Xref: kermit rec.ponds:135910

My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

I silicone calk it, It will expand and contract.
Although I see you have no liner. Will the chemicals hurt the fish? You
could use mortar mix but the lime will hurt the fish.

Seal it and take a chance on a leak.



"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Why, that's not so bad! It looks like you'd need less than ONE bag to fix
it. For my concrete pond I use Quikrete Vinyl Concrete Patcher, available
at Home Depot and probably many others. It's a fiber-reinforced cement that
can be mixed to go on like spreading butter, all you need is a bag of that
and a small trowel, just add water!

For the organic growth: I'd buy some Roundup or other hebicide and spray on
it. Let it work until the growth dies and turns brown, then pull it out
after a few days,wash it down to get rid of the chemical residue, let it
mostly dry and start with the concrete.

It's easy to do, don't be overwhelmed. I used it as the final layer to seal
up my concrete pond, 3+ years ago - no leaks, no lost fish. I recommend
after it's dried and mostly cured, you just fill it with water, let it stand
for several days, empty, refill, add plants and fish. No toxic chemicals
will be left in any significant amounts to leach into the water. I've got
one koi (a Tancho, sold to me as a feeder!) and way too many goldfish,
they've all been fine and reproducing like crazy.

You can also then paint over it with a concrete sealant, Home Depot and
others have that also in both water-based and oil-based, in different
colors. I've used both, and again, after drying and filling with water then
emptying and re-filling, with absolutely no harm to fish or plants.

I'd guess you've got less than a day's work, it'll just have to be spread
out some to let the concrete cure a bit and the sealant dry. And silicone
as Rich suggested is also good for cracks where you don't want to put
cement, or can't reach easily. But the cement is a permanent repair and if
done properly won't have to be done again - the fiber reinforced patching
cement holds up really well to freeze-thaw cycles (naturally you want to
make sure you don't leave puddles and crevices where water can get in and
expand when it freezes). For any really big holes, I'd also put in a piece
of hardware cloth (really a large-grid metal screen, you can get it in
various grid sizes) which further helps to reinforce and stabilize the
cement.

Happy Ponding,
Tim

"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Why, that's not so bad! It looks like you'd need less than ONE bag to fix
it. For my concrete pond I use Quikrete Vinyl Concrete Patcher, available
at Home Depot and probably many others. It's a fiber-reinforced cement that
can be mixed to go on like spreading butter, all you need is a bag of that
and a small trowel, just add water!

For the organic growth: I'd buy some Roundup or other hebicide and spray on
it. Let it work until the growth dies and turns brown, then pull it out
after a few days,wash it down to get rid of the chemical residue, let it
mostly dry and start with the concrete.

It's easy to do, don't be overwhelmed. I used it as the final layer to seal
up my concrete pond, 3+ years ago - no leaks, no lost fish. I recommend
after it's dried and mostly cured, you just fill it with water, let it stand
for several days, empty, refill, add plants and fish. No toxic chemicals
will be left in any significant amounts to leach into the water. I've got
one koi (a Tancho, sold to me as a feeder!) and way too many goldfish,
they've all been fine and reproducing like crazy.

You can also then paint over it with a concrete sealant, Home Depot and
others have that also in both water-based and oil-based, in different
colors. I've used both, and again, after drying and filling with water then
emptying and re-filling, with absolutely no harm to fish or plants.

I'd guess you've got less than a day's work, it'll just have to be spread
out some to let the concrete cure a bit and the sealant dry. And silicone
as Rich suggested is also good for cracks where you don't want to put
cement, or can't reach easily. But the cement is a permanent repair and if
done properly won't have to be done again - the fiber reinforced patching
cement holds up really well to freeze-thaw cycles (naturally you want to
make sure you don't leave puddles and crevices where water can get in and
expand when it freezes). For any really big holes, I'd also put in a piece
of hardware cloth (really a large-grid metal screen, you can get it in
various grid sizes) which further helps to reinforce and stabilize the
cement.

Happy Ponding,
Tim

"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Why, that's not so bad! It looks like you'd need less than ONE bag to fix
it. For my concrete pond I use Quikrete Vinyl Concrete Patcher, available
at Home Depot and probably many others. It's a fiber-reinforced cement that
can be mixed to go on like spreading butter, all you need is a bag of that
and a small trowel, just add water!

For the organic growth: I'd buy some Roundup or other hebicide and spray on
it. Let it work until the growth dies and turns brown, then pull it out
after a few days,wash it down to get rid of the chemical residue, let it
mostly dry and start with the concrete.

