evaporation rate is worrying me
 

This is my first post so my apologies if this has been covered in
recent posts. I belong to rec. birds and someone directed me to you.

I have recently put in a small two tier waterfall draining into a
3'x3' "pond" for my feathered friends. Waterfall is about 6-8'
total length. Pond/receptacle part is loosing about 12" of water per
day. In comparison to a pool 12" is a lot but for this small holding
area I'm sure it isn't.

I finally put in a dripper system, running a 1/4" tube underground
with an adjustable mister at the pond end. Too lazy to run the hose
for 20 minutes each day.

I'm 98% sure the pond does not have a leak. Heavy duty rubber was put
in. I think I'm just no used to the evaporation rate and didn't know
what to expect.

Can anyone with a small warterfall/pond feature reassure me that they
too must top up their feature as I am?

Thank you.

Larry
Southern Ontario

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim

"Larry" wrote in message
...
This is my first post so my apologies if this has been covered in
recent posts. I belong to rec. birds and someone directed me to you.

I have recently put in a small two tier waterfall draining into a
3'x3' "pond" for my feathered friends. Waterfall is about 6-8'
total length. Pond/receptacle part is loosing about 12" of water per
day. In comparison to a pool 12" is a lot but for this small holding
area I'm sure it isn't.

I finally put in a dripper system, running a 1/4" tube underground
with an adjustable mister at the pond end. Too lazy to run the hose
for 20 minutes each day.

I'm 98% sure the pond does not have a leak. Heavy duty rubber was put
in. I think I'm just no used to the evaporation rate and didn't know
what to expect.

Can anyone with a small warterfall/pond feature reassure me that they
too must top up their feature as I am?

Thank you.

Larry
Southern Ontario

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim

"Larry" wrote in message
...
This is my first post so my apologies if this has been covered in
recent posts. I belong to rec. birds and someone directed me to you.

I have recently put in a small two tier waterfall draining into a
3'x3' "pond" for my feathered friends. Waterfall is about 6-8'
total length. Pond/receptacle part is loosing about 12" of water per
day. In comparison to a pool 12" is a lot but for this small holding
area I'm sure it isn't.

I finally put in a dripper system, running a 1/4" tube underground
with an adjustable mister at the pond end. Too lazy to run the hose
for 20 minutes each day.

I'm 98% sure the pond does not have a leak. Heavy duty rubber was put
in. I think I'm just no used to the evaporation rate and didn't know
what to expect.

Can anyone with a small warterfall/pond feature reassure me that they
too must top up their feature as I am?

Thank you.

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario

I don't think it is evaporation, it could be splash, or could be wicking
away somewhere along the waterfall's course. How wet is the ground around
the waterfall area? ~ jan

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:57:51 -0400, Larry wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario



~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I don't think it is evaporation, it could be splash, or could be wicking
away somewhere along the waterfall's course. How wet is the ground around
the waterfall area? ~ jan

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:57:51 -0400, Larry wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario



~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I don't think it is evaporation, it could be splash, or could be wicking
away somewhere along the waterfall's course. How wet is the ground around
the waterfall area? ~ jan

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:57:51 -0400, Larry wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only 9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68 gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario



~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Maybe I can help. I have a 2500 gallon pond and started losing about 3" a
day. Looked carefully and found a hairline crack along the waterfall. It
was maybe 1/16th of an inch, or less. I thought there was no way a tiny
crack could be the issue, but once I sealed it it was solved. Guess I
should have paid more attention in high school physics.

gary
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I don't think it is evaporation, it could be splash, or could be wicking
away somewhere along the waterfall's course. How wet is the ground around
the waterfall area? ~ jan

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:57:51 -0400, Larry wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only
9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68
gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a
day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range
for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but
not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect
a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario



~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Maybe I can help. I have a 2500 gallon pond and started losing about 3" a
day. Looked carefully and found a hairline crack along the waterfall. It
was maybe 1/16th of an inch, or less. I thought there was no way a tiny
crack could be the issue, but once I sealed it it was solved. Guess I
should have paid more attention in high school physics.

