Hello Mike,

All right. I decided that you need trouble.
And I mean Trouble with a capital T.
I just got the new Classic Roses (The
Peter Beales Collection) catalogue and
indeed as they so aptly proclaim: a Treasury
of more than 1300 roses.

You must get this catalogue. It is by far the
best layout of any I have (Beloved accuses
me of having every one that has ever been printed
and that is perhaps a slight exaggeration but that
happens to be "a guy sort of thing" mixture of
reproach and admiration or something like that)
Anyway, trust me about this one, it gives the
roses by color and by size, and the photos are
gorgeous.

Thought of you as soon as I hit the red roses
pages. Start saving. I decided there are a couple
I can probably get this coming fall after the ones
who refuse to perform - if any - are shown the door.
If they all perform, I will move the fence a couple
of feet in the middle of the night.

www.classicroses.co.uk

Just in case you have insomnia one of these nights ;)

Allegra
(who cannot bear to get in trouble by herself)

PS: Unique Too, you stay out of this BG

On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, "Allegra" wrote:
Hello Mike,

All right. I decided that you need trouble.
And I mean Trouble with a capital T.
I just got the new Classic Roses (The
Peter Beales Collection) catalogue and
indeed as they so aptly proclaim: a Treasury
of more than 1300 roses.

You must get this catalogue. It is by far the
best layout of any I have (Beloved accuses
me of having every one that has ever been printed
and that is perhaps a slight exaggeration but that
happens to be "a guy sort of thing" mixture of
reproach and admiration or something like that)
Anyway, trust me about this one, it gives the
roses by color and by size, and the photos are
gorgeous.

Thought of you as soon as I hit the red roses
pages. Start saving. I decided there are a couple
I can probably get this coming fall after the ones
who refuse to perform - if any - are shown the door.
If they all perform, I will move the fence a couple
of feet in the middle of the night.

www.classicroses.co.uk

Just in case you have insomnia one of these nights ;)

Allegra
(who cannot bear to get in trouble by herself)

PS: Unique Too, you stay out of this BG

Hi Allegra,

Hey! Why do I need trouble? I had to call ditech just to procure this
season's roses! Just what are you trying to accomplish here, missy?

I'll order the catalogue, of course. Thanks for the heads up!

Is insomnia common among rosarians? I've noticed on more than a few
occasions that more posts show up after midnight than during the day. I
mean, yeah *just in case* g I like to poke around ARE's website, too.
Nice layout and some good stuff. One thing I noticed on Peter Beale's (yes,
I already peeked before responding) - what the heck is a pimpinellifolia??
I've never heard of that before.

Next time BH rolls his eyes over your rose obsession, ask him if you can
have too many tools. Roses/ tools. All is one and one is all. Goo goo ga
joob.

Mike
z8TX

"Allegra" writes:

PS: Unique Too, you stay out of this BG

Hey, I didn't comment when you offered to try to help identify CJs plant by
growing one, did I? So why should I comment on this one? G

"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
"Allegra" writes:

PS: Unique Too, you stay out of this BG

Hey, I didn't comment when you offered to try to help identify CJs plant
by
growing one, did I? So why should I comment on this one? G

Because the other one is a study rose and those don't count. But Peter's
catalogue is the biggest candy bowl I have yet to get my hands on.
It is difficult to restrain myself as I told Mike from moving the fence in
the middle of the night. To make matters even worse tonight BH comes
up into my study with Leonard's new catalogue in hand. Now tell me,
is that risky or what? Don't answer.

Allegra

"Mike" greeted Allegra, thus


Hey! Why do I need trouble? I had to call ditech just to procure this
season's roses! Just what are you trying to accomplish here, missy?

I'll order the catalogue, of course. Thanks for the heads up!

Is insomnia common among rosarians? I've noticed on more than a few
occasions that more posts show up after midnight than during the day. I
mean, yeah *just in case* g I like to poke around ARE's website, too.
Nice layout and some good stuff. One thing I noticed on Peter Beale's
(yes,
I already peeked before responding) - what the heck is a pimpinellifolia??
I've never heard of that before.

Next time BH rolls his eyes over your rose obsession, ask him if you can
have too many tools. Roses/ tools. All is one and one is all. Goo goo ga
joob.

Mike
z8TX
Hello Mike,


Pimpinellifolias! Lets start by saying that until recently they were known
as R. spinosissima which in a literary translation from Latin it means rose
of many prickles (or more accurately "spinas" can be properly translated
as thorns) rose of many thorns.

They originated in Europe, although it has always been a matter of
discussion since most members of this family seem to have been found in the
less fertile areas of Scotland and Ireland and I remember many years ago
visiting my great-grandmother's house in Scotland and marveling at the
abundance of "wild roses" growing apparently impervious to the conditions
surrounding them. Strong and beautiful in their own right, mostly single and
a very few double.

