For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your bottom
drain? Originally I was going to sit my pump on a shelf to protect against
this, but now that I plan to have a bottom drain, I am concerned. I am
routing my water to a veggie filter that may or may not be attached to the
main pond via a stream. If it is, I am concerned with the stream getting
blocked and emptying my pond. I am seriously considering not having a stream
and routing the water back via pipes to prevent this.

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.

My bottom drain empties into a settling/veggie pond and is pumped from there
into a bio-filter where it falls back into the main pond. The pump intake
from the settling/veggie pond is above the bottom of the main pond so I
never risk emptying the main pond. Over this winter, I had a leak somewhere
in my underground plumbing and my water level did drop but when it got below
the intake of the pump, the pump just shut off.

"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your
bottom
drain? Originally I was going to sit my pump on a shelf to protect against
this, but now that I plan to have a bottom drain, I am concerned. I am
routing my water to a veggie filter that may or may not be attached to the
main pond via a stream. If it is, I am concerned with the stream getting
blocked and emptying my pond. I am seriously considering not having a
stream
and routing the water back via pipes to prevent this.

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
My bottom drain empties into a settling/veggie pond and is pumped from
there
into a bio-filter where it falls back into the main pond. The pump intake
from the settling/veggie pond is above the bottom of the main pond so I
never risk emptying the main pond. Over this winter, I had a leak
somewhere
in my underground plumbing and my water level did drop but when it got
below
the intake of the pump, the pump just shut off.

That never occurred to me. I have been thinking the whole time I would have
bottom drain to pump to VF. I guess I could have bottom drain to VF, to pump
back to main pond. Does that make sense? Pump FROM the VF to the main pond
where the BD is?

BV.

My bottom drain and surface skimmer are gravity fed into the VF and then
pumped from the VF into a bio-filter where it then falls back into the main
pond. The only problem I have, is my make-shift prefilter on my pump gets
clogged and needs to be cleaned about once a week. However, the prefilter
is necessary on the pump intake so that the pump doesn't get clogged which
is a much bigger job cleaning. Any suggestions for a good pump prefilter?


"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
"Dan" wrote in message
...
My bottom drain empties into a settling/veggie pond and is pumped from
there
into a bio-filter where it falls back into the main pond. The pump
intake
from the settling/veggie pond is above the bottom of the main pond so I
never risk emptying the main pond. Over this winter, I had a leak
somewhere
in my underground plumbing and my water level did drop but when it got
below
the intake of the pump, the pump just shut off.

That never occurred to me. I have been thinking the whole time I would
have
bottom drain to pump to VF. I guess I could have bottom drain to VF, to
pump
back to main pond. Does that make sense? Pump FROM the VF to the main pond
where the BD is?

BV.

Dan wrote:
My bottom drain and surface skimmer are gravity fed into the VF and then
pumped from the VF into a bio-filter where it then falls back into the main
pond. The only problem I have, is my make-shift prefilter on my pump gets
clogged and needs to be cleaned about once a week. However, the prefilter
is necessary on the pump intake so that the pump doesn't get clogged which
is a much bigger job cleaning. Any suggestions for a good pump prefilter?


Hi Dan,
I use a slotted planting basket filled with bioballs, put in
the pump and then put all into a meshed laundry basket (with
a slide closure). Then I lower the laundry basket into the
pond. It is easy to raise, just get a pole and hook the
rope closure. I rarely have to clean this filter. Others
have filled the basket with lava rocks, but I found them too
heavy.

--
Bonnie
NJ

Bonnie, thanks for your suggestion. I have an external pump that is
connected thru the side of my Veggie Filter by a 2 inch PVC pipe. I may be
able to run the pipe into a basket type set-up like you mention.

"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:
My bottom drain and surface skimmer are gravity fed into the VF and then
pumped from the VF into a bio-filter where it then falls back into the
main
pond. The only problem I have, is my make-shift prefilter on my pump
gets
clogged and needs to be cleaned about once a week. However, the
prefilter
is necessary on the pump intake so that the pump doesn't get clogged
which
is a much bigger job cleaning. Any suggestions for a good pump
prefilter?


Hi Dan,
I use a slotted planting basket filled with bioballs, put in
the pump and then put all into a meshed laundry basket (with
a slide closure). Then I lower the laundry basket into the
pond. It is easy to raise, just get a pole and hook the
rope closure. I rarely have to clean this filter. Others
have filled the basket with lava rocks, but I found them too
heavy.

--
Bonnie
NJ

If I was to do this, this will be my setup.

Pipe from Bottom Drain will have a backflow device in line, then to a pump
that empties into a biofilter that is elevated, then by gravity into my
veggie filter, then by gravity back into my pond.

Should the pump fail, the backflow device will stop the water from the
biofilter from going back into my pond thru the bottom drain. With this
setup if your pump fails then there will be no backflow into the pond.

