Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

"steve evans" wrote in message
...
Our pond is right at the edge of a 50 acre wetland. There is no stream
inlet or outlet. When we had the pond dug the excavator said it was
spring fed and you see two areas at the bottom that remained clear for
years. The pond filled in a couple days and the level varies very
little, even in the dry summer months. We bought the bluegills and bass
from a fish hatchery and put in no bullheads. And didn't see any for 20
years or more.


Do you live in a karst area (cave country)? You said you have marl at the
bottom. Is it solid, fractured, or does it have crevaces and/or possibly a cave
passage at the bottom? The reason why I asked is that if the opening is large
enough, or has enlarged over the last year, your fish may now be swimming
somewhere else, or else found themselves lost in an underground bedrock channel,
and couldn't find their way back. In that case, they probably starved. I know
this sounds goofy, but I am a geologist and live in Kentucky where we have lots
of caves and cave springs. It is not unusual for ponds in certain areas of the
state to suddenly loose all of the fish. I actually saw a sinkhole open up in
the bottom of a pond once, and drain the entire pond, fish and all, in about 10
minutes. That obviously didn't happen to you, but if there is a submerged
passage (the spring water has to be coming from somewhere, possibly the marsh),
it won't drain the pond, but actually feed water to it, as you've said that it
does. If there are openings in the bottom large enough for fish to enter, they
generally will.

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Now seems like a good time to post heron
hints for new ponders checking out this
thread.....

Tips for herons, egrets and other fishing birds:
- netting over the pond
- chimney flue in the bottom of the pond for fish
to hide in and feel safe
- put in an electric fido shock fence
- a motion activated sprinkler
- Migratory Bird Act forbids lethal methods,
heavy fines and jail time take away from pond time ;-)


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

I have an appenzellar cattle dog/border collie mix that chases and catches
birds, squirrels, rabbits, and mice, etc. She isn't on the side of the fence
where the pond is located, but I think her presence so close by, and the fact
that I have a viscious 26" long albino channel catfish (at least 5 lbs) in the
pond has so far prevented any attacks. It swagged a squirrel yesterday with its
tail. The squirrel almost had a heart attack. I heard a goose today somewhere,
but didn't see it. It will be interesting to see if it comes around and tries
to steal some fish, and what the catfish and the dog will do if it does. I have
my fingers crossed for now.

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

Well.. George, so your a geologist! Exactly what I have wanted
to be all my life. Your post was music to my ears ...

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"steve evans" wrote in message
...
Our pond is right at the edge of a 50 acre wetland. There is no stream
inlet or outlet. When we had the pond dug the excavator said it was
spring fed and you see two areas at the bottom that remained clear for
years. The pond filled in a couple days and the level varies very
little, even in the dry summer months. We bought the bluegills and bass
from a fish hatchery and put in no bullheads. And didn't see any for 20
years or more.


Do you live in a karst area (cave country)? You said you have marl at the
bottom. Is it solid, fractured, or does it have crevaces and/or possibly
a cave
passage at the bottom? The reason why I asked is that if the opening is
large
enough, or has enlarged over the last year, your fish may now be swimming
somewhere else, or else found themselves lost in an underground bedrock
channel,
and couldn't find their way back. In that case, they probably starved. I
know
this sounds goofy, but I am a geologist and live in Kentucky where we have
lots
of caves and cave springs. It is not unusual for ponds in certain areas
of the
state to suddenly loose all of the fish. I actually saw a sinkhole open
up in
the bottom of a pond once, and drain the entire pond, fish and all, in
about 10
minutes. That obviously didn't happen to you, but if there is a submerged
passage (the spring water has to be coming from somewhere, possibly the
marsh),
it won't drain the pond, but actually feed water to it, as you've said
that it
does. If there are openings in the bottom large enough for fish to enter,
they
generally will.

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

"Nedra" wrote in message
nk.net...
Well.. George, so your a geologist! Exactly what I have wanted
to be all my life. Your post was music to my ears ...

