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Old 17-05-2004, 07:08 PM
David
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum

I bought a house with a pond. The is pond oval (10x14x3) ~3000
Gallons...the pond has never been clear. It has been green. I
attributed this to the light on UV clarifier being burned out.

Now that spring has come I am often getting brown sludge floating on
top of the water. I can scoop it out but much of it dissolves and
reforms later...also I have not seen much improvement in water
clarity.....

I am at my wits end here is what I have tried to date.

1) I fixed my water clarifier (40W UV lamp)
2) I have cleaned my bio filter (filled 3/4 with aquarium gravel, 1/3
bio-media)
3) I am on my third bottle of Pond Care Algea fix
4) I have put two barley pads near the fountain.
5) I have added an air stone
6) I have added Pond Care pond-zyme and tetra pondclear (bacteria for
pond..these provide temporary relief after pond is "scooped" clean of
sludge)
7) I have added plants (both bottom and free floating.

This is not string algea since there is nothing stringy about it (its
slimey, brown, dirt)

Any tips would be helpful....I am also wondering if a mega (triple)
dose of bacteria treatment would help or could this hurt fish

  #2   Report Post  
Old 17-05-2004, 07:08 PM
Ka30P
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum


Has the pond been cleaned?
Did the previous owners tell you any history of its maintenance?

I think I'd clean out the pond. Pump out the pond's water.
Should take a couple hours - I have a 3,000 gallon pond. After you've got
almost all the water out, remove fish via net to a netted kiddy pool ( in
dappled shade if you have it, not full sun) filled with the pond's water. If
fish gasp at the suface add a bubbler to get more oxygen in the water.
Then scoop all the glop out that is on the bottom of the pond.
Makes good fertilizer. Do not scrub the sides. Refill, add dechlor or
dechloramine depending on your water supply (call your city and find out if
there is ammonia in your water), let the temperature get pretty close to the
water in the kiddy pool, put fish back in.
This is usually an all day affair. Order pizza, have beer and/or soda on hand.
It helps if you have a couple teenagers at home.

I'll post the green water hints below for you as far as future maintenance -


Algae fighting tips
~ Nutrients for all forms of algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized
run off, rotting plants, blown in dirt.
~ New ponds and spring ponds need time for plants to get established, algae is
quicker at getting going.
~ add plants, of any kind, in the pond. Especially underwater plants.
~ Shade is good - provided by lily pads, floating plants or artificial shade
for part of the day.
~ LOW fish stocking (20 gallons per goldfish, 100 per koi after starting with
1,000 gallons) and *not* overfeeding the fish. Too many fish and too much
feeding is probably responsible for most pea soup water, followed closely by
too much decaying plant matter, sludge and overall gunk in the water
~ adding a combination mechanical and biological filter to screen gunk and
convert fishy ammonia waste for fish health.
~ do not use algaecides, they only make lots of suddenly dead algae
and that will feed the next algae bloom.
~ do not worry about algae that grows on things (substrate algae) this is good
for a pond
~ gently remove string algae
~ build a veggie filter, to run water through plants
- as easy as floating water hyacinth in your filter or
Ingrid's post on plant filters:
The essence of a plant filter is a water proof container with the water from
the pond
being pumped in one end flowing thru the roots of various plants and flowing
back
into the pond at the other end.
It needs to be long enough that solids settle to the bottom OR have filter
material
that will slow or hold the solids (and get rinsed out periodically).
It needs plants of different kinds to maximize removal of all wastes.
it needs sufficient amount of plants to remove in one day all the wastes
produced by
the fish load in one day. It needs plants with extensive roots and/or plants
that get big so they used up more
nutrients. It needs to be only 8-12" deep so it doesnt go anaerobic.
~ clean up dead plant matter and screen for falling leaves
in the fall. Clean out pond once a year.
~ water movement, occasional water changes of 10%
~ add a sludge consumer, concentrated bacteria.
many rec.ponders use http://www.united-tech.com/m-aq4u-toc.html
~ Check your pH, too high, over 8.8, or too low, under 6.4, and most higher
plant forms can't take up the nutrients.
~ building ponds with bottom drains and skimmers.
~ UV lights work on suspended algae (green water) - does cost some $$.
~ patience and time ;-)



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A
  #3   Report Post  
Old 17-05-2004, 10:08 PM
Mouse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum


"David" wrote in message
om...
I bought a house with a pond. The is pond oval (10x14x3) ~3000
Gallons...the pond has never been clear. It has been green. I
attributed this to the light on UV clarifier being burned out.