From my notes I can quote "Over by the retaining wall there are at least
three small bushes, about 3 or 4 feet covered with single white roses, the
ones getting less sun appear to have a rosy tint to them, while the ones in
full sun are pure white. When I asked Lettie about their origin and their
name she dismissed them as unimportant. " That? the Briar? A weed" I thought
it was just another spinosissima because of the stems but I guess Peter has
classified them as Pimpinellifolias and if anyone knows, he is It. So forget
about spinosissimas here." Lettie says it is a problem to keep them "within
bounds". Apparently it suckers all over the place, including inside the
stable. I don' t think it would do well in Portland since the clay in there
would not do the trick. Pity."

Of course these roses have been used over the years by many growers because
the gene pool is really gorgeous. Stanwell Perpetual is a cross between R.
damascena and R. pimpinellifolia for example. The leaves are -I guess you
could describe them as green-gray, and I had one that sent me to despair a
couple of times before I found out that the purplish spots in the foliage
was not some kind of virus or fungus, but some kind of spontaneous
development for which I have yet to find an answer; Presently I do not grow
it, although it has been an old favorite of mine for many years. I love the
scent in this rose by the way. I think Cass can say more about her.

I grew Single Cherry for a couple of years; it never got up to 3 feet in
either direction. But it was like a red salute in the morning. It was bushy
and well rounded with black heps in the fall that for some reason I remember
noting in my journal the birds didn't seem to care for. The leaves had a
nearly creamy edge to them, and I don't remember any fragrance. One that I
would like to grow again is Mrs. Colville. Peter says that he thinks it is a
cross between R. pimpinellifolia and R. pendulina but I am not all that well
educated about R. pendulina to agree or disagree with this. It has fewer
thorns all right than the usual pimpinellifolias and the stamens are
gorgeous with a marked white eye that makes the red stand out even more.

Now, this I am sure is wayyyyyyyyyyy more than what you ever wanted to know
about the species. They love sandy soil, all spinosissimas seem to do, so
for me to grow any here is going to be another march down the heartbreak
highway if I try again. But knowing the Basque ancestry in my mother's side
of the family, guess what? ;) By the way, there are several double forms of
pimpinellifolias and I quote:

"Several exist with yellow in their make-up obviously derived from R.
foetida. The most important are the following:
R.x harisonii or " Harrison's Yellow (Yellow Rose of Texas) very double, USA
1846
William's Double Yellow - semi-double UK 1828

I find both of these rather coarser in growth than the other colours and
prefer an old, double form, which I call, simply - 'Old Yellow Scotch'. This
is more compact in growth, pleasingly scented and of very ancient origin."

About insomnia, in my case it is not insomnia, but quiet. During the day I
have so many things under foot that even trying to concentrate about
something other than what I am doing is impossible, as impossible some times
as to concentrate in what I am doing with one and one hundred interruptions.
So, at night, when the phones are quiet, and the world is asleep I usually
have an hour or so where I keep in touch with the rest of the obsessed and
find out who is growing what and how is it doing. If I can bring something I
think of value to the rest I gladly share what I know, and mostly I learn
from others just as well.

Now get thee to the public library and borrow Peter Beales Classic Roses. It
is the best source of legitimate and scholarly definition of roses you can
find to date. Yes, I am an ardent fan of the man. He holds a special place
in my heart for many reasons but his love for the rose is the one that has
seduced me for many years. There is not a greedy commercial gram in his
heart when it comes to roses and for that I admire him even more. But it is
his scholarly and yet simple approach to educate the world about this often
misunderstood wonder we all strive to grow that makes me admire him so much.
I have learned much from his books, his videos and from his lectures. But I
have learned even more from his simple romancing of the roses that has kept
me after almost now 33 years of growing roses still intrigued and fascinated
by them.

Say good night Mike, ;)

Allegra

PS: Actually I am the one who has to keep BH from the catalogues.
No greater enabler the world has ever known! I guess he complains when I get
to one or another before he does. I would have not thought of buying not
one but two Tipsy Imperial Concubines. Guess who?

SNIP

Hi Allegra,

I hope you don't mind that I snipped. I thought you might do without the
scrolling.

I love the information regarding pimpinellifolias! That's exactly why I'm
here. To learn what I don't (think I) know. I was quite pleased to read
about your personal experiences with these roses. I hope you'll continue to
allow me to pick your brain in the future. I'm sure you can save me a lot
of headaches and heartaches.

Of course, I did completely ignore you regarding Mermaid! I just love that
rose for some reason and I had to have it. At least it won't be your fault
if she strangles my oak trees. I guarantee you that I won't let that
happen, though. Those trees are hundreds of years old. I'll whack her to
the ground if I suspect she has arbicidal intent. I think they're too huge
for that to happen, even for Mermaid. I can see the mature picture in my
mind's eye and I'm confident it will be quite dramatic and beautiful.