gary
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I don't think it is evaporation, it could be splash, or could be wicking
away somewhere along the waterfall's course. How wet is the ground around
the waterfall area? ~ jan

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:57:51 -0400, Larry wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 02:40:35 GMT, "tim chandler"
wrote:

Larry,

It sure sounds like a leak. To lose a foot a day in a 3'x3' area (only
9
square feet of surface area) is 9 cubic feet of water or about 67-68
gallons
a day! If you had, say, 150 square feet of pond instead in full sun and
lived in a hot and dry and/or windy climate, then to lose that much a
day
would take it down less than an inch and wouldn't be out of the range
for
evaporation alone.

You may be able to pin it down by filling everything up to the brim but
not
running the waterfall. Let it stand for a day and see what part loses
water. If nothing goes down, then yes, evaporation from your waterfall
could be the problem - but to lose that much in a day I'd still suspect
a
leak.

Happy Ponding,
Tim


Thanks Tim,

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

TIA

Larry
Southern Ontario



~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Larry wrote:

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

Sounds more like it is contributing to the leak, a fairly sizable leak
somewhere in the waterfall or its plumbing. Most ponds here need some
draining due to the rain we have been getting. No one here is adding
water.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Larry wrote:

As I posted the message tonight, I thought about the 12" estimate.
Thought that it sounded like a lot so I stuck my hands in with a tape
to see. I'd estimate closer to 8". When I'm away for a few days I
turn the pump waterfall pump off. I loose very little during those
few days.

Does anyone know if the waterfall is contributing to the vast majority
of evaporation.

Sounds more like it is contributing to the leak, a fairly sizable leak
somewhere in the waterfall or its plumbing. Most ponds here need some
draining due to the rain we have been getting. No one here is adding
water.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:22:11 -0700, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

I don't think it is evaporation, it could be splash, or could be wicking
away somewhere along the waterfall's course. How wet is the ground around
the waterfall area? ~ jan

Hi Jan,

The pond liner extends a good 2' on both sides of the course. The
ground is not wet. I'll ask Gary how he found his crack.

Thanks,

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:31:34 -0700, "gng"
wrote:

Maybe I can help. I have a 2500 gallon pond and started losing about 3" a
day. Looked carefully and found a hairline crack along the waterfall. It
was maybe 1/16th of an inch, or less. I thought there was no way a tiny
crack could be the issue, but once I sealed it it was solved. Guess I
should have paid more attention in high school physics.

Hi Gary,

How did you find that crack? I have rocks on the liner all the way
down. Did you listen or see the crack first. Water seems to sit okay
in the top tier (1") when the pump is turned off and it seems to stay
in the larger bottom receptacle(3x3') when I turn it off. Sounds
like a bit of grunt work coming.

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:31:34 -0700, "gng"
wrote:

Maybe I can help. I have a 2500 gallon pond and started losing about 3" a
day. Looked carefully and found a hairline crack along the waterfall. It
was maybe 1/16th of an inch, or less. I thought there was no way a tiny
crack could be the issue, but once I sealed it it was solved. Guess I
should have paid more attention in high school physics.

Hi Gary,

How did you find that crack? I have rocks on the liner all the way
down. Did you listen or see the crack first. Water seems to sit okay
in the top tier (1") when the pump is turned off and it seems to stay
in the larger bottom receptacle(3x3') when I turn it off. Sounds
like a bit of grunt work coming.

Larry
Southern Ontario

Aside from a leak inside...you may have water spilling out from the
perimeters....check the edges of the pond to see if it's level to see if
some liner caved in.
You may have to remove all of the rocks around the pond. There may be
water exiting a fold etc.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:07:40 -0500, (matrix j)
wrote:

Aside from a leak inside...you may have water spilling out from the
perimeters....check the edges of the pond to see if it's level to see if
some liner caved in.
You may have to remove all of the rocks around the pond. There may be
water exiting a fold etc.

That's exactly what has happened. The contractor is coming tomorrow.