Now that spring has come I am often getting brown sludge floating on
top of the water. I can scoop it out but much of it dissolves and
reforms later...also I have not seen much improvement in water
clarity.....

I am at my wits end here is what I have tried to date.

1) I fixed my water clarifier (40W UV lamp)
2) I have cleaned my bio filter (filled 3/4 with aquarium gravel, 1/3
bio-media)
3) I am on my third bottle of Pond Care Algea fix
4) I have put two barley pads near the fountain.
5) I have added an air stone
6) I have added Pond Care pond-zyme and tetra pondclear (bacteria for
pond..these provide temporary relief after pond is "scooped" clean of
sludge)
7) I have added plants (both bottom and free floating.

This is not string algea since there is nothing stringy about it (its
slimey, brown, dirt)

Any tips would be helpful....I am also wondering if a mega (triple)
dose of bacteria treatment would help or could this hurt fish


Its dead green Algae, UV is killing it but filter is not taking it out. I
have the same problem.
It goes away as the higher order plants take over. I keep it in check as
much as possible with normal doses of sludge eating bacteria, and frequent
cleaning of the filters. Don't expect it to disappear overnight. I usually
get it for a week or two at this time of year.
Mouse (Yorkshire UK)


  #4   Report Post  
Old 17-05-2004, 11:16 PM
David
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum

Thanks for the tip...wow cleaning the pond has really been my last
resort...there are lots of fish and of course I dont want to lose
any...further the task is rather daunting.....previous owners did not
leave much info....so i am going it alone.

I have two quick questions before I resign myself to draining the
pond:

1) Pondzyme (i.e. pond bacteria mixes), Is there a problem if too much
is put into pond...does megadosing bacteria mix in the spring help
water clarity? Would it be dangerous?

2) How about pool type vacuum, that allows vacuuming the bottom
without draining the pond...that said I cannot see the bottom of the
pond.

thanks so much for your help and thanks in advance for any uother tips


EROSPAM (Ka30P) wrote in message ...
Has the pond been cleaned?
Did the previous owners tell you any history of its maintenance?

I think I'd clean out the pond. Pump out the pond's water.
Should take a couple hours - I have a 3,000 gallon pond. After you've got
almost all the water out, remove fish via net to a netted kiddy pool ( in
dappled shade if you have it, not full sun) filled with the pond's water. If
fish gasp at the suface add a bubbler to get more oxygen in the water.
Then scoop all the glop out that is on the bottom of the pond.
Makes good fertilizer. Do not scrub the sides. Refill, add dechlor or
dechloramine depending on your water supply (call your city and find out if
there is ammonia in your water), let the temperature get pretty close to the
water in the kiddy pool, put fish back in.
This is usually an all day affair. Order pizza, have beer and/or soda on hand.
It helps if you have a couple teenagers at home.

I'll post the green water hints below for you as far as future maintenance -


Algae fighting tips
~ Nutrients for all forms of algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized
run off, rotting plants, blown in dirt.
~ New ponds and spring ponds need time for plants to get established, algae is
quicker at getting going.
~ add plants, of any kind, in the pond. Especially underwater plants.
~ Shade is good - provided by lily pads, floating plants or artificial shade
for part of the day.
~ LOW fish stocking (20 gallons per goldfish, 100 per koi after starting with
1,000 gallons) and *not* overfeeding the fish. Too many fish and too much
feeding is probably responsible for most pea soup water, followed closely by
too much decaying plant matter, sludge and overall gunk in the water
~ adding a combination mechanical and biological filter to screen gunk and
convert fishy ammonia waste for fish health.
~ do not use algaecides, they only make lots of suddenly dead algae
and that will feed the next algae bloom.
~ do not worry about algae that grows on things (substrate algae) this is good
for a pond
~ gently remove string algae
~ build a veggie filter, to run water through plants
- as easy as floating water hyacinth in your filter or
Ingrid's post on plant filters:
The essence of a plant filter is a water proof container with the water from
the pond
being pumped in one end flowing thru the roots of various plants and flowing
back
into the pond at the other end.
It needs to be long enough that solids settle to the bottom OR have filter
material
that will slow or hold the solids (and get rinsed out periodically).
It needs plants of different kinds to maximize removal of all wastes.
it needs sufficient amount of plants to remove in one day all the wastes
produced by
the fish load in one day. It needs plants with extensive roots and/or plants
that get big so they used up more
nutrients. It needs to be only 8-12" deep so it doesnt go anaerobic.
~ clean up dead plant matter and screen for falling leaves
in the fall. Clean out pond once a year.
~ water movement, occasional water changes of 10%
~ add a sludge consumer, concentrated bacteria.
many rec.ponders use
http://www.united-tech.com/m-aq4u-toc.html
~ Check your pH, too high, over 8.8, or too low, under 6.4, and most higher
plant forms can't take up the nutrients.
~ building ponds with bottom drains and skimmers.
~ UV lights work on suspended algae (green water) - does cost some $$.
~ patience and time ;-)



