Hi,

I just have a few questions for the group concerning winterizing:

1. To run the waterfall or to not run the waterfall...
Pros: ensures a hole is available for stuff to get out if pond freezes...
actually, waterflow should reduce chances of pond freezing
Looks pretty
Water tempature should be higher than if not run (true?)
Cons: Still paying electrical cost
Waterfall may freeze at parts, causing water to go outside of pond
--Is this really true? As a decent flow rate how does it freeze?

2. When to stop feeding...
-- Reports range from 55 to 45 degrees
--- at what depth do we concern ourselves with..(1' temp != 3' temp)


Bonus question:

a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone explain how?


Nasa

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:47:54 -0600, "Nathan A. Smith"
wrote:

===Hi,
===
===I just have a few questions for the group concerning winterizing:
===
===1. To run the waterfall or to not run the waterfall...
=== Pros: ensures a hole is available for stuff to get out if pond freezes...
=== actually, waterflow should reduce chances of pond freezing
=== Looks pretty
=== Water tempature should be higher than if not run (true?)
=== Cons: Still paying electrical cost
=== Waterfall may freeze at parts, causing water to go outside of pond
=== --Is this really true? As a decent flow rate how does it freeze?

I can see this happening very easy. Lots of small creeks etc around
the area I used to live in in Pennsylvania had small waterfalls, and
it was not uncommon for them to divert to different places when the
falls accumulated an ice buildup. Its not the moving water as much as
the splash the water makes. It freezes quick as its a small amount at
a time, and in time it builds up and gets bigger and bigger, until it
starts diverting ther water elsewhere. NOt a lot of room to divert
water in a home pond without it getting out of the given path, and
since there is only a givenamount of water unlike a natural spring fed
creek etc its gonna run out of water after it diverts its flow out of
the desired path.
===
===2. When to stop feeding...
=== -- Reports range from 55 to 45 degrees
=== --- at what depth do we concern ourselves with..(1' temp != 3' temp)

I can;t say, but I have read some foods are fine at all temps, some at
certain temps and some info says no food at all PERIOD even if a warm
spell brings the fish out of their hibernation like state. Wheat germ
based foods are suppoosedly safe in cold water, but allthe fish I have
ever been familiar with especially down south just never appear again
until its warm and comfy in the water..........so feeding may be
pointless. I feed floating food to my game fish and in cold spells it
goes untouched on the surface, and its not anywhere near as cold here
as it is up north. I would say if th fish are healthy and well fed
going into cold weather they should be just fine if water depth, hole
in ice etc etc are suitable for the conditions they are in.
===
===
===Bonus question:
===
===a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone explain how?

Has something to do with the molecules in the water being aggitated or
spread out it does not allow the transfer of heat or cold to occur as
it would if the water was still. Same thing with how hot water
freezes quicker than cold water does if a container of each was placed
in a freezer The molecules in the hot water are expanded and closer
together so it transmits the temp quicker. Can't say if its true or
not, but its what I have heard and read on many occasions.
===
===
===Nasa

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

Hi Nasa,

Water forms layers when it is cold. The bottom of the pond can be several
degrees warmer than the top. Someone here once measured the temps with a
thermometer.

The still water is also easier on the fish, they don't have to work against a
current.

I'd go with the 55 degree temperature to stop feeding. That way you won't be
caught by a sudden down turn of the temps.
Go with the temperature at the top of the pond, just because it is easier.

Bonus question: a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone
explain how?

Darn, don't get to go for the bonus points!


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

What is this talk about Winter!
--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC
"Nathan A. Smith" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I just have a few questions for the group concerning winterizing:

1. To run the waterfall or to not run the waterfall...
Pros: ensures a hole is available for stuff to get out if pond
freezes...
actually, waterflow should reduce chances of pond freezing
Looks pretty
Water tempature should be higher than if not run (true?)
Cons: Still paying electrical cost
Waterfall may freeze at parts, causing water to go outside of pond
--Is this really true? As a decent flow rate how does it freeze?

2. When to stop feeding...
-- Reports range from 55 to 45 degrees
--- at what depth do we concern ourselves with..(1' temp != 3' temp)


Bonus question:

a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone explain how?


