that I feel your pain. I have the same situation. The liner of my pond wraps up and over a layer of rocks that are anchoring it - sounds like yours. Mine's brand new and we just finished it before the winter rains started here in the Pacific Northwest. And as soon as the rain DID start, the liner bubbled waaaaay up and I was out there every night in the rain with a little pump trying to fish a garden hose down under the liner and pump out the water from underneath. That was no fun so for now, we've put 3 huge rocks at the bottom and 8, 2x16 patio bricks around the 1foot deep shelf to hold the liner down. That seems to be working fairly well, although the liner still puffs a little on the vertical slant from the 1foot shelf down to the bottom. We also edged the high edge of the pond with that plastic garden edging stuff that's about 4 inches wide in an effort to get the runoff from the upper part of the yard to go around the pond rather than under it. But I'm afraid of taking the bricks out to see if that made a difference. I don't like pumping out the water from underneath the liner and I'm afraid that the shelf is in danger of being ruined when the water collects under there and swishes dirt around. When summer returns my husband and I think we're in for more digging to make some kind of drainage trench near or around the dang thing. Anyway, it sounds like yours drains a lot quicker than ours so maybe you'll have an easier time dealing with it. Good luck to you and please post if you find a good solution! Lydia "Mike Patterson" wrote in message ... On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed) wrote: Mike Patterson wrote in message . .. I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less water than before. Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones all 'way around. Thanks Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Mike,
Could you put a stone curb along the edge of the patio to raise the edge and divert the runoff of the patio away from the pond? You could put rock in the pond, but I am one of the no rocks in my pond, now or ever. Rocks can cause real problems for cleaning a pond and give anaerobic bacteria good places to work on the debris that builds up between the rocks, giving off hydrogen sulfide which is very toxic to the fish. Flat slates laid on the bottom would provide the weight, but not the number of places for the mulm. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Mike Patterson" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:02:11 GMT, "RichToyBox" wrote: It is very possible that water is flowing under the liner, lifting the liner for a period of time and then percolating out, allowing the liner to settle back down, making the water level go down. There have been a number of people that have had problems with the liner floating up out of the hole, causing a large bubble under the liner. Your soil sounds like it is more permeable than theirs. Try raising the ground level around the high side of the pond to divert the water away from the pond. That might keep the water level from rising and then falling back down. Ah-ha, there's something I hadn't thought of, and might very well be the answer given the way the ground around the pond is configured. I've now dug a drainage ditch about 30' uphill from the pond to prevent runoff getting in and silting up the pond (which also happened after the big rain). Changing the ground level immediately uphill from the pond would be a real pain as there is a stone patio there, do you think I could just put a layer of rounded pea gravel on the bottom to prevent the bubble from floating the liner up? Thanks! Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:30:00 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote: Mike, Could you put a stone curb along the edge of the patio to raise the edge and divert the runoff of the patio away from the pond? You could put rock in the pond, but I am one of the no rocks in my pond, now or ever. Rocks can cause real problems for cleaning a pond and give anaerobic bacteria good places to work on the debris that builds up between the rocks, giving off hydrogen sulfide which is very toxic to the fish. Flat slates laid on the bottom would provide the weight, but not the number of places for the mulm. I think I'll try moving a few of the patio stones, just enough to dig a small drainage trench and fill it with pea gravel. Hopefully that, combined with the new drainage ditch farther up the hill will be enough to keep most of the water runoff out. Probably place a few large rounded stones on the bottom as well. Thanks for the ideas & help from everyone! Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
Thanks! Appreciate the thoughts.