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:07:40 -0500, (matrix j)
wrote:

Aside from a leak inside...you may have water spilling out from the
perimeters....check the edges of the pond to see if it's level to see if
some liner caved in.
You may have to remove all of the rocks around the pond. There may be
water exiting a fold etc.

That's exactly what has happened. The contractor is coming tomorrow.

Larry
Southern Ontario

Glad to be of help.

The same thing happened to me on my first pond. Those folds have a way
of slipping below the water line. It's rare that a liner is punctured.

Rains, soil erosion and ground shifting are usually the culprits.

Glad to be of help.

The same thing happened to me on my first pond. Those folds have a way
of slipping below the water line. It's rare that a liner is punctured.

Rains, soil erosion and ground shifting are usually the culprits.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:24:51 -0500, (matrix j)
wrote:

Glad to be of help.

The same thing happened to me on my first pond. Those folds have a way
of slipping below the water line. It's rare that a liner is punctured.

Rains, soil erosion and ground shifting are usually the culprits.

Thanks again Matrix for the advice and info.
Went back out today to do battle again. Figured by the time the
contractor comes I can figure it out myself. The liner on the side
under the rocks did indeed slip below the 2nd tier of the waterfall.

Lifted it an inch and made sure the decorative rocks on top would not
push it back down.

So far after two hours the water level is holding. Can't believe I
was topping up the stupid thing each day for about 3 weeks before I
got into this group. All my family is coming this weekend and I'm a
happy camper that it's up and running again.

Any wine enthusiasts(who drink by their ponds of course) out there I
can direct you to an equally enjoyable ng.

All the best,

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:24:51 -0500, (matrix j)
wrote:

Glad to be of help.

The same thing happened to me on my first pond. Those folds have a way
of slipping below the water line. It's rare that a liner is punctured.

Rains, soil erosion and ground shifting are usually the culprits.

Thanks again Matrix for the advice and info.
Went back out today to do battle again. Figured by the time the
contractor comes I can figure it out myself. The liner on the side
under the rocks did indeed slip below the 2nd tier of the waterfall.

Lifted it an inch and made sure the decorative rocks on top would not
push it back down.

So far after two hours the water level is holding. Can't believe I
was topping up the stupid thing each day for about 3 weeks before I
got into this group. All my family is coming this weekend and I'm a
happy camper that it's up and running again.

Any wine enthusiasts(who drink by their ponds of course) out there I
can direct you to an equally enjoyable ng.

All the best,

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:24:51 -0500, (matrix j)
wrote:

Glad to be of help.

The same thing happened to me on my first pond. Those folds have a way
of slipping below the water line. It's rare that a liner is punctured.

Rains, soil erosion and ground shifting are usually the culprits.

Thanks again Matrix for the advice and info.
Went back out today to do battle again. Figured by the time the
contractor comes I can figure it out myself. The liner on the side
under the rocks did indeed slip below the 2nd tier of the waterfall.

Lifted it an inch and made sure the decorative rocks on top would not
push it back down.

So far after two hours the water level is holding. Can't believe I
was topping up the stupid thing each day for about 3 weeks before I
got into this group. All my family is coming this weekend and I'm a
happy camper that it's up and running again.

Any wine enthusiasts(who drink by their ponds of course) out there I
can direct you to an equally enjoyable ng.

All the best,

Larry
Southern Ontario

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:07:41 -0400, Larry wrote:

Any wine enthusiasts(who drink by their ponds of course) out there I
can direct you to an equally enjoyable ng.
Larry

Wine enthusiasts have a ng?! rec.wino? Just kidding, not a wine enthusiast
obviously, but put a glass of ice wine in front of me and I'll down it. But
as my BIL informed me, that's not wine, that's syrup!
;o) ~ jan
~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:07:41 -0400, Larry wrote:

Any wine enthusiasts(who drink by their ponds of course) out there I
can direct you to an equally enjoyable ng.
Larry

Wine enthusiasts have a ng?! rec.wino? Just kidding, not a wine enthusiast
obviously, but put a glass of ice wine in front of me and I'll down it. But
as my BIL informed me, that's not wine, that's syrup!
;o) ~ jan
~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~