Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old 18-03-2003, 05:08 PM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

This year I bought 6 bareroot roses from Edmunds. I followed the planting
instructions to the letter for 3 of them. On 2 I did the same except for
mounding around the canes and on one, left it a bucket of water for a week
then just planted it. Of the three that got the mounding around the canes I
waited until I saw 2-4 new growth popping out before removing the mound.
There was alot of new growth under the mound, blanched from no sun. The
growth outside of the mound is doing wonderfully but the growth under the
mound has just died off and no new growth can be seen from those canes. Why
would this happen? The
2 roses that never got the mounding have alot of new growth and are very
healthy. The one that got left in the bucket of water for a week is doing
just fine also. Maybe mounding here in So. CA just doesn't need to be done,
I have no idea. Can anyone explain to me why the mounding roses new growth
has died off and is there anyway to get them jump started again to get new
growth?

Thanks to all for even reading this post.

Rick
In Chula Vista CA




  #2   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 04:56 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

Rick wrote:

This year I bought 6 bareroot roses from Edmunds. I followed the
planting instructions to the letter for 3 of them. On 2 I did the
same except for mounding around the canes and on one, left it a
bucket of water for a week then just planted it. Of the three that
got the mounding around the canes I waited until I saw 2-4 new growth
popping out before removing the mound. There was alot of new growth
under the mound, blanched from no sun. The growth outside of the
mound is doing wonderfully but the growth under the mound has just
died off and no new growth can be seen from those canes. Why would
this happen? The 2 roses that never got the mounding have alot of
new growth and are very healthy. The one that got left in the bucket
of water for a week is doing just fine also. Maybe mounding here in
So. CA just doesn't need to be done, I have no idea. Can anyone
explain to me why the mounding roses new growth has died off and is
there anyway to get them jump started again to get new growth?


Conventional wisdom is that you remove the compost that you mounded
gradually once you see 2 inches of growth at the tips of the exposed
canes. Then you don't remove the mounded compost all at once: you wash
off an inch or so each day for several days. Some of the
chlorophyl-deprived growth will die, but a lot of it will turn green
and continue growing.

Mounding is really important, so don't feel bad if that new growth
looks lousy. Maybe you got lucky with the roses you didn't mound, but
mounding is insurance in those years that the March winds blow from the
day you plant your new bareroot and continues for 3 weeks.

I suggest you resist the temptation to try to force growth with
fertilizer. Your bareroot has enough stored sugars to put out several
inches of new growth. Once you get a sense that it is growing
*actively* (and all I can say is you'll know it when you see it), then
you can apply a half-dilution application of fish emulsion or another
mild, not heavy-nitrogen fertilizer.

Maybe you had too many canes to begin with. Bareroots come with
instructions to cut back to a bud and some even suggest that you
reduce the number of canes. But maybe you got a dud. That does happen.
Keep watering regulary and if you need to, contact Edmunds for a
replacement.

Good luck. If you have 3 or 4 good canes, you don't really need to
worry if one or two don't leaf out.
  #3   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 05:08 AM
Allegra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth


"Rick" wrote
This year I bought 6 bareroot roses from Edmunds. I followed the planting
instructions to the letter for 3 of them. On 2 I did the same except for
mounding around the canes and on one, left it a bucket of water for a week
then just planted it. Of the three that got the mounding around the canes

I
waited until I saw 2-4 new growth popping out before removing the mound.
There was alot of new growth under the mound, blanched from no sun. The
growth outside of the mound is doing wonderfully but the growth under the
mound has just died off and no new growth can be seen from those canes.

Why
would this happen? The
2 roses that never got the mounding have alot of new growth and are very
healthy. The one that got left in the bucket of water for a week is doing
just fine also. Maybe mounding here in So. CA just doesn't need to be

done,
I have no idea. Can anyone explain to me why the mounding roses new

growth
has died off and is there anyway to get them jump started again to get new
growth?

Thanks to all for even reading this post.

Rick
In Chula Vista CA


Hello Rick,

I cannot tell you for certain why the new growth died,
but I have my suspicions. Roses are covered at the graft
in colder areas of the country to avoid cold damage to
the tissue where the graft has taken place. If that part
of the rose - you know, the bumpy little bulge between
the canes and the trunk of the rose - dies, your rose
reverts to the stock that was used to graft it. In the
west it is likely to be our good Dr. Huey.

In our side of the country not only isn't necessary to
cover the graft, but actually is better that you don't.
Your rose got the message from the light and the
temperature that it was time to break dormancy.
The warmth of the soil and the light that helps
to develop photosynthesis which indicates to the
plant that now is the time to spread those feeder
roots and get going, was short-circuited by the
soil on top of the bottom of the rose. It pushed out
in hopes of reaching the light that the upper part
was getting, and thus you got growth under the
soil. But it didn't develop the same tissue as the
leaves exposed to the light, the warmth and the
air that the rest of your rose did.

