Second time now , i give up! Are you allowed to shoot cranes in NJ ?
After first time i put a 3ft. section of 4in pvc pipe in pond , some
one told me that will let fish escape killer crane! It don't work! I saw
that giant bird eating my fish , but it was too late to save Huhey ,
Dewy , louy , & spot! R.I.P. !
BILL

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:27:35 -0500, wrote:

Second time now , i give up! Are you allowed to shoot cranes in NJ ?
After first time i put a 3ft. section of 4in pvc pipe in pond , some
one told me that will let fish escape killer crane! It don't work! I saw
that giant bird eating my fish , but it was too late to save Huhey ,
Dewy , louy , & spot! R.I.P. !
BILL

A Scarecrow worked for me. Installed one after I lost a Koi.

http://www.kissingfrogs.tv/scarecrow.html


Steve J. Noll | Ventura California (USDA Zone 10)
| The Glass Block Koi Pond/Fountain:
| http://www.kissingfrogs.tv

wrote in message
...
Second time now , i give up! Are you allowed to shoot cranes in NJ ?

$ No! They're protected by law. You cannot kill them. You can net your
ponds as we did - or someone else here will tell you what worked for them.
Cranes weren't our problem, the herons, king fishers, bullfrogs, mud turtles
and large water snakes were. We lost hundreds of dollars worth of fish
before resorting to those fine black bird nets.

After first time i put a 3ft. section of 4in pvc pipe in pond , some
one told me that will let fish escape killer crane!

$ That's an old wives tale. I also had places for them to hide. The bird
will wait patiently for them to leave their hideout, then just swoop them
up! Birds are a lot smarter than fish.

It don't work! I saw
that giant bird eating my fish , but it was too late to save Huhey ,
Dewy , louy , & spot! R.I.P. !
BILL

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
"To persevere in one's duty and
be silent, is the best answer to calumny."
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

No, you can't kill migratory birds, huge fine (sometimes
$5000, possible jail time) - takes away from pond dollars
and pond time.
Was your bird a heron, steel blue in color, buff colored
neck, some black on head, if old enough will have a black
crest, long beak.
Doesn't matter really as it is a fish eater all the same.

You can
- use an electric shock pet fence
- motion activated sprinkler
- net your pond
-surround your pond with fishing line, especially in the
area where the bird lands

ALL these will work. It just depends on your particular pond, how it is
situated, how your yard is set up and your particular heron. You may
have to experiment. Good luck and let us know how it goes. We like to
hear success stories!

kathy :-)

You can shoot and kill cranes and other migatory birds such as herons
if they are destroying property. Here's how:

Call USDA Wildlife Services at 303-236-8171 and explain to them that
you are filing a migatory bird depredation permit application and need
form 37. Explain to them that a crane (or whatever bird) is destroying
your property and you would like to destroy it.

Once you get form 37 go to http://forms.fws.gov/3-200-13.pdf , fill it
out and send it in. Once you get your permit you'll be able to destroy
the bird legally.

Sam

Hi Sam,
I always thought this was available only to persons who
suffer significant economic loss, like fish farmers.

That said, I went and read the permit and it does say you
have to really have tried nonlethal means and you have to
continue nonlethal means.

So then I called the number and left a message (past working
hours in Denver) and asked specifically about backyard ponds
and koi keeping.
Also wondering what kind of lethal means would be available to
your average suburban pond owner?

Should be interesting what I hear back!

kathy :-)

Hi Kathy,

Property is property. A $5.00 koi to you might be a $1,000 koi
to someone else. Many wildlife laws have provisions to kill animals if
they are destroying private property. For instance I routinely use the
provision in the hunting code to allow me to trap animals that are
causing damage in my wildlife reserve. Usually the only provision is
that you cannot keep the animal's body. For instance I can't catch mink
out of season and make a coat out of them. They are either turned over
to the game commission or thrown out.

While I try to keep animals alive and use deterrents whenever
possible if they are destroying things there comes a point where they
must be destroyed.

Sam



kathy wrote:
Hi Sam,
I always thought this was available only to persons who
suffer significant economic loss, like fish farmers.

That said, I went and read the permit and it does say you
have to really have tried nonlethal means and you have to
continue nonlethal means.

So then I called the number and left a message (past working
hours in Denver) and asked specifically about backyard ponds
and koi keeping.
Also wondering what kind of lethal means would be available to
your average suburban pond owner?

Should be interesting what I hear back!

kathy :-)

Hi Sam,

A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting
a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang
safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But
most of us had no idea herons even existed until we
put in our ponds.

And I have no problem with animals that you describe.
I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my
feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard.

I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge
bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his
visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What
a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish
seem to be up on the surface lazing around every
afternoon.

kathy :-)

"kathy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Sam,

A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting
a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang
safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But
most of us had no idea herons even existed until we
put in our ponds.

And I have no problem with animals that you describe.
I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my
feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard.

I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge
bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his
visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What
a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish
seem to be up on the surface lazing around every
afternoon.

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? We put in
ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local inhabitants,
and then we want to kill the inhabitants? This reminds me of the "bear
problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building houses
and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing
their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear problem.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
Help IHeartMyPond.com, by doing all of your eBay shopping via our
eBay Affiliate Link: http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-1609574-10357516.
It doesn't cost you anything, but an extra click!