It's easy to do, don't be overwhelmed. I used it as the final layer to seal
up my concrete pond, 3+ years ago - no leaks, no lost fish. I recommend
after it's dried and mostly cured, you just fill it with water, let it stand
for several days, empty, refill, add plants and fish. No toxic chemicals
will be left in any significant amounts to leach into the water. I've got
one koi (a Tancho, sold to me as a feeder!) and way too many goldfish,
they've all been fine and reproducing like crazy.

You can also then paint over it with a concrete sealant, Home Depot and
others have that also in both water-based and oil-based, in different
colors. I've used both, and again, after drying and filling with water then
emptying and re-filling, with absolutely no harm to fish or plants.

I'd guess you've got less than a day's work, it'll just have to be spread
out some to let the concrete cure a bit and the sealant dry. And silicone
as Rich suggested is also good for cracks where you don't want to put
cement, or can't reach easily. But the cement is a permanent repair and if
done properly won't have to be done again - the fiber reinforced patching
cement holds up really well to freeze-thaw cycles (naturally you want to
make sure you don't leave puddles and crevices where water can get in and
expand when it freezes). For any really big holes, I'd also put in a piece
of hardware cloth (really a large-grid metal screen, you can get it in
various grid sizes) which further helps to reinforce and stabilize the
cement.

Happy Ponding,
Tim

"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Lab rat,

I'll leave suggestions for fixing the cracks in a concrete pond to the
experts, but as a gardener I'll address this issue:

You mention "a tree that has been eradicated about 8 months ago" -- I'm
not sure the tree was really killed off, as its root system seems to have a
mind of its own. Did you just cut down the tree? Depending on the species
of the tree, that might mean that the root system no longer has to support a
tree & leaves, but is free to spend its energy on expansion -- in this
case, into your pool (especially if concrete is sufficiently porous that
roots sense it as a source of water).

You might think about killing off the offending root system before -- or
at least concurrent with -- fixing the cracks in the pond. My feeling is
that the root system may continue to cause you problems otherwise.

BTW, that's a beautiful dog you have there!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

Sani-Tred
http://www.sanitred.com/

Xref: kermit rec.ponds:135950

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:51:54 GMT, "tim chandler"
puked

Why, that's not so bad! It looks like you'd need less than ONE bag to fix
it. For my concrete pond I use Quikrete Vinyl Concrete Patcher, available
at Home Depot and probably many others. It's a fiber-reinforced cement that
can be mixed to go on like spreading butter, all you need is a bag of that
and a small trowel, just add water!

I'll check that out. I went to HD yesterday, and they plopped no
fewer than three products in my cart, all that stated that they
weren't to be used under water. Quikrete wasn't one of them. One
product was a rubber 'swimming pool paint' that seemed a little
caustic.

For the organic growth: I'd buy some Roundup or other hebicide and spray on
it. Let it work until the growth dies and turns brown, then pull it out
after a few days,wash it down to get rid of the chemical residue, let it
mostly dry and start with the concrete.

The roots are all dry and crusty. Problem is that there are a lot of
them. The one pic may be misleading, but a lot of those whiskers are
really small. I sliced out most that I could find, but the harder you
look the more you see.

It's easy to do, don't be overwhelmed. I used it as the final layer to seal
up my concrete pond, 3+ years ago - no leaks, no lost fish. I recommend
after it's dried and mostly cured, you just fill it with water, let it stand
for several days, empty, refill, add plants and fish. No toxic chemicals
will be left in any significant amounts to leach into the water. I've got
one koi (a Tancho, sold to me as a feeder!) and way too many goldfish,
they've all been fine and reproducing like crazy.

The Quikrete? Is it plastic enough to bridge the smaller cracks?

You can also then paint over it with a concrete sealant, Home Depot and
others have that also in both water-based and oil-based, in different
colors. I've used both, and again, after drying and filling with water then
emptying and re-filling, with absolutely no harm to fish or plants.

I'd guess you've got less than a day's work, it'll just have to be spread
out some to let the concrete cure a bit and the sealant dry. And silicone
as Rich suggested is also good for cracks where you don't want to put
cement, or can't reach easily. But the cement is a permanent repair and if
done properly won't have to be done again - the fiber reinforced patching
cement holds up really well to freeze-thaw cycles (naturally you want to
make sure you don't leave puddles and crevices where water can get in and
expand when it freezes). For any really big holes, I'd also put in a piece
of hardware cloth (really a large-grid metal screen, you can get it in
various grid sizes) which further helps to reinforce and stabilize the
cement.

Thanks for your input. I'm going to check out your suggestions and
hopefully have my pond back together for the holidays. I live in S.
Florida, so I don't have all those 'northerner problems'...
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:36:06 GMT, "Anne Lurie"
puked

Lab rat,

I'll leave suggestions for fixing the cracks in a concrete pond to the
experts, but as a gardener I'll address this issue:

You mention "a tree that has been eradicated about 8 months ago" -- I'm
not sure the tree was really killed off, as its root system seems to have a
mind of its own. Did you just cut down the tree? Depending on the species
of the tree, that might mean that the root system no longer has to support a
tree & leaves, but is free to spend its energy on expansion -- in this
case, into your pool (especially if concrete is sufficiently porous that
roots sense it as a source of water).