When it finally did, the connecting tissue was way
too thin to survive UV rays and its burning effect
plus the dehydration that comes from thin tissue
and lack of exposure.

Don't worry; your rose is not going to die. In a
couple of months she will perhaps comeback with
another batch of leaves and if you make sure
that continues to be well watered and fed, your
rose will be just fine.

Remember that there is no reason to cover the
graft here. You may plant your roses with the
graft at ground level or even a couple of inches
above. That will allow mulch to insulate the
roots as well during very hot weather.

What are you growing? Rule of this place is that
we tell, spill, account for, you name it, but we
name names. Hope this helps, and good luck

Allegra


  #4   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 09:32 AM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

Thank you Cass for the information. I've never planted bare root roses
before so this is all new to me. I maybe a
lot of things but I'm not a quiter and I won't let my roses quit either.
Next time ( and there will be one) I'll remember to
remove the mounding alittle at a time.

"Cass" wrote in message
...
Rick wrote:

This year I bought 6 bareroot roses from Edmunds. I followed the
planting instructions to the letter for 3 of them. On 2 I did the
same except for mounding around the canes and on one, left it a
bucket of water for a week then just planted it. Of the three that
got the mounding around the canes I waited until I saw 2-4 new growth
popping out before removing the mound. There was alot of new growth
under the mound, blanched from no sun. The growth outside of the
mound is doing wonderfully but the growth under the mound has just
died off and no new growth can be seen from those canes. Why would
this happen? The 2 roses that never got the mounding have alot of
new growth and are very healthy. The one that got left in the bucket
of water for a week is doing just fine also. Maybe mounding here in
So. CA just doesn't need to be done, I have no idea. Can anyone
explain to me why the mounding roses new growth has died off and is
there anyway to get them jump started again to get new growth?


Conventional wisdom is that you remove the compost that you mounded
gradually once you see 2 inches of growth at the tips of the exposed
canes. Then you don't remove the mounded compost all at once: you wash
off an inch or so each day for several days. Some of the
chlorophyl-deprived growth will die, but a lot of it will turn green
and continue growing.

Mounding is really important, so don't feel bad if that new growth
looks lousy. Maybe you got lucky with the roses you didn't mound, but
mounding is insurance in those years that the March winds blow from the
day you plant your new bareroot and continues for 3 weeks.

I suggest you resist the temptation to try to force growth with
fertilizer. Your bareroot has enough stored sugars to put out several
inches of new growth. Once you get a sense that it is growing
*actively* (and all I can say is you'll know it when you see it), then
you can apply a half-dilution application of fish emulsion or another
mild, not heavy-nitrogen fertilizer.

Maybe you had too many canes to begin with. Bareroots come with
instructions to cut back to a bud and some even suggest that you
reduce the number of canes. But maybe you got a dud. That does happen.
Keep watering regulary and if you need to, contact Edmunds for a
replacement.

Good luck. If you have 3 or 4 good canes, you don't really need to
worry if one or two don't leaf out.



  #5   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 10:44 AM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

Thanks Allegra, I have hope now. Well since you ask here's what is planted
and still to come:

In the ground: Bride's Dream
Climbing Pearly Gates
Fragrant Cloud
New Zealand
St. Patrick
Whisper

Waiting to arrive: Mellow Yellow
Aint She Sweet
One I can't remember the name I ordered ( getting
old )

Still to propagate: A fifty year old Red rose from my Mother's garden that
was given to them as a house
warming gift.

My wife and I bought this house a year ago and I'm re-doing the whole garden
to resemble the garden
that I grew up with. This is only the start. I've grown roses for a nunber
of years but never bare root.
Thanks again.

Rick

"Allegra" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Rick" wrote
This year I bought 6 bareroot roses from Edmunds. I followed the

planting
instructions to the letter for 3 of them. On 2 I did the same except

for
mounding around the canes and on one, left it a bucket of water for a

week
then just planted it. Of the three that got the mounding around the

canes
I
waited until I saw 2-4 new growth popping out before removing the mound.
There was alot of new growth under the mound, blanched from no sun. The
growth outside of the mound is doing wonderfully but the growth under

the
mound has just died off and no new growth can be seen from those canes.

Why
would this happen? The
2 roses that never got the mounding have alot of new growth and are very
healthy. The one that got left in the bucket of water for a week is

doing
just fine also. Maybe mounding here in So. CA just doesn't need to be

done,
I have no idea. Can anyone explain to me why the mounding roses new

growth
has died off and is there anyway to get them jump started again to get

new
growth?