Nasa

On 01 Sep 2004 02:13:43 GMT, EROSPAM (Ka30P) wrote:

===
===Hi Nasa,
===
===Water forms layers when it is cold. The bottom of the pond can be several
===degrees warmer than the top. Someone here once measured the temps with a
===thermometer.
===
===The still water is also easier on the fish, they don't have to work against a
===current.
===
===I'd go with the 55 degree temperature to stop feeding. That way you won't be
===caught by a sudden down turn of the temps.
===Go with the temperature at the top of the pond, just because it is easier.
===
===Bonus question: a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone
===explain how?
===
===Darn, don't get to go for the bonus points!
===
===
===kathy :-)
===algae primer
===http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html


Correct me if I am wrong but are these layers not referred to as
thermo clines? I can see a thermocline happening if there is
sufficient depth, but have a hard time thinking you would have a
thermocline in a pond of only 2 feet or 3 feet of depth, unless it may
be an inground type pond. I have to think an above ground pond would
be pretty darn close to the same temp most of the way down to the
bottom.

Can you tell I am totally ignorant when it comes to cold weather, and
I used to be a yankee at one time....but that was many many years ago.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

Roy wrote ut have a hard time thinking you would have a
thermocline in a pond of only 2 feet or 3 feet of depth, unless it may
be an inground type pond. I have to think an above ground pond would
be pretty darn close to the same temp most of the way down to the
bottom.

Don't know what the OP's pond is, above or below, mine is below ground. But at
sometime someone tested the temp in their pond and there was a couple degrees
difference. I'm too fond of my fireplace, my books and my warm labradors to
experiment with this. Anyone out there want to experiment this winter??


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

"Jim Humphries" wrote in message
news:alaZc.287170$J06.120685@pd7tw2no...
What is this talk about Winter!
--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC

We know you guys don't get winter in Victoria.

Here in frigid Ontario, some trees have changed colour and others have
started dropping their leaves. It won't belong before there is frost on the
pumpkin.


"Nathan A. Smith" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I just have a few questions for the group concerning winterizing:

1. To run the waterfall or to not run the waterfall...
Pros: ensures a hole is available for stuff to get out if pond
freezes...
actually, waterflow should reduce chances of pond freezing
Looks pretty
Water tempature should be higher than if not run (true?)
Cons: Still paying electrical cost
Waterfall may freeze at parts, causing water to go outside of pond
--Is this really true? As a decent flow rate how does it freeze?

2. When to stop feeding...
-- Reports range from 55 to 45 degrees
--- at what depth do we concern ourselves with..(1' temp != 3'
temp)


Bonus question:

a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone explain
how?


Nasa

Your first question about whether to have the waterfall run in winter would
somewhat depend on where you are. I am in zone 7 and the ponders in my area
leave the falls running. We have had one winter that ice covered the pond
for very long, and that was the only year that the ice got any depth. It
will keep the water oxygenated and the hole in the ice.

Second question on feeding, 50 degrees is the temperature that I have always
heard, but keep an eye on the weatherman, if a big cold front is coming that
would knock the temperature of the pond down, don't feed for several days.

Bonus question, water evaporates, and when water evaporates their is a thing
called latent heat of vaporization that cools the water left behind. To
experience this cooling, step out of a shower in front of a fan. The more
splashing and the more surface area, the more evaporation. Higher winds and
lower humidities also increase evaporation. If the pond is warmer than the
atmosphere, it is like a coffee cup, giving off steam which is evaporation.
If it is cooler than the dew point, then it will have reverse evaporation,
condensation, like you would experience on a cold drink glass or bottle.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Nathan A. Smith" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I just have a few questions for the group concerning winterizing:

1. To run the waterfall or to not run the waterfall...
Pros: ensures a hole is available for stuff to get out if pond
freezes...
actually, waterflow should reduce chances of pond freezing
Looks pretty
Water tempature should be higher than if not run (true?)
Cons: Still paying electrical cost
Waterfall may freeze at parts, causing water to go outside of pond
--Is this really true? As a decent flow rate how does it freeze?