Well, it is certainly not for everyone. I have enjoyed it. It has allowed me
to see things and go places a lot of people don't get to experience. But the
work can be rather tedious at times. And the paperwork sucks. But then, what
paperwork doesn't?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"steve evans" wrote in message
...
Our pond is right at the edge of a 50 acre wetland. There is no stream
inlet or outlet. When we had the pond dug the excavator said it was
spring fed and you see two areas at the bottom that remained clear for
years. The pond filled in a couple days and the level varies very
little, even in the dry summer months. We bought the bluegills and bass
from a fish hatchery and put in no bullheads. And didn't see any for 20
years or more.


Do you live in a karst area (cave country)? You said you have marl at the
bottom. Is it solid, fractured, or does it have crevaces and/or possibly
a cave
passage at the bottom? The reason why I asked is that if the opening is
large
enough, or has enlarged over the last year, your fish may now be swimming
somewhere else, or else found themselves lost in an underground bedrock
channel,
and couldn't find their way back. In that case, they probably starved. I
know
this sounds goofy, but I am a geologist and live in Kentucky where we have
lots
of caves and cave springs. It is not unusual for ponds in certain areas
of the
state to suddenly loose all of the fish. I actually saw a sinkhole open
up in
the bottom of a pond once, and drain the entire pond, fish and all, in
about 10
minutes. That obviously didn't happen to you, but if there is a submerged
passage (the spring water has to be coming from somewhere, possibly the
marsh),
it won't drain the pond, but actually feed water to it, as you've said
that it
does. If there are openings in the bottom large enough for fish to enter,
they
generally will.

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

Speaking of paperwork ... whilst dreaming dreams of being
a geolgist ... I was working for Dept of Army - paperwork?? OMG :(

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"Nedra" wrote in message
nk.net...
Well.. George, so your a geologist! Exactly what I have wanted
to be all my life. Your post was music to my ears ...

Well, it is certainly not for everyone. I have enjoyed it. It has
allowed me
to see things and go places a lot of people don't get to experience. But
the
work can be rather tedious at times. And the paperwork sucks. But then,
what
paperwork doesn't?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"steve evans" wrote in message
...
Our pond is right at the edge of a 50 acre wetland. There is no
stream
inlet or outlet. When we had the pond dug the excavator said it was
spring fed and you see two areas at the bottom that remained clear
for
years. The pond filled in a couple days and the level varies very
little, even in the dry summer months. We bought the bluegills and
bass
from a fish hatchery and put in no bullheads. And didn't see any for
20
years or more.


Do you live in a karst area (cave country)? You said you have marl at
the
bottom. Is it solid, fractured, or does it have crevaces and/or
possibly
a cave
passage at the bottom? The reason why I asked is that if the opening
is
large
enough, or has enlarged over the last year, your fish may now be
swimming
somewhere else, or else found themselves lost in an underground bedrock
channel,
and couldn't find their way back. In that case, they probably starved.
I
know
this sounds goofy, but I am a geologist and live in Kentucky where we
have
lots
of caves and cave springs. It is not unusual for ponds in certain
areas
of the
state to suddenly loose all of the fish. I actually saw a sinkhole
open
up in
the bottom of a pond once, and drain the entire pond, fish and all, in
about 10
minutes. That obviously didn't happen to you, but if there is a
submerged
passage (the spring water has to be coming from somewhere, possibly the
marsh),
it won't drain the pond, but actually feed water to it, as you've said
that it
does. If there are openings in the bottom large enough for fish to
enter,
they
generally will.

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

"Nedra" wrote in message
nk.net...
Speaking of paperwork ... whilst dreaming dreams of being
a geolgist ... I was working for Dept of Army - paperwork?? OMG :(

Nedra

My wife is the environmental coordinator for the Kentucky Bureau of Military
Affairs, so I can understand about the paperwork. She complains about it all
the time.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"Nedra" wrote in message
nk.net...
Well.. George, so your a geologist! Exactly what I have wanted
to be all my life. Your post was music to my ears ...