The pipe breakage issue is a different problem that can be corrected with a
level switch similar to what you have in your fuel pump. Get this type of
switching device from your local plumbing supply store, connect the switch
to your pump. If the level goes below a predetermined level, then your pump
will shut off. (I will do some research into this myself soon and will
report back to the group)

Good luck, and keep your questions coming as I am learning a lot from the
answers you are getting.
--
_______________________________________
"Architecture is the ultimate erotic 'object'."
Bernard Tschumi, "Architecture & Transgression"

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
"Dan" wrote in message
...
My bottom drain empties into a settling/veggie pond and is pumped from
there
into a bio-filter where it falls back into the main pond. The pump intake
from the settling/veggie pond is above the bottom of the main pond so I
never risk emptying the main pond. Over this winter, I had a leak
somewhere
in my underground plumbing and my water level did drop but when it got
below
the intake of the pump, the pump just shut off.

"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself
against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your
bottom
drain? Originally I was going to sit my pump on a shelf to protect
against
this, but now that I plan to have a bottom drain, I am concerned. I am
routing my water to a veggie filter that may or may not be attached to
the
main pond via a stream. If it is, I am concerned with the stream getting
blocked and emptying my pond. I am seriously considering not having a
stream
and routing the water back via pipes to prevent this.

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.

Not an issue in my pond. The bottom drain empties into the side of a
55 gallon barrel and the pump sits in the third barrel.
If this is a concern you could put the pump in a bucket. Allow the
water to flow over the rim of the bucket and be picked up at the
bottom by the pump.

Regards,

Hal

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:28:01 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
wrote:

For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your bottom
drain?

Check with a good plumbing supply store for a product called spaflex.
It is a sturdy by flexiable hose that you can use between the rigid pipe
and the pump.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Bonnie, thanks for your suggestion. I have an external pump that is
connected thru the side of my Veggie Filter by a 2 inch PVC pipe. I may
be
able to run the pipe into a basket type set-up like you mention.

"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:
My bottom drain and surface skimmer are gravity fed into the VF and
then
pumped from the VF into a bio-filter where it then falls back into the
main
pond. The only problem I have, is my make-shift prefilter on my pump
gets
clogged and needs to be cleaned about once a week. However, the
prefilter
is necessary on the pump intake so that the pump doesn't get clogged
which
is a much bigger job cleaning. Any suggestions for a good pump
prefilter?


Hi Dan,
I use a slotted planting basket filled with bioballs, put in
the pump and then put all into a meshed laundry basket (with
a slide closure). Then I lower the laundry basket into the
pond. It is easy to raise, just get a pole and hook the
rope closure. I rarely have to clean this filter. Others
have filled the basket with lava rocks, but I found them too
heavy.

--
Bonnie
NJ

It is better to pump the water after it passes through the last filter.
Gravity feed all the filters and then pump the clean water back to
the ponds.

Howard
"Dan" wrote in message
...
My bottom drain and surface skimmer are gravity fed into the VF and then
pumped from the VF into a bio-filter where it then falls back into the
main
pond. The only problem I have, is my make-shift prefilter on my pump gets
clogged and needs to be cleaned about once a week. However, the prefilter
is necessary on the pump intake so that the pump doesn't get clogged which
is a much bigger job cleaning. Any suggestions for a good pump prefilter?


"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
"Dan" wrote in message
...
My bottom drain empties into a settling/veggie pond and is pumped from
there
into a bio-filter where it falls back into the main pond. The pump
intake
from the settling/veggie pond is above the bottom of the main pond so
I
never risk emptying the main pond. Over this winter, I had a leak
somewhere
in my underground plumbing and my water level did drop but when it got
below
the intake of the pump, the pump just shut off.

That never occurred to me. I have been thinking the whole time I would
have
bottom drain to pump to VF. I guess I could have bottom drain to VF, to
pump
back to main pond. Does that make sense? Pump FROM the VF to the main
pond
where the BD is?

BV.

"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
snip
Should the pump fail, the backflow device will stop the water from the
biofilter from going back into my pond thru the bottom drain. With this
setup if your pump fails then there will be no backflow into the pond.

The backflow valve is only needed if the VF is above the pond right? If they
are at the same level, they should equalize, correct?

The pipe breakage issue is a different problem that can be corrected with
a
level switch similar to what you have in your fuel pump. Get this type of
switching device from your local plumbing supply store, connect the switch
to your pump. If the level goes below a predetermined level, then your
pump
will shut off. (I will do some research into this myself soon and will
report back to the group)

I'd love to hear what you find out.

BV.

What happens when some pond water evaporates?
Is it correct that the level of the pond will be maintained at the rim of
the first vessel connected to the bottom drain until the level of the pump
vessel is at the level of the pump itself?
The water buffer to compensate evaporation (until external water addition)
is only the volume of the vessel containing the pump.
As this volume is not so huge, we run the risk the pump has no more water to
pump.

Regards,

Pierre.

"Hal" wrote in message
...
Not an issue in my pond. The bottom drain empties into the side of a
55 gallon barrel and the pump sits in the third barrel.
If this is a concern you could put the pump in a bucket. Allow the
water to flow over the rim of the bucket and be picked up at the
bottom by the pump.