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Sam,

A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting
a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang
safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But
most of us had no idea herons even existed until we
put in our ponds.

And I have no problem with animals that you describe.
I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my
feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard.

I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge
bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his
visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What
a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish
seem to be up on the surface lazing around every
afternoon.

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? We put in
ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local
inhabitants,
and then we want to kill the inhabitants? This reminds me of the "bear
problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building
houses
and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing
their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear
problem.

Yes, I find it disturbing, as well. I like to encourage all forms of
wildlife, although I'm thankful my dog keeps the raccoons from coming in the
cat door. I have yet to put in the big water garden, and when I do, I'll
probably not put in anything the waterbirds from the lake would view as
food, so they can drop by and I won't feel torn to protect the fishies.

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Sam,

A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting
a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang
safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But
most of us had no idea herons even existed until we
put in our ponds.

And I have no problem with animals that you describe.
I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my
feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard.

I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge
bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his
visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What
a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish
seem to be up on the surface lazing around every
afternoon.

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing?

More the attitude: If it bothers us, we can/shoud kill it.
Yes, I know there are times when that is necessary, but
I'm guessing "convenience" or "protect my perfect
surburban lawn" is the reason a heckuva lot more
often than protect the crops that feed my family.

We put in
ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local
inhabitants,
and then we want to kill the inhabitants?

I would kill to get a crane or heron stop by! Of course,
I only have minnows and goldfish (and frogs and toads)
in my ponds, and they have places to hide (PVC pipe,
plastic crates, vegetation), so even if my entire stock
got eaten, it wouldn't be a tragedy.

This reminds me of the "bear
problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building
houses
and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing
their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear
problem.

Yep.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
Help IHeartMyPond.com, by doing all of your eBay shopping via our
eBay Affiliate Link: http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-1609574-10357516.
It doesn't cost you anything, but an extra click!

Gail

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Sam,

A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting
a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang
safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But
most of us had no idea herons even existed until we
put in our ponds.

And I have no problem with animals that you describe.
I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my
feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard.

I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge
bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his
visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What
a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish
seem to be up on the surface lazing around every
afternoon.

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing?

More the attitude: If it bothers us, we can/shoud kill it.
Yes, I know there are times when that is necessary, but
I'm guessing "convenience" or "protect my perfect
surburban lawn" is the reason a heckuva lot more
often than protect the crops that feed my family.

We put in
ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local
inhabitants,
and then we want to kill the inhabitants?

I would kill to get a crane or heron stop by! Of course,
I only have minnows and goldfish (and frogs and toads)
in my ponds, and they have places to hide (PVC pipe,
plastic crates, vegetation), so even if my entire stock
got eaten, it wouldn't be a tragedy.

I would feel bad, even for goldfish since they react to human presence,
should they become a snack. Do you think your fish are protected enough with
the hiding places you've provided?

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...
Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? We put in
ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local
inhabitants,
and then we want to kill the inhabitants? This reminds me of the "bear
problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building
houses
and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing
their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear
problem.
=================
Yes, it's disturbing. We had similar problems with farmers and new home
owners here in some rural areas. People will buy a new home (in
subdivisions) adjoining a farm, knowing it's a farm and will have animal
aromas - then complain to the County the "stench" is sickening them, there
are flies, the tractor wakes them at 5 AM, they have no quality if
life..... This just seems to be human nature.

Rather than harm the wildlife we netted the ponds and breeding pools. There
are 3 *OPEN* pools of goldfish culls and extra plants for the frogs, newts
and other critters native to our area.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
"To persevere in one's duty and
be silent, is the best answer to calumny."
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Always been a problem and seems to be getting worse, the clash of
wildlife and human population needs.

We lived in and amongst the bears when we lived in Northern Canada.
They'd walk down the main street and we'd take the alley way. Seemed to
be the prudent thing to do.

We had a dachshund who thought she was hot stuff, take no prisoners,
let me at that mailman, I'll rip him to shreds, type of dog.

Her nest was right beside the porch door. When the bears came up on the
porch to partake of the garbage smorgasbord she never uttered a single
bark, growl or woof. Her reputation as a Tough Dog took a hit after
that...

kathy :-)

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Always been a problem and seems to be getting worse, the clash of
wildlife and human population needs.

We lived in and amongst the bears when we lived in Northern Canada.
They'd walk down the main street and we'd take the alley way. Seemed to
be the prudent thing to do.

We had a dachshund who thought she was hot stuff, take no prisoners,
let me at that mailman, I'll rip him to shreds, type of dog.

Her nest was right beside the porch door. When the bears came up on the
porch to partake of the garbage smorgasbord she never uttered a single
bark, growl or woof. Her reputation as a Tough Dog took a hit after
that...

I might take a different view if there were bears about, so thankfully, a
friendly dog keeps most of the wildlife out of the house. Something does
root around in the yard at night for grubs and I suspect it's a possum.

"The wise dachshund considers the advantage of concealment."
-
Sun Shih Tzu