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

  #5   Report Post  
Old 17-05-2004, 11:18 PM
Ka30P
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum

David wrote
1) Pondzyme (i.e. pond bacteria mixes), Is there a problem if too much

is put into pond...does megadosing bacteria mix in the spring help
water clarity? Would it be dangerous?

2) How about pool type vacuum, that allows vacuuming the bottom
without draining the pond...that said I cannot see the bottom of the
pond.

Unfortunately I have no experience with either of those two topics, but others
have!
Also did you catch the answer about dead algae and UVs? I also don't run a UV.

I still recommend cleaning the pond as sludge does build up and a UV does
nothing for sludge. You can make a quick check by getting in, bending over
(brrr!) and seeing how much 'stuff' is down there ;-)


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A


  #6   Report Post  
Old 18-05-2004, 10:02 AM
Mouse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum

"David" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the tip...wow cleaning the pond has really been my last
resort...there are lots of fish and of course I dont want to lose
any...further the task is rather daunting.....previous owners did not
leave much info....so i am going it alone.

I have two quick questions before I resign myself to draining the
pond:

1) Pondzyme (i.e. pond bacteria mixes), Is there a problem if too much
is put into pond...does megadosing bacteria mix in the spring help
water clarity? Would it be dangerous?

2) How about pool type vacuum, that allows vacuuming the bottom
without draining the pond...that said I cannot see the bottom of the
pond.

thanks so much for your help and thanks in advance for any uother tips

Snipped

To add to my previous post, you need a very fine filter medium to filter it
out like fine foam, but be prepared for lots of cleaning. Also make sure the
UV is before the filter. Have searched the net but can find nothing on
dosing levels for Pondzyme. I have found the liquid bacteria better than the
powder forms of enzyme, (I use Blagdon Biosludgebuster, not sure if it is
available where you are) and dose initially once a week for the first month,
then a maintenance dose once a month.
My own experience of vacuums is that they tend to hoover up things like
plants and fry best :-)

Mouse (Yorkshire UK)


  #7   Report Post  
Old 18-05-2004, 04:17 PM
Jeff Spicoli
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum

"Mouse" wrote in
:

"David" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the tip...wow cleaning the pond has really been my last
resort...there are lots of fish and of course I dont want to lose
any...further the task is rather daunting.....previous owners did not
leave much info....so i am going it alone.

I have two quick questions before I resign myself to draining the
pond:

1) Pondzyme (i.e. pond bacteria mixes), Is there a problem if too much
is put into pond...does megadosing bacteria mix in the spring help
water clarity? Would it be dangerous?

2) How about pool type vacuum, that allows vacuuming the bottom
without draining the pond...that said I cannot see the bottom of the
pond.

thanks so much for your help and thanks in advance for any uother tips

Snipped

To add to my previous post, you need a very fine filter medium to
filter it out like fine foam, but be prepared for lots of cleaning.
Also make sure the UV is before the filter. Have searched the net but
can find nothing on dosing levels for Pondzyme. I have found the liquid
bacteria better than the powder forms of enzyme, (I use Blagdon
Biosludgebuster, not sure if it is available where you are) and dose
initially once a week for the first month, then a maintenance dose once
a month. My own experience of vacuums is that they tend to hoover up
things like plants and fry best :-)

Mouse (Yorkshire UK)




UV before the filter? Wouldn't the gunk possibly muck up the glass,
deteriorating the power of the UV?

