hey all,

been reading through this group off and on since i started thinkin'
about ponding in '96. great group and with the old dejanews and now
google a fine source of info.

i will finally start digging the hole for my small goldfish/water
garden tomorrow. here's the plan and i have a few immediate questions
on the finer things of the install:

i live in zone 9 of the good ole us of a. the pond will be formal in
nature 8x4x2 deep with two shelves facing away from the viewing area
(approx. 450 gals.) and will be situated under a patio cover recieving
3 hrs. of direct sun and 6 hrs. of indiect. will be using 45 mil.
liner, a supreme 700 mag drive pump, and a bio force 1000 filter. pump
will flow about 90% to the filter and discharge through a decorative
urn laid on its side side into the pond. i'll split 10% to a spitting
statue. oh, and all elec. will be plugged into a gfi.

first round of ?s:

1 what type (if any) of prefilter do these pumps have. if the pump
needs to be lifted for cleaning, how do you guys cope with the extra
wiring/tubing left in the pond in order to raise the pump?

2 how to run the tubing/ wiring for pump out of pond? electrical
should probably have to be put in conduit to gfi. can i put the tubing
and elec. through a piece if, say 2" pvc on the edge of the liner and
put my coping stones between this pvc?

this'll get me going. there will be lots of other ?s to follow.

glad to be in on these discussions and hope to pass on some knowledge
in the future.

My first ponds were preformed and my pumps were attached to the piping with
a pipe union. The pipe union allows you to disconnect the pump from the
piping without disturbing the piping that is buried under ground, mulch or
rock. I also put my pump cords, 10 - 20 feet depending on pump, through a
length of pvc pipe, which I buried so that no one would trip on the loose
cords and they would not be a distraction. Today they run on top of the
ground to the smaller pond.

As for prefilters, most of them are way undersized, made of foam, and clog
quickly. Get some of the mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside, run
the pipe through the top basket, and tie the top basket to the bottom
basket. The baskets are not as fine as the foam, but they are fine enough
to prevent the pump from clogging. The baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"rasta" wrote in message
...
hey all,

been reading through this group off and on since i started thinkin'
about ponding in '96. great group and with the old dejanews and now
google a fine source of info.

i will finally start digging the hole for my small goldfish/water
garden tomorrow. here's the plan and i have a few immediate questions
on the finer things of the install:

i live in zone 9 of the good ole us of a. the pond will be formal in
nature 8x4x2 deep with two shelves facing away from the viewing area
(approx. 450 gals.) and will be situated under a patio cover recieving
3 hrs. of direct sun and 6 hrs. of indiect. will be using 45 mil.
liner, a supreme 700 mag drive pump, and a bio force 1000 filter. pump
will flow about 90% to the filter and discharge through a decorative
urn laid on its side side into the pond. i'll split 10% to a spitting
statue. oh, and all elec. will be plugged into a gfi.

first round of ?s:

1 what type (if any) of prefilter do these pumps have. if the pump
needs to be lifted for cleaning, how do you guys cope with the extra
wiring/tubing left in the pond in order to raise the pump?

2 how to run the tubing/ wiring for pump out of pond? electrical
should probably have to be put in conduit to gfi. can i put the tubing
and elec. through a piece if, say 2" pvc on the edge of the liner and
put my coping stones between this pvc?

this'll get me going. there will be lots of other ?s to follow.

glad to be in on these discussions and hope to pass on some knowledge
in the future.

... mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside... tie the top basket to
the bottom
basket... baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.

I've tried this, by the way, and it works quite well.
I have stretched a cut-off section from an old pair of [large... which
happen to be too easy to find in my house... work best] panty-hose leg
[twist-tied at the ends] around the connected baskets, when I've wanted
finer pre-pump straining.

Mila




"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:G4HNb.77849$na.43117@attbi_s04...
My first ponds were preformed and my pumps were attached to the piping
with
a pipe union. The pipe union allows you to disconnect the pump from the
piping without disturbing the piping that is buried under ground, mulch or
rock. I also put my pump cords, 10 - 20 feet depending on pump, through a
length of pvc pipe, which I buried so that no one would trip on the loose
cords and they would not be a distraction. Today they run on top of the
ground to the smaller pond.