Well, it is certainly not for everyone. I have enjoyed it. It has
allowed me
to see things and go places a lot of people don't get to experience. But
the
work can be rather tedious at times. And the paperwork sucks. But then,
what
paperwork doesn't?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"steve evans" wrote in message
...
Our pond is right at the edge of a 50 acre wetland. There is no
stream
inlet or outlet. When we had the pond dug the excavator said it was
spring fed and you see two areas at the bottom that remained clear
for
years. The pond filled in a couple days and the level varies very
little, even in the dry summer months. We bought the bluegills and
bass
from a fish hatchery and put in no bullheads. And didn't see any for
20
years or more.


Do you live in a karst area (cave country)? You said you have marl at
the
bottom. Is it solid, fractured, or does it have crevaces and/or
possibly
a cave
passage at the bottom? The reason why I asked is that if the opening
is
large
enough, or has enlarged over the last year, your fish may now be
swimming
somewhere else, or else found themselves lost in an underground bedrock
channel,
and couldn't find their way back. In that case, they probably starved.
I
know
this sounds goofy, but I am a geologist and live in Kentucky where we
have
lots
of caves and cave springs. It is not unusual for ponds in certain
areas
of the
state to suddenly loose all of the fish. I actually saw a sinkhole
open
up in
the bottom of a pond once, and drain the entire pond, fish and all, in
about 10
minutes. That obviously didn't happen to you, but if there is a
submerged
passage (the spring water has to be coming from somewhere, possibly the
marsh),
it won't drain the pond, but actually feed water to it, as you've said
that it
does. If there are openings in the bottom large enough for fish to
enter,
they
generally will.

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

Gary I use a motion activated water jet (water scare crow) but, after
some losses last year due to a racoon who obviously didn't mind getting
we, have also put netting over the pond. The local garden supplie
shops sell very thin black plasting netting (about 1/2" squares)
intended for covering fruit trees to keep birds out.

It is cheap and light and when stretched thight across the pond above
the level of the water it is all but invisble from more that 10 feet
away - so you can actually look at your pond and enjoy the sight.

So far no more losses.

Good luck

Gary wrote:

Thanks, everyone, for your comments and great suggestions. The
chicken wire is just a temporary measure(effective, but a high
ugliness factor), so I will need to give some careful thought to the
options for a more permanent solution.
BTW, I'm surprised that, today, the fish are beginning to come back up
to the top to check me out when I approach and to eat again. That's
encouraging!

Sean - over the years my fish have developed some interesting colors
and finnage. I don't have any black ones, but several mottled
white/orange ones, yellow/gold ones, some totally white, some intense,
deep orange. As far as fins go, again, lots of variety. One has very
short fins (looks like he has a crew-cut - so I call him "Butch")
while others have very long, flowing tails and fins, like "Rapunzel"
and "Lady Godiva." Some of them have tails that are considerably
longer than their bodies. The young ones are usually black but they
dont stay that color after they get big enough to defend themselves.

Gary

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

One ponder lady who lived next to a large nature pond said she saw a heron
down a ~24" carp. Took it 30 minutes to get its mouth shut over it. All I
could think of was, where's the coyotes (also in this area) when you need
them? ~ jan

On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:36:14 -0400, (steve evans) wrote:

We live in extreme Southern Michigan and had a very moderate winter.
Until this year we have never seen a bullhead in the pond. Our bluegills
were as large as 9-10 inches and our bass were 14-15 inches.
As far as overfishing, I doubt we have taken 25 fish out over 20 years.
I love to see the herons come and they can have whatever they need, I
just can't imagine they need the larger fish. As I said, we are seeing
more algae this year, so I am checking into that.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

I had an interesting coversation yesterday with my local professional
pond guy. He said that here in GA it's a huge fine if you kill a heron
without a license... but the license fee is $25.