Regards,

Hal

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:28:01 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
wrote:

For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself
against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your
bottom
drain?

You just make sure that the intake for the pump is below the lowest point
that you allow your pond water level to go.

"Pierre de Ponthiere" wrote in message
...
What happens when some pond water evaporates?
Is it correct that the level of the pond will be maintained at the rim of
the first vessel connected to the bottom drain until the level of the pump
vessel is at the level of the pump itself?
The water buffer to compensate evaporation (until external water addition)
is only the volume of the vessel containing the pump.
As this volume is not so huge, we run the risk the pump has no more water
to
pump.

Regards,

Pierre.

"Hal" wrote in message
...
Not an issue in my pond. The bottom drain empties into the side of a
55 gallon barrel and the pump sits in the third barrel.
If this is a concern you could put the pump in a bucket. Allow the
water to flow over the rim of the bucket and be picked up at the
bottom by the pump.

Regards,

Hal

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:28:01 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
wrote:

For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself
against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your
bottom
drain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:37:59 +0100, "Pierre de Ponthiere"
wrote:

What happens when some pond water evaporates?

It will evaporate and I top off the pond to the level I want it once a
week.
Is it correct that the level of the pond will be maintained at the rim of
the first vessel connected to the bottom drain until the level of the pump
vessel is at the level of the pump itself?

My priorities are fish then pump. I suggest putting the pump in a
bucket so the water will not flow into the bucket until the pond is
drained and fish die, but stop the pond depth at the top of the bucket
waterline. Waterline meaning a level plane (imaginary) from the top
of the bucket extending through the walls of the pond and across the
surface.
The water buffer to compensate evaporation (until external water addition)
is only the volume of the vessel containing the pump.
As this volume is not so huge, we run the risk the pump has no more water to
pump.

Not sure I understand, but try this. Lets say we dig a pond 2' deep
and use a 1' deep bucket weighted to the bottom of a 2' deep cavity on
the same plane as the pond, containing the pump. A gravity flow line
connects the two, bottom to bottom. The top of these bodies of
water, the pump cavity and the pond will also be on the same
waterline. That way water flows continually until the water level
drops below the rim of the bucket and the pump runs dry. If the pump
runs dry we can find a dead pump, but live fish in 1 foot of water
waiting to be rescued.

Regards,

Hal

Regards,

Pierre.

"Hal" wrote in message
.. .
Not an issue in my pond. The bottom drain empties into the side of a
55 gallon barrel and the pump sits in the third barrel.
If this is a concern you could put the pump in a bucket. Allow the
water to flow over the rim of the bucket and be picked up at the
bottom by the pump.

Regards,

Hal

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:28:01 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
wrote:

For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself
against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your
bottom
drain?

I agree completely with your explanations when the connection is "bottom to
bottom".
But a lot of filters like Clean Pond 12 described at
http://www.verhaertnv.be/pdf/8A.pdf have the rim of the first vessel 1 or 2
inches below the maximum level. (The second vessel is filled by overflow of
the first one thru a vertical slit visible beteween the the 2 vessels). It
results that the pond level has to be maintained constant which can be a
problem during vacations...

Regards,

Pierre.
"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:37:59 +0100, "Pierre de Ponthiere"
wrote:

What happens when some pond water evaporates?

It will evaporate and I top off the pond to the level I want it once a
week.
Is it correct that the level of the pond will be maintained at the rim of
the first vessel connected to the bottom drain until the level of the
pump
vessel is at the level of the pump itself?

My priorities are fish then pump. I suggest putting the pump in a
bucket so the water will not flow into the bucket until the pond is
drained and fish die, but stop the pond depth at the top of the bucket
waterline. Waterline meaning a level plane (imaginary) from the top
of the bucket extending through the walls of the pond and across the
surface.
The water buffer to compensate evaporation (until external water
addition)
is only the volume of the vessel containing the pump.
As this volume is not so huge, we run the risk the pump has no more water
to
pump.

Not sure I understand, but try this. Lets say we dig a pond 2' deep
and use a 1' deep bucket weighted to the bottom of a 2' deep cavity on
the same plane as the pond, containing the pump. A gravity flow line
connects the two, bottom to bottom. The top of these bodies of
water, the pump cavity and the pond will also be on the same
waterline. That way water flows continually until the water level
drops below the rim of the bucket and the pump runs dry. If the pump
runs dry we can find a dead pump, but live fish in 1 foot of water
waiting to be rescued.

Regards,

Hal

Regards,

Pierre.

"Hal" wrote in message
.. .
Not an issue in my pond. The bottom drain empties into the side of a
55 gallon barrel and the pump sits in the third barrel.
If this is a concern you could put the pump in a bucket. Allow the
water to flow over the rim of the bucket and be picked up at the
bottom by the pump.

Regards,

Hal

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:28:01 -0500, "BenignVanilla"
wrote:

For those of you with a bottom drain...how do you protect yourself
against
emptying your pond if there is a failure somewhere upstream from your
bottom
drain?