Thanks to all for even reading this post.

Rick
In Chula Vista CA


Hello Rick,

I cannot tell you for certain why the new growth died,
but I have my suspicions. Roses are covered at the graft
in colder areas of the country to avoid cold damage to
the tissue where the graft has taken place. If that part
of the rose - you know, the bumpy little bulge between
the canes and the trunk of the rose - dies, your rose
reverts to the stock that was used to graft it. In the
west it is likely to be our good Dr. Huey.

In our side of the country not only isn't necessary to
cover the graft, but actually is better that you don't.
Your rose got the message from the light and the
temperature that it was time to break dormancy.
The warmth of the soil and the light that helps
to develop photosynthesis which indicates to the
plant that now is the time to spread those feeder
roots and get going, was short-circuited by the
soil on top of the bottom of the rose. It pushed out
in hopes of reaching the light that the upper part
was getting, and thus you got growth under the
soil. But it didn't develop the same tissue as the
leaves exposed to the light, the warmth and the
air that the rest of your rose did.

When it finally did, the connecting tissue was way
too thin to survive UV rays and its burning effect
plus the dehydration that comes from thin tissue
and lack of exposure.

Don't worry; your rose is not going to die. In a
couple of months she will perhaps comeback with
another batch of leaves and if you make sure
that continues to be well watered and fed, your
rose will be just fine.

Remember that there is no reason to cover the
graft here. You may plant your roses with the
graft at ground level or even a couple of inches
above. That will allow mulch to insulate the
roots as well during very hot weather.

What are you growing? Rule of this place is that
we tell, spill, account for, you name it, but we
name names. Hope this helps, and good luck

Allegra






  #6   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 04:20 PM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

Rick wrote:

Still to propagate: A fifty year old Red rose from my Mother's garden
that was given to them as a house warming gift.


Have you already tried softwood cuttings, or have I confused you with
someone else who is trying to propagate a red rose without success? Did
you try a hardwood cutting last winter? I took some rose prunings in
February and "stuck" them. It is very easy: use wood the size of a
pencil (which I wouldn't ordinarily prune, but some roses are
prolific). Cut a sufficient length to get 2 buds above ground, 2 buds
below ground. Using a sterile and very sharp knife, make 1/4 inch
scores on the opposite side of the two lower buds. Then "stick" your
cuttings in your fallow vegetable garden with 2 buds below the soil and
2 buds above. Some recommend using a broomstick to make the hole and
then fill the hole with sand. Some also use rooting hormone. Cover the
cutting with a clear plastic bottle that has the bottom cut out and the
screw-on top discarded to make a little greenhouse over the cutting.
If you're in a really cold part of the country, I don't know exactly
how you manage this in the winter or when you take the cuttings, but I
know someone to ask if you're interested. Where are you located and
what zone are you in?

--
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html
  #7   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 05:44 PM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

Hi Cass. I'm in Chula Vista CA, just south of San Diego, Zone 10.
I've never propagated before but I will succeed, it's very important
for me to make sure my brother and sisters get the rose from
my Mother's garden so we will really have something of hers when
she is gone. I'll teach my siblings the art of propagating so they too
can give a rose to there children when it's time. I will also be doing
a rose for my daughters. I found what may be the perfect green house
for propagating new roses. I found it at the Container Store in Fashion
Valley. It was made for keeping cat & dog food fresh. It looks like a
small narrow thrash can about 2.5 feet high and about 6 inches wide
and about 10-12 inches long with a top that seals and flips open.
Clear with a white top. I plan to cut a half circle in the top about 2
inches in dia. Then getting a fender washer and cut a wedge out
and screwing it over the half circle so I can slowly add fresh air
to the green house. It should work. I just checked on the new roses
and found them covered with aphids !!!! What can I use that will
be gentle on the new growth? Besides water.

Rick
Zone 10 Chula Vista, CA

"Cass" wrote in message
...
Rick wrote:

Still to propagate: A fifty year old Red rose from my Mother's garden
that was given to them as a house warming gift.


Have you already tried softwood cuttings, or have I confused you with
someone else who is trying to propagate a red rose without success? Did
you try a hardwood cutting last winter? I took some rose prunings in
February and "stuck" them. It is very easy: use wood the size of a
pencil (which I wouldn't ordinarily prune, but some roses are
prolific). Cut a sufficient length to get 2 buds above ground, 2 buds
below ground. Using a sterile and very sharp knife, make 1/4 inch
scores on the opposite side of the two lower buds. Then "stick" your
cuttings in your fallow vegetable garden with 2 buds below the soil and
2 buds above. Some recommend using a broomstick to make the hole and
then fill the hole with sand. Some also use rooting hormone. Cover the
cutting with a clear plastic bottle that has the bottom cut out and the
screw-on top discarded to make a little greenhouse over the cutting.
If you're in a really cold part of the country, I don't know exactly
how you manage this in the winter or when you take the cuttings, but I
know someone to ask if you're interested. Where are you located and
what zone are you in?