As for prefilters, most of them are way undersized, made of foam, and clog
quickly. Get some of the mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside,
run
the pipe through the top basket, and tie the top basket to the bottom
basket. The baskets are not as fine as the foam, but they are fine enough
to prevent the pump from clogging. The baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"rasta" wrote in message
...
hey all,

been reading through this group off and on since i started thinkin'
about ponding in '96. great group and with the old dejanews and now
google a fine source of info.

i will finally start digging the hole for my small goldfish/water
garden tomorrow. here's the plan and i have a few immediate questions
on the finer things of the install:

i live in zone 9 of the good ole us of a. the pond will be formal in
nature 8x4x2 deep with two shelves facing away from the viewing area
(approx. 450 gals.) and will be situated under a patio cover recieving
3 hrs. of direct sun and 6 hrs. of indiect. will be using 45 mil.
liner, a supreme 700 mag drive pump, and a bio force 1000 filter. pump
will flow about 90% to the filter and discharge through a decorative
urn laid on its side side into the pond. i'll split 10% to a spitting
statue. oh, and all elec. will be plugged into a gfi.

first round of ?s:

1 what type (if any) of prefilter do these pumps have. if the pump
needs to be lifted for cleaning, how do you guys cope with the extra
wiring/tubing left in the pond in order to raise the pump?

2 how to run the tubing/ wiring for pump out of pond? electrical
should probably have to be put in conduit to gfi. can i put the tubing
and elec. through a piece if, say 2" pvc on the edge of the liner and
put my coping stones between this pvc?

this'll get me going. there will be lots of other ?s to follow.

glad to be in on these discussions and hope to pass on some knowledge
in the future.

I found out the hard way if you don't isolate the pump inside something like
Rich and Mila are referring to, that you will loose small fish. My first
batch of feeder fish ended up getting chopped when they were sucked through
the pump.

My pump now sits in a large plastic flower pot. Stretched over the top is a
piece of plastic mesh (actually it is a cut up piece of mesh sleeve that
normally goes over a scuba tank). This is flexible so can be bent over the
edges. Not pretty but it works. I like the mesh basket idea better. Will
try that in the spring.

Heather


"BTC/TAK on ACK" wrote in message
...
... mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside... tie the top basket
to
the bottom
basket... baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.

I've tried this, by the way, and it works quite well.
I have stretched a cut-off section from an old pair of [large... which
happen to be too easy to find in my house... work best] panty-hose leg
[twist-tied at the ends] around the connected baskets, when I've wanted
finer pre-pump straining.

Mila




"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:G4HNb.77849$na.43117@attbi_s04...
My first ponds were preformed and my pumps were attached to the piping
with
a pipe union. The pipe union allows you to disconnect the pump from the
piping without disturbing the piping that is buried under ground, mulch
or
rock. I also put my pump cords, 10 - 20 feet depending on pump, through
a
length of pvc pipe, which I buried so that no one would trip on the
loose
cords and they would not be a distraction. Today they run on top of the
ground to the smaller pond.

As for prefilters, most of them are way undersized, made of foam, and
clog
quickly. Get some of the mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside,
run
the pipe through the top basket, and tie the top basket to the bottom
basket. The baskets are not as fine as the foam, but they are fine
enough
to prevent the pump from clogging. The baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"rasta" wrote in message
...
hey all,

been reading through this group off and on since i started thinkin'
about ponding in '96. great group and with the old dejanews and now
google a fine source of info.

i will finally start digging the hole for my small goldfish/water
garden tomorrow. here's the plan and i have a few immediate questions
on the finer things of the install:

i live in zone 9 of the good ole us of a. the pond will be formal in
nature 8x4x2 deep with two shelves facing away from the viewing area
(approx. 450 gals.) and will be situated under a patio cover recieving
3 hrs. of direct sun and 6 hrs. of indiect. will be using 45 mil.
liner, a supreme 700 mag drive pump, and a bio force 1000 filter. pump
will flow about 90% to the filter and discharge through a decorative
urn laid on its side side into the pond. i'll split 10% to a spitting
statue. oh, and all elec. will be plugged into a gfi.

first round of ?s:

1 what type (if any) of prefilter do these pumps have. if the pump
needs to be lifted for cleaning, how do you guys cope with the extra
wiring/tubing left in the pond in order to raise the pump?

2 how to run the tubing/ wiring for pump out of pond? electrical
should probably have to be put in conduit to gfi. can i put the tubing
and elec. through a piece if, say 2" pvc on the edge of the liner and
put my coping stones between this pvc?

this'll get me going. there will be lots of other ?s to follow.

glad to be in on these discussions and hope to pass on some knowledge
in the future.

My pump now sits in a large plastic flower pot.

I've done that one too... and for the same reasons [poor little fish!!!].
It's effective, but the plant baskets are definitely an esthetic
improvement.

Mila

"Heather" wrote in message
. ..
I found out the hard way if you don't isolate the pump inside something
like
Rich and Mila are referring to, that you will loose small fish. My first
batch of feeder fish ended up getting chopped when they were sucked
through
the pump.