Hmmmm...


On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:43:59 GMT, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

One ponder lady who lived next to a large nature pond said she saw a heron
down a ~24" carp. Took it 30 minutes to get its mouth shut over it. All I
could think of was, where's the coyotes (also in this area) when you need
them? ~ jan

On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:36:14 -0400, (steve evans) wrote:

We live in extreme Southern Michigan and had a very moderate winter.
Until this year we have never seen a bullhead in the pond. Our bluegills
were as large as 9-10 inches and our bass were 14-15 inches.
As far as overfishing, I doubt we have taken 25 fish out over 20 years.
I love to see the herons come and they can have whatever they need, I
just can't imagine they need the larger fish. As I said, we are seeing
more algae this year, so I am checking into that.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific..."

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

Mike wrote I had an interesting coversation yesterday with my local
professional
pond guy. He said that here in GA it's a huge fine if you kill a heron
without a license... but the license fee is $25.

It is very important to continued participation in ponding and rec.ponds to dot
all your i's and cross all your t's in this matter as the federal Migratory
Bird Act protects herons.
"A violation of the act is considered a misdemeanor offense resulting in fines
up to $500 and six months in jail."
and
"The Great Blue Heron has earned the enmity of man in some areas where
goldfish, turtles, frogs, or trout are raised commercially. Once one of these
herons learns how simple it is to obtain food at a trout hatchery, for example,
it may be trapped or shot. However, only individual troublesome birds justify
this practice, which can only be done by permit. "

On rec.ponds we have heard of one ponder who was allowed
to do this. And I do believe it was in the South somewhere.


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

On 23 May 2004 02:00:21 GMT, EROSPAM (Ka30P) wrote:

Mike wrote I had an interesting coversation yesterday with my local
professional
pond guy. He said that here in GA it's a huge fine if you kill a heron
without a license... but the license fee is $25.

It is very important to continued participation in ponding and rec.ponds to dot
all your i's and cross all your t's in this matter as the federal Migratory
Bird Act protects herons.

Oh-oh, did I miss a dot? You aren't threatening to revoke my rec.ponds
posting permit here, are you? :-)

"A violation of the act is considered a misdemeanor offense resulting in fines
up to $500 and six months in jail."

Ummmm, I think that's pretty much what I implied...dire consequences.
I suspect they reserve the "6 months in jail" bit for those psycho
types who would kill the critter for fun. You know, the types who tied
firecrackers to cat's tails and shoot at bald eagles.

and
"The Great Blue Heron has earned the enmity of man in some areas where
goldfish, turtles, frogs, or trout are raised commercially. Once one of these
herons learns how simple it is to obtain food at a trout hatchery, for example,
it may be trapped or shot. However, only individual troublesome birds justify
this practice, which can only be done by permit. "


Ooooookay. (BTW, I'm told the permit is cheap.)

Item of note: The guy who told me this lost a "$800 koi" (his words)
to a heron, so I think he looked into the matter in some depth.

On rec.ponds we have heard of one ponder who was allowed
to do this. And I do believe it was in the South somewhere.


Yee-ha! Georgia -is- in the South somewhere!


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

I really have no intention of killing a heron. I just thought it was
interesting that a permit is only $25. I would have expected it to
cost several hundred.

Or maybe it's very difficult to qualify for purchasing the permit.

Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific..."

Recovery from Heron Attack???
 

Mike wrote Or maybe it's very difficult to qualify for purchasing the
permit.

I think that is the case. The ponder who we heard about being able to get
fatally rid of the heron had tried everything, this was one determined bird.
And the ponder was elderly.

I posted all the rest of the information because
of the all too often suggest 'shoot 'em' solution to heron problems. Also why I
stick it at the bottom of my heron hints. Figure repeating it often can't hurt
with all the tri-zillions of messages out there.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A