I have mine as follows:

FILTER - UV - Waterfall (Veggi-filter) - Back into pond



--
B. Swanky - Boutique Giftware with Flair!
Specializes in clothing and gifts for infant, baby and toddler. We also
carry upscale handbags and accessories for women.
http://www.bswanky.com

  #8   Report Post  
Old 19-05-2004, 10:17 AM
Mouse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum


"Jeff Spicoli" wrote in message
45...
"Mouse" wrote in
:

"David" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the tip...wow cleaning the pond has really been my last
resort...there are lots of fish and of course I dont want to lose
any...further the task is rather daunting.....previous owners did not
leave much info....so i am going it alone.

I have two quick questions before I resign myself to draining the
pond:

1) Pondzyme (i.e. pond bacteria mixes), Is there a problem if too much
is put into pond...does megadosing bacteria mix in the spring help
water clarity? Would it be dangerous?

2) How about pool type vacuum, that allows vacuuming the bottom
without draining the pond...that said I cannot see the bottom of the
pond.

thanks so much for your help and thanks in advance for any uother tips

Snipped

To add to my previous post, you need a very fine filter medium to
filter it out like fine foam, but be prepared for lots of cleaning.
Also make sure the UV is before the filter. Have searched the net but
can find nothing on dosing levels for Pondzyme. I have found the liquid
bacteria better than the powder forms of enzyme, (I use Blagdon
Biosludgebuster, not sure if it is available where you are) and dose
initially once a week for the first month, then a maintenance dose once
a month. My own experience of vacuums is that they tend to hoover up
things like plants and fry best :-)

Mouse (Yorkshire UK)




UV before the filter? Wouldn't the gunk possibly muck up the glass,
deteriorating the power of the UV?

I have mine as follows:

FILTER - UV - Waterfall (Veggi-filter) - Back into pond



--
B. Swanky - Boutique Giftware with Flair!
Specializes in clothing and gifts for infant, baby and toddler. We also
carry upscale handbags and accessories for women.
http://www.bswanky.com


No problem with the UV, but green water goes through all but the very finest
mechanical filter medium. If the UV is after the filter it kills the algae
which is then deposited back in the pond if there is no further filtration.
You have in your case, a filter after the UV in the form of a veggie filter.

Mouse (Yorkshire UK)


  #9   Report Post  
Old 19-05-2004, 02:12 PM
Jeff Spicoli
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brown floating scum

"Mouse" wrote in
:


"Jeff Spicoli" wrote in message
45...
"Mouse" wrote in
:

"David" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the tip...wow cleaning the pond has really been my last
resort...there are lots of fish and of course I dont want to lose
any...further the task is rather daunting.....previous owners did
not leave much info....so i am going it alone.

I have two quick questions before I resign myself to draining the
pond:

1) Pondzyme (i.e. pond bacteria mixes), Is there a problem if too
much is put into pond...does megadosing bacteria mix in the spring
help water clarity? Would it be dangerous?

2) How about pool type vacuum, that allows vacuuming the bottom
without draining the pond...that said I cannot see the bottom of
the pond.

thanks so much for your help and thanks in advance for any uother
tips

Snipped

To add to my previous post, you need a very fine filter medium to
filter it out like fine foam, but be prepared for lots of cleaning.
Also make sure the UV is before the filter. Have searched the net
but can find nothing on dosing levels for Pondzyme. I have found the
liquid bacteria better than the powder forms of enzyme, (I use
Blagdon Biosludgebuster, not sure if it is available where you are)
and dose initially once a week for the first month, then a
maintenance dose once a month. My own experience of vacuums is that
they tend to hoover up things like plants and fry best :-)

Mouse (Yorkshire UK)




UV before the filter? Wouldn't the gunk possibly muck up the glass,
deteriorating the power of the UV?

I have mine as follows:

FILTER - UV - Waterfall (Veggi-filter) - Back into pond



--
B. Swanky - Boutique Giftware with Flair!
Specializes in clothing and gifts for infant, baby and toddler. We
also carry upscale handbags and accessories for women.
http://www.bswanky.com


No problem with the UV, but green water goes through all but the very
finest mechanical filter medium. If the UV is after the filter it kills
the algae which is then deposited back in the pond if there is no
further filtration. You have in your case, a filter after the UV in the
form of a veggie filter.

Mouse (Yorkshire UK)




Gotcha!


--
B. Swanky - Boutique Giftware with Flair!
Specializes in clothing and gifts for infant, baby and toddler. We also
carry upscale handbags and accessories for women.
http://www.bswanky.com



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