--
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html



  #8   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 08:32 PM
Allegra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hi Cass. I'm in Chula Vista CA, just south of San Diego, Zone 10.
I've never propagated before but I will succeed, it's very important
for me to make sure my brother and sisters get the rose from
my Mother's garden so we will really have something of hers when
she is gone. I'll teach my siblings the art of propagating so they too
can give a rose to there children when it's time. I will also be doing
a rose for my daughters. I found what may be the perfect green house
for propagating new roses. I found it at the Container Store in Fashion
Valley. It was made for keeping cat & dog food fresh. It looks like a
small narrow thrash can about 2.5 feet high and about 6 inches wide
and about 10-12 inches long with a top that seals and flips open.
Clear with a white top. I plan to cut a half circle in the top about 2
inches in dia. Then getting a fender washer and cut a wedge out
and screwing it over the half circle so I can slowly add fresh air
to the green house. It should work. I just checked on the new roses
and found them covered with aphids !!!! What can I use that will
be gentle on the new growth? Besides water.

Rick
Zone 10 Chula Vista, CA


Hello again Rick,

Allegra here. BH and I were looking at your idea to make a greenhouse
and it sounds great. Let us know how it works, we may want to copy you.
Right now I only use the "stick them in the ground" and the hormone in
the gallon pot system to propagate, both of which have worked remarkably
well for me. But this is Oregon, what doesn't drown will flourish!

Aphids are certainly a pain, and other than Safer soap and big, nasty
showers with the dial on jet I know of no way to get rid of them. In the
old days when the children were little "squish, squash the aphids" got
them a couple of dollars for "working in the yard" but never got rid of
the entire population. There is something I have never tried so I cannot
vouch for its effectiveness and that is to mix together 1 garlic bulb,
1 small onion, 1 t cayenne pepper, 1 quart water. Steep one hour and
add 1 T liquid hand soap. Store in the refrigerator. Spray with it and
even the deer seems to dislike the taste. As I said I haven't tried it but
it doesn't take much to strain this into a spray bottle and go after the
pest.

Do you know what is the name of your Mother's rose? If you do, it may
be easier to find out how difficult or hopefully easier it is to propagate
through some of the people here who may have tried to do that.

Allegra




  #9   Report Post  
Old 19-03-2003, 08:32 PM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying new growth

In article [email protected], Allegra
wrote:

"Rick" wrote in message
...
I just checked on the new roses
and found them covered with aphids !!!! What can I use that will
be gentle on the new growth? Besides water.


Hello again Rick,

Allegra here. BH and I were looking at your idea to make a greenhouse
and it sounds great. Let us know how it works, we may want to copy you.
Right now I only use the "stick them in the ground" and the hormone in
the gallon pot system to propagate, both of which have worked remarkably
well for me. But this is Oregon, what doesn't drown will flourish!

Aphids are certainly a pain, and other than Safer soap and big, nasty
showers with the dial on jet I know of no way to get rid of them. In the
old days when the children were little "squish, squash the aphids" got
them a couple of dollars for "working in the yard" but never got rid of
the entire population. There is something I have never tried so I cannot
vouch for its effectiveness and that is to mix together 1 garlic bulb,
1 small onion, 1 t cayenne pepper, 1 quart water. Steep one hour and
add 1 T liquid hand soap. Store in the refrigerator. Spray with it and
even the deer seems to dislike the taste. As I said I haven't tried it but
it doesn't take much to strain this into a spray bottle and go after the
pest.


What I hear is that the predatory critters that eat aphids lag a bit in
population, so they build up after you've gotten the major aphid bloom.
I know nothing besides washing them off, and I mean off, away, so the
little bugs can't get back up to the tender new growth.

Aphids don't like wind, so I don't have much of a problem here in the
coast.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pond growth and non-growth Phyllis and Jim[_2_] Ponds (moderated) 16 07-03-2008 07:48 PM
Why good plant growth= bad algae growth [email protected] Freshwater Aquaria Plants 3 22-02-2004 10:53 PM
Why good plant growth= bad algae growth [email protected] Freshwater Aquaria Plants 0 22-02-2004 03:38 AM
Why good plant growth= bad algae growth [email protected] Freshwater Aquaria Plants 0 22-02-2004 03:38 AM
Aphid remedy (was: Dying new growth) Daniel Hanna Roses 2 21-03-2003 08:08 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017