2. When to stop feeding...
-- Reports range from 55 to 45 degrees
--- at what depth do we concern ourselves with..(1' temp != 3' temp)


Bonus question:

a) I know water flow effects water tempature -- could someone explain how?


Nasa

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

Hi Nasa,

Water forms layers when it is cold. The bottom of the pond can be several
degrees warmer than the top. Someone here once measured the temps with a
thermometer.

The still water is also easier on the fish, they don't have to work against a
current.

I'd go with the 55 degree temperature to stop feeding. That way you won't be
caught by a sudden down turn of the temps.

My albino channel catfish is a good thermometer where feeding is concerned. He
simply will not eat if the water temperature drops below 52 degrees F, although
the gold fish and Koi will nibble if given a little food. So when my catfish
stops eating, I stop feeding them all, or at least only feed them when the
temperature gets above 52 degrees F. And even then, I only give them a small
amount that they can eat in a couple of minutes, and only a couple of times per
week, if the temperature allows, and only if they are interested.

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

Hi Nasa,

Water forms layers when it is cold. The bottom of the pond can be several
degrees warmer than the top. Someone here once measured the temps with a
thermometer.

The still water is also easier on the fish, they don't have to work against a
current.

I'd go with the 55 degree temperature to stop feeding. That way you won't be
caught by a sudden down turn of the temps.

My albino channel catfish is a good thermometer where feeding is concerned. He
simply will not eat if the water temperature drops below 52 degrees F, although
the gold fish and Koi will nibble if given a little food. So when my catfish
stops eating, I stop feeding them all, or at least only feed them when the
temperature gets above 52 degrees F. And even then, I only give them a small
amount that they can eat in a couple of minutes, and only a couple of times per
week, if the temperature allows, and only if they are interested.

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote ut have a hard time thinking you would have a
thermocline in a pond of only 2 feet or 3 feet of depth, unless it may
be an inground type pond. I have to think an above ground pond would
be pretty darn close to the same temp most of the way down to the
bottom.

Don't know what the OP's pond is, above or below, mine is below ground. But at
sometime someone tested the temp in their pond and there was a couple degrees
difference. I'm too fond of my fireplace, my books and my warm labradors to
experiment with this. Anyone out there want to experiment this winter??

Well, there you go. You've done and challanged me. I tried to do it last year,
but didn't have the right thermometers for the job. I'll be doing it this
winter, and post the results. Remember though, that any results I get may not
apply at a different latitude.

"Jim Humphries" wrote in message
news:alaZc.287170$J06.120685@pd7tw2no...
What is this talk about Winter!

Never too soon to prepare.

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...

"Jim Humphries" wrote in message
news:alaZc.287170$J06.120685@pd7tw2no...
What is this talk about Winter!
--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC

We know you guys don't get winter in Victoria.

Here in frigid Ontario, some trees have changed colour and others have
started dropping their leaves. It won't belong before there is frost on the
pumpkin.

Ugh! I live in Kentucky, and we've had an abnormally cool summer. So when you
tell me that you have leaves dropping already, I just have to groan! We had an
early spring, and a mild summer so I expect an early fall, and a cold winter.
Gee. I can't wait. NOT!

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...

"Jim Humphries" wrote in message
news:alaZc.287170$J06.120685@pd7tw2no...
What is this talk about Winter!
--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC

We know you guys don't get winter in Victoria.

Here in frigid Ontario, some trees have changed colour and others have
started dropping their leaves. It won't belong before there is frost on the
pumpkin.

Ugh! I live in Kentucky, and we've had an abnormally cool summer. So when you
tell me that you have leaves dropping already, I just have to groan! We had an
early spring, and a mild summer so I expect an early fall, and a cold winter.
Gee. I can't wait. NOT!

correct, no thermocline but the warmer ground gives up heat thru the liner to the
water. Ingrid

(Roy) wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but are these layers not referred to as
thermo clines? I can see a thermocline happening if there is
sufficient depth, but have a hard time thinking you would have a
thermocline in a pond of only 2 feet or 3 feet of depth,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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http://puregold.aquaria.net/
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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