don't know about the chemicals, ask the pet shop man. But leave out the fish
as long as you have patience for. A year is good. Maybe next early summer.
Let the pond settle


"Rob" wrote in message
m...
Oh, I'm an excited new ponder. After a month of recovering from a
back injury (due to digging out my 400 gallon pond!),

PS. How long before I could add fauna?

I'd wait two weeks.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

Hi Rob - Welcome to insanity, but we love it. I use Becket Chloramine
remover which I get from Lowe's. I believe it is the best buy. I use
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits from Petsmart,but none are perfect for my
taste, because all 3( Pond, Salt, Freshwater) arent quite all the tests
individually in each 'set'. You will need a pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and
Nitrate to test for cycling your bio filter and an occasional kH(alkalinity)
and gH(general hardness) test strip.

Two weeks sounds like a good start on adding any fish, but the key is adding
them slowly. I speak from experience when I say the biggest newbie mistake
is probably adding too many fish too fast. Ecspecially with winter coming
on your filter will take a will to develope bio bacteria to handle the
ammonia and nitrites, and then will probably die back as it becomes colder.
So the water will be the only thing to dissipate the ammonia and nitrites
(bad stuff) in your water, which the fish create. The more and bigger fish
you have, with no established filter, the quicker they start get poisoned
and become susceptible to bacteria and parasitic infections. You spend
time, trouble and money trying to diagnose and correct the problem. Fewer
fish, fewer problems. I started with one small comet and 2 little
shubunkins - that was good (850 Gallons). Then as spring came around I
decided to add about a dozen feeder comets - I mean after all what could
that hurt. You will hear stories of how someone started with tiny feeders
and now they have 40 nice sized ones that grew from the original 6. You
may also hear as many stories about how the feeders introduced disease and
infection and thats when the problems began. The feeders are grown in very
poor conditions and I personally would advise against them. Strickly
speaking you set up a holding tank and quarantine any new fish for up to a
month, watching for problems such as ick, fungus, ragged fins, lethagy,
flashing, swelling etc. Though perhaps less than ideal I personally would
go ahead and use the pond as a holding tank and just know that if problems
begin you will have to treat 400 gallons instead of 20-100 gallons. Water
adjustments are still quite reasonably priced untill you start getting up to
koi sized ponds. I have learned a heck of a lot from this group in the past
9 months but the two main things I have learned is 1)TAKE CARE OF YOUR WATER
PARAMETERS and 2) Carefully and slowly add fish and plants to your pond and
you will probably have much fewer problems. You and your fish will spend
much more time in delight than distress. Yes, plants should also be treated
before putting them in your pond, to knock of any bad 'bugs', snails etc.
You will know you are on the right track when you start getting string algae
and/or bloom. Algae is generally a good thing, although too much of any
good things often becomes bad.
Have Fun! It is a wonderful hobby. As your personal symptoms appear,
someone will tell you what PORGdom is. There is no cure for this except
enjoying your pond to the max.
Good Luck
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

"Rob" wrote in message
om...
Oh, I'm an excited new ponder. After a month of recovering from a
back injury (due to digging out my 400 gallon pond!), I put in the
liner & water, ran the electricity and turned on the pump. The short
waterfall with small veggie filters isn't running yet, but the pump
pushes the water through the Oase pressurized filter. No koi planned,
just goldfish and hopefully frogs.

Questions: I live in San Francisco, where we have chloramine in the
water. What do I use to counteract it? Can you recommend a good
water testing kit? How often should I test? If I add more water to
compensate for evaporation, do I need to add more chems to nix the
chloramine? How long before I could add fauna?

Thanks...

Rob,

Chloramine is a blend of ammonia and chlorine. If you treat only for the
chlorine, then there is ammonia left over. This is not necessarily bad,
since the filter will consume it, in an established pond. For complete
water fills, I recommend a chloramine treatment, such as Amquel, but for 10%
water changes and the like, a chlorine treatment is sufficient, unless the
filter has not cycled, and the pond is full of ammonia.