My pump now sits in a large plastic flower pot. Stretched over the top is
a
piece of plastic mesh (actually it is a cut up piece of mesh sleeve that
normally goes over a scuba tank). This is flexible so can be bent over
the
edges. Not pretty but it works. I like the mesh basket idea better.
Will
try that in the spring.

Heather


"BTC/TAK on ACK" wrote in message
...
... mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside... tie the top basket
to
the bottom
basket... baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.

I've tried this, by the way, and it works quite well.
I have stretched a cut-off section from an old pair of [large... which
happen to be too easy to find in my house... work best] panty-hose leg
[twist-tied at the ends] around the connected baskets, when I've wanted
finer pre-pump straining.

Mila




"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:G4HNb.77849$na.43117@attbi_s04...
My first ponds were preformed and my pumps were attached to the piping
with
a pipe union. The pipe union allows you to disconnect the pump from
the
piping without disturbing the piping that is buried under ground,
mulch
or
rock. I also put my pump cords, 10 - 20 feet depending on pump,
through
a
length of pvc pipe, which I buried so that no one would trip on the
loose
cords and they would not be a distraction. Today they run on top of
the
ground to the smaller pond.

As for prefilters, most of them are way undersized, made of foam, and
clog
quickly. Get some of the mesh type plant baskets, put the pump
inside,
run
the pipe through the top basket, and tie the top basket to the bottom
basket. The baskets are not as fine as the foam, but they are fine
enough
to prevent the pump from clogging. The baskets have a larger surface
to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"rasta" wrote in message
...
hey all,

been reading through this group off and on since i started thinkin'
about ponding in '96. great group and with the old dejanews and now
google a fine source of info.

i will finally start digging the hole for my small goldfish/water
garden tomorrow. here's the plan and i have a few immediate
questions
on the finer things of the install:

i live in zone 9 of the good ole us of a. the pond will be formal in
nature 8x4x2 deep with two shelves facing away from the viewing area
(approx. 450 gals.) and will be situated under a patio cover
recieving
3 hrs. of direct sun and 6 hrs. of indiect. will be using 45 mil.
liner, a supreme 700 mag drive pump, and a bio force 1000 filter.
pump
will flow about 90% to the filter and discharge through a decorative
urn laid on its side side into the pond. i'll split 10% to a
spitting
statue. oh, and all elec. will be plugged into a gfi.

first round of ?s:

1 what type (if any) of prefilter do these pumps have. if the pump
needs to be lifted for cleaning, how do you guys cope with the extra
wiring/tubing left in the pond in order to raise the pump?

2 how to run the tubing/ wiring for pump out of pond? electrical
should probably have to be put in conduit to gfi. can i put the
tubing
and elec. through a piece if, say 2" pvc on the edge of the liner
and
put my coping stones between this pvc?

this'll get me going. there will be lots of other ?s to follow.

glad to be in on these discussions and hope to pass on some
knowledge
in the future.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:25:59 GMT, "RichToyBox" wrote:

As for prefilters, most of them are way undersized, made of foam, and clog
quickly. Get some of the mesh type plant baskets, put the pump inside, run
the pipe through the top basket, and tie the top basket to the bottom
basket. The baskets are not as fine as the foam, but they are fine enough
to prevent the pump from clogging. The baskets have a larger surface to
clog, versus the foam filter, so it takes longer.

A pictures of a pump in clam shell described above can be seen at my
website below. Click on *My Pond Photos* and go to Page 7 bottom. ~ jan

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

HI
something you may want to consider, which I did not see mentioned.


If you have your pump sucking water from the bottom of the pond, and
the outlet hose/pipe goes outside of the pond. if for some reason it
develops a leak :-( it will suck your pond dry and all your fish
will die or easily be caught by coons and other predators :-(

what I do and suggests is raise your pump off the bottom of the pond
to the 1/3 to 1/2 level then if the leak develops and you are not in
the immediate area the water level will only drop to that level.


I at one time tried putting the pump in a bucket, with the bucket
setting on the bottom of the pond. and this seemed like it would work
OK .
but if the level dropped below the top of the bucket, the pump would
empty the bucket, then it would float and the pump would fall out and
then suck the pond empty :-(


JUST my .02$







tom A.
Please check my WeB SiTe: www.kinetickites.com
or call me @ 405-722-KITE (5483)
or E-mail @

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:39:34 GMT, tom A
wrote:

HI


what I do and suggests is raise your pump off the bottom of the pond
to the 1/3 to 1/2 level then if the leak develops and you are not in
the immediate area the water level will only drop to that level.

i've done a *lot* of research and haven't seen this mentioned. it's
definitely something i'll incorporate into the design; as well as the
plant baskets as a prefilter

seems as if i have a few more weeks before i can start digging, the
weather isn't cooperating here along the gulf coast. oh, well, guess
it'll just give me more time to ponder ;-0 these things.

btw, am still seeking suggestions for concealing the hose and power
cord leading from the pond.