I plan to place a few large rounded stones in the bottom and dig a shallow trench next to the pond. Hopefully the double-whammy approach will do the trick. Won't know if it worked until the next flood! Mike On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:21:23 -0800, "Lydia" wrote: Mike, I'm sorry I don't yet have any advice to help you, but thought I'd just let you know that I feel your pain. I have the same situation. The liner of my pond wraps up and over a layer of rocks that are anchoring it - sounds like yours. Mine's brand new and we just finished it before the winter rains started here in the Pacific Northwest. And as soon as the rain DID start, the liner bubbled waaaaay up and I was out there every night in the rain with a little pump trying to fish a garden hose down under the liner and pump out the water from underneath. That was no fun so for now, we've put 3 huge rocks at the bottom and 8, 2x16 patio bricks around the 1foot deep shelf to hold the liner down. That seems to be working fairly well, although the liner still puffs a little on the vertical slant from the 1foot shelf down to the bottom. We also edged the high edge of the pond with that plastic garden edging stuff that's about 4 inches wide in an effort to get the runoff from the upper part of the yard to go around the pond rather than under it. But I'm afraid of taking the bricks out to see if that made a difference. I don't like pumping out the water from underneath the liner and I'm afraid that the shelf is in danger of being ruined when the water collects under there and swishes dirt around. When summer returns my husband and I think we're in for more digging to make some kind of drainage trench near or around the dang thing. Anyway, it sounds like yours drains a lot quicker than ours so maybe you'll have an easier time dealing with it. Good luck to you and please post if you find a good solution! Lydia "Mike Patterson" wrote in message ... On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed) wrote: Mike Patterson wrote in message . .. I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less water than before. Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones all 'way around. Thanks Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
Pond level DROPS after heavy rain?
I realize I'm very late to this conversation... but, early on my liner
bubbled up - there was a huge bubble in the middle and I could not see anything except muddy water. I went out in the middle of a horrible Missouri thunderstorm and dug a trench on the side of the pond that was caving in. I dug down about 8 inches ... put in a 4 inch drainage pipe; covered the trench with 2 inch rock and then Tons (!) slight exaggeration - of large pine bark mulch. This held Thank Goodness. Once the storms abated, I built up the sides of the pond about six inches and added the pine bark mulch. Nine years later - pond is just fine. No more bubbling of the liner since that first spring. The first web site is quite old but it shows my pond and the awfully muddy water. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 "Mike Patterson" wrote in message ... Thanks! Appreciate the thoughts. I plan to place a few large rounded stones in the bottom and dig a shallow trench next to the pond. Hopefully the double-whammy approach will do the trick. Won't know if it worked until the next flood! Mike On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:21:23 -0800, "Lydia" wrote: Mike, I'm sorry I don't yet have any advice to help you, but thought I'd just let you know that I feel your pain. I have the same situation. The liner of my pond wraps up and over a layer of rocks that are anchoring it - sounds like yours. Mine's brand new and we just finished it before the winter rains started here in the Pacific Northwest. And as soon as the rain DID start, the liner bubbled waaaaay up and I was out there every night in the rain with a little pump trying to fish a garden hose down under the liner and pump out the water from underneath. That was no fun so for now, we've put 3 huge rocks at the bottom and 8, 2x16 patio bricks around the 1foot deep shelf to hold the liner down. That seems to be working fairly well, although the liner still puffs a little on the vertical slant from the 1foot shelf down to the bottom. We also edged the high edge of the pond with that plastic garden edging stuff that's about 4 inches wide in an effort to get the runoff from the upper part of the yard to go around the pond rather than under it. But I'm afraid of taking the bricks out to see if that made a difference. I don't like pumping out the water from underneath the liner and I'm afraid that the shelf is in danger of being ruined when the water collects under there and swishes dirt around. When summer returns my husband and I think we're in for more digging to make some kind of drainage trench near or around the dang thing. Anyway, it sounds like yours drains a lot quicker than ours so maybe you'll have an easier time dealing with it. Good luck to you and please post if you find a good solution! Lydia "Mike Patterson" wrote in message ... On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed) wrote: Mike Patterson wrote in message . .. I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end. If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW. Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less water than before. Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones all 'way around. Thanks Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?", the question is "who has them now?" http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp |
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