As for tests, I like the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals brands. They don't really
have a kit that tests everything. Most important is ammonia and nitrIte,
since these can get very high during the startup of the filters, or with the
addition of large numbers of fish at a time. These will kill fish. A lot
of people like a pH test kit, but I think the KH Carbonate Hardness test is
more important. If the carbonate hardness is above 80, the pH will be
stable, probably something over 8 and the fish will be happy with it being
stable. People sometimes freak out over the pH not being down at around 7.
GH or General Hardness is nice to know, but after it is run once or twice,
unless you are having to add calcium to get the numbers up, the test isn't
that important. Salt Test is very important if you have to treat any
ailments, since the best treatment is salt. Salt will also allow you to
back calculate the actual volume of water in the pond. If the pond has
plenty of plants, the NitrAtes should be low, but in a pond without plants,
the nitrAtes can build up and the pond needs major water changes to reduce
the levels. The NitrAte test is beneficial in knowing if water changes are
required, though most will recommend a 10% water change a week regardless.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Rob" wrote in message
om...
Oh, I'm an excited new ponder. After a month of recovering from a
back injury (due to digging out my 400 gallon pond!), I put in the
liner & water, ran the electricity and turned on the pump. The short
waterfall with small veggie filters isn't running yet, but the pump
pushes the water through the Oase pressurized filter. No koi planned,
just goldfish and hopefully frogs.

Questions: I live in San Francisco, where we have chloramine in the
water. What do I use to counteract it? Can you recommend a good
water testing kit? How often should I test? If I add more water to
compensate for evaporation, do I need to add more chems to nix the
chloramine? How long before I could add fauna?

Thanks...

don't know about the chemicals, ask the pet shop man.

Ask "the pet shop" man? !!!!!!!!!!!!

If pet shop people were all trained/knowledgeable individuals there would
not be the need for rec.groups. You must have a great shop with
knowledgeable individuals to suggest that, unfortunately, that is the
exception, not the norm, you are very lucky.

New pond:

All the plants you can afford and fit in. Treat the Chloramines, wait 48
hours, add 2 fish and wait till next year (assuming OP is in an area where
fall is just around the corner).

Test kits: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals as already suggested, Ammonia, the 2
bottle tester that lets you know if you've detox the ammonia in the
chloramines, Nitrite, pH & KH test kits. Order from www.thatpetplace.com
fresh and usually cheaper.

Though I like NutraFin/Hagen's brand of pH kit as they have a wide range
test from 4.5 up to 9.5, and a really nice *printed on the box* expiration
date, so you know for sure.

Have Amquel or similar on hand, not just for detoxing the chloramines, but
when ammonia shows up on the test kit. Salt to detox nitrites. If you only
add 2 fish, you should have very little noticeable cycle or problems, ime.
~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

don't know about the chemicals, ask the pet shop man.

Ask "the pet shop" man? !!!!!!!!!!!!

If pet shop people were all trained/knowledgeable individuals there would
not be the need for rec.groups. You must have a great shop with
knowledgeable individuals to suggest that, unfortunately, that is the
exception, not the norm, you are very lucky.

New pond:

All the plants you can afford and fit in. Treat the Chloramines, wait 48
hours, add 2 fish and wait till next year (assuming OP is in an area where
fall is just around the corner).

Test kits: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals as already suggested, Ammonia, the 2
bottle tester that lets you know if you've detox the ammonia in the
chloramines, Nitrite, pH & KH test kits. Order from www.thatpetplace.com
fresh and usually cheaper.

Though I like NutraFin/Hagen's brand of pH kit as they have a wide range
test from 4.5 up to 9.5, and a really nice *printed on the box* expiration
date, so you know for sure.

Have Amquel or similar on hand, not just for detoxing the chloramines, but
when ammonia shows up on the test kit. Salt to detox nitrites. If you only
add 2 fish, you should have very little noticeable cycle or problems, ime.
~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website