JUST my .02$

all you folks, keep that copper handy! thanks!

I meant to reply earlier and forgot but this brings to mind what I do and
how it keeps my pond from ever being pumped dry. I put my pump in a 5
Gallon bucket and then fill the bucket with lava rock. Ideally the bucket
should be the opposite end of the pond from where the flow of water comes in
(that is if you are pumping the water into a second pond that then runs back
into the primary pond). I can run mine all year and doesn't need cleaned
except for in the spring when I simply pull the dump the bucket out, rinse
the rocks with pond water and then reassemble. The water in the pond cannot
go below the level of the buckets side and you develop a nice bio filter as
well.
"tom A" wrote in message
...
HI
something you may want to consider, which I did not see mentioned.


If you have your pump sucking water from the bottom of the pond, and
the outlet hose/pipe goes outside of the pond. if for some reason it
develops a leak :-( it will suck your pond dry and all your fish
will die or easily be caught by coons and other predators :-(

what I do and suggests is raise your pump off the bottom of the pond
to the 1/3 to 1/2 level then if the leak develops and you are not in
the immediate area the water level will only drop to that level.


I at one time tried putting the pump in a bucket, with the bucket
setting on the bottom of the pond. and this seemed like it would work
OK .
but if the level dropped below the top of the bucket, the pump would
empty the bucket, then it would float and the pump would fall out and
then suck the pond empty :-(


JUST my .02$







tom A.
Please check my WeB SiTe: www.kinetickites.com
or call me @ 405-722-KITE (5483)
or E-mail @

i use a 5 gallon bucket also. I just put a couple large rocks in it if the
worst case would happen.

"D Kat" wrote in message
t...
I meant to reply earlier and forgot but this brings to mind what I do and
how it keeps my pond from ever being pumped dry. I put my pump in a 5
Gallon bucket and then fill the bucket with lava rock. Ideally the bucket
should be the opposite end of the pond from where the flow of water comes
in
(that is if you are pumping the water into a second pond that then runs
back
into the primary pond). I can run mine all year and doesn't need cleaned
except for in the spring when I simply pull the dump the bucket out, rinse
the rocks with pond water and then reassemble. The water in the pond
cannot
go below the level of the buckets side and you develop a nice bio filter
as
well.
"tom A" wrote in message
...
HI
something you may want to consider, which I did not see mentioned.


If you have your pump sucking water from the bottom of the pond, and
the outlet hose/pipe goes outside of the pond. if for some reason it
develops a leak :-( it will suck your pond dry and all your fish
will die or easily be caught by coons and other predators :-(

what I do and suggests is raise your pump off the bottom of the pond
to the 1/3 to 1/2 level then if the leak develops and you are not in
the immediate area the water level will only drop to that level.


I at one time tried putting the pump in a bucket, with the bucket
setting on the bottom of the pond. and this seemed like it would work
OK .
but if the level dropped below the top of the bucket, the pump would
empty the bucket, then it would float and the pump would fall out and
then suck the pond empty :-(


JUST my .02$







tom A.
Please check my WeB SiTe: www.kinetickites.com
or call me @ 405-722-KITE (5483)
or E-mail @

Adrian J. Bauer wrote:

i use a 5 gallon bucket also. I just put a couple large rocks in it if the
worst case would happen.

Why not poke a couple holes in the bucket to let the air out, and set
it upside down? Pump "walks"?

i also use it as a prefilter. i have some filter material at the top of the
bucket. Has anyone ever used the scumbag (sorry kind of off subject)?
http://scumbag-filters.com I'm thinking about getting one for my new
waterfall pump.
"Offbreed" wrote in message
...
Adrian J. Bauer wrote:

i use a 5 gallon bucket also. I just put a couple large rocks in it if
the
worst case would happen.

Why not poke a couple holes in the bucket to let the air out, and set
it upside down? Pump "walks"?

i also use it as a prefilter. i have some filter material at the top of the
bucket. Has anyone ever used the scumbag (sorry kind of off subject)?
http://scumbag-filters.com I'm thinking about getting one for my new
waterfall pump.
"Offbreed" wrote in message
...
Adrian J. Bauer wrote:

i use a 5 gallon bucket also. I just put a couple large rocks in it if
the
worst case would happen.

Why not poke a couple holes in the bucket to let the air out, and set
it upside down? Pump "walks"?