You might think about killing off the offending root system before -- or
at least concurrent with -- fixing the cracks in the pond. My feeling is
that the root system may continue to cause you problems otherwise.

Actually, I waited as long as I have to ensure that the tree was
history. They were ficus trees (yeah, I know, I didn't build the pond
or plant the trees).

I cut them down, they painted them with some systemic type death
juice. I looked at the bottle, but the label had faded, because I
wanted to suggest it. I had three trees, I dosed one with muriatic
acid and painted the other two with this stuff that HAS to be even
more toxic. In the acid stump, I deep drilled with a 1" auger bit and
swamped it with acid, repeatedly. The others were painted on the
fresh cut per the instructions.

The painted stumps crumbled after a couple of months, while the acid
stump was still showing signs of life.

Bottom line, all three are long since dead. All through our wet
Florida summer they showed no sign of new growth, and the roots pretty
much stopped in their tracks.

If I had anything to say about it, ficus trees would be against the
law. I have grown to hate everything about them.

BTW, that's a beautiful dog you have there!

Thanks. Her name's Farrah and she's one of the smartest ones in the
family!
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

| The Quikrete? Is it plastic enough to bridge the smaller cracks?

The Quikrete Vinyl Concrete Patcher excels at that. Accept no substitutes!
When mixed thoroughly and with just the right amount of water, it really
does go on like butter. I'd get a small pint or quart plastic bowl - any
empty food container will do - and mix it up in that, a bit at a time. For
the smaller cracks you can just spread it along the crack, feathering out
the edges to have a nice, smooth repair. You really won't even need any
sealer on top of it. What I do when I want a nice, smooth waterproof
surface with it, is to apply it and then when it starts to harden up after
an hour or two (the smaller the application the sooner it will start to
harden), run the smooth trowel over it with some pressure, to sort of
burnish the surface and make it really smooth.

Make sure you wear gloves, and resist the temptation to apply it with your
fingers - the concrete is a bit alkaline and caustic, but also because of
the fiberglass in it, you can get little fiber splinters in your fingers! (I
speak from experience here)

Tim

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:14:04 GMT, "lab~rat :-)" wrote:

Thanks for your input. I'm going to check out your suggestions and
hopefully have my pond back together for the holidays. I live in S.
Florida, so I don't have all those 'northerner problems'...

I was kind of wondering where you are, since you seem to have plants
outside that I call houseplants up here in the north. Very cool, btw. I
hope you share more pictures when you get it back up and running.
~ jan

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

You need to pressure wash it at 3500 PSI and then use thoroseal (available
at Home Depot).

You need to pressure wash with a high PSI to make a rough surface for the
new cement to bond to. Since you are bonding new cement to old cement there
will be no chemical bond, only physical.

Cement/concrete is porous to 4-5 inches. Having a skim coat of mason mix,
etc won't help you. Thoroseal is an admix of cement and acrylic. This makes
it waterproof at 1/4".

Sam



"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

I believe that you will need more than just a concrete pach mix to fill the
voids between the concrete and
what appears to be foam. You will need mesh of some sort to stop the mix
from dropping into the holes.
From the looks of things, you're in S.FL. Look at Urdl's in Delray. They
have fake rocks that could possibly be placed
where some of yours should be removed.
"lab~rat :-)" wrote in message
...
My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA
--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:05:50 GMT, "lab~rat :-)"
puked:

My concrete pond has developed cracks from a tree that has been
eradicated about 8 months ago. I want to seal the cracks, but the
whole task seems overwhelming.

Check out the mess:

http://blueaxe.home.mindspring.com/pond.html

In the second photo you can see the biggest crack that has been
cleaned and cleared of root material (by my dog's head). The water
level sinks to this crack.

The third shot is a closeup of the crack to well above the waterline
(where the big hole is)

4th is a closeup shot of some small cracks that have developed above
the huge crack. you can see the small roots growing through like
thick hairs.

Fifth through last is the attached waterfall where stucco has spalled
off of the forming foam.

First, is there a sealing material that could fix the major crack?

How should I handle the small cracks with organic growth?

I assume the whole waterfall should be fixed prior to trying to
re-establish the pond. How would you recommend fixing the spalling
stucco, and what is it sealed with once it is fixed?

TIA

Quick update:

I sealed the holes with the vinyl patch and finally filled it up
yesterday. This morning it didn't drop at all! Success! Thank you
all for your help.

--
lab~rat :-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?