I have a tendency to be a night owl. I don't think you can call it insomnia
if you easily fall asleep when you do crawl into bed. As long as the sun's
not coming up, you're just being all chic and european and stuff. That's
what it is. Worldy sophistication, not insomnia. Actually, I'm pretty tired
right now. I finished planting the rest of my wildflower seeds today. Of
course, it stormed late in the afternoon. I'll just have to be surprised
when they pop up all over the lawn. My Dad called and asked me to come over
and clean out his gutters. I was on his roof when the deluge began. I
slipped coming off the ladder and gave my spine a good jolt trying to grab
onto the ladder as I fell. I'm so sore right now. I know I'm going to be a
shambling mess tomorrow morning.

Oh jeez, that reminds me that it's trash night. I better shut up now and
get it together so I can go to bed. So I shall take your advice and say
Good night, Mike.

Good night!

Mike
z8TX

"Mike" casually told us that
..
Of course, it stormed late in the afternoon. I'll just have to be
surprised
when they pop up all over the lawn. My Dad called and asked me to come
over
and clean out his gutters. I was on his roof when the deluge began. I
slipped coming off the ladder and gave my spine a good jolt trying to grab
onto the ladder as I fell. I'm so sore right now. I know I'm going to be a
shambling mess tomorrow morning.

Oh jeez, that reminds me that it's trash night. I better shut up now and
get it together so I can go to bed. So I shall take your advice and say
Good night, Mike.

Good night!

Goodness me! are you all right? My BH gasped when he read about your
fall, and I couldn't believe you would go up a ladder with a storm brewing.
What is it with you guys? Is it something in the male DNA that still alive
and well from the hunting and gathering days that makes a man believe
that neither rain, nor snow, nor lightning is going to touch them when they
are on the roof? I swear I have heard more stories like this from friends
than them slipping on the soap in the bathtub! I hope you are fine and
what your father needs is rain gutter guards. There are some great ones
here in Oregon and we are having ours installed this summer in this house.

We had them in the old house and they were wonderful, never had to
deal with anything but water. And since our house is three story high I
don't want BH to go up any ladder, because like you he believes that
the hunting and gathering days may be just around the corner and one
must keep those nice skills like climbing up a mountain while raining,
in working order. OK, no more lecturing. Back to roses.

Of course you can pick my brains, that is why they are there for.
I pick everyone else's brain when I try to find out something so it
would be nothing if not fair play to offer the same. But fair warning,
when it comes to roses all the experience in the world seems to
apply to where you are planted, which presumes it is also where
your roses are. And where you bought your roses. I know, I know
but I have yet to find a boxed rose that responds the same as an
own root and that shows gratitude for all the lavished attention
and devotion. The poor things mostly put out for a season or two
and they are toast after that. In my grandmother's house in Provence
some of the roses were there since the early 1800s and I took cuts
with me before they sold the place in the early 80s. Betcha they
didn't come in any boxes.

I hope you are not in too much pain. I am off in a business trip until
next week, so don't plant anything until I get back ;) and about Mermaid,
she of the golden talons, just pray that you are never within her reach.
Experience speaking here. Stay well and I hope your roses come to
bloom before you know it.

Allegra

Allegra mused..

What is it with you guys? Is it something in the male DNA that, still alive
and well from the hunting and gathering days, makes a man believe
that neither rain, nor snow, nor lightning is going to touch them when they
are on the roof?

There's probably a little truth in that statement. g But mostly it's the
DNA code that tells you that you can't say no to Dad. Also, if I hadn't
have gone over there the moment he asked, he would've climbed up on the
roof to do it himself. I can't have that.

Of course you can pick my brains, that is why they are there for.
I pick everyone else's brain when I try to find out something so it
would be nothing if not fair play to offer the same. But fair warning,
when it comes to roses all the experience in the world seems to
apply to where you are planted, which presumes it is also where
your roses are. And where you bought your roses.

Don't sell your experience short, though. There's a lot of good information
gained from experience that applies no matter what the variables. Good
vendor/ bad vendor. Advice on soil, pruning, taking cuttings, etc. Which
roses are easy to grow and which roses are pouty little divas. Opinions of
specific roses from those that have already grown them are way more
valuable than catalogue copy. A good example of this is fragrance. I've
never read "fragrance can only be detected at dawn for two weeks in
mid-Spring by bloodhounds trained for such purposes" in a catalogue.
Marketing types translate that to "fragrance is mild, but pleasant."

..I have yet to find a boxed rose that responds the same as an
own root and that shows gratitude for all the lavished attention
and devotion. The poor things mostly put out for a season or two
and they are toast after that.

I have bought only own root for the last couple of years and I agree with
your asessment completely. My own roots are much healthier than the grafts
I have purchased. They look a little small to begin with, but like you
said, they respond so well once they're in the ground.

I hope you are not in too much pain.

More annoying than painful. I am sore and my back is nagging at me, but
there's no need for a morphine drip just yet.

I am off in a business trip until next week, so don't plant anything until
I get back ;)

Happy trails to you and be safe!

I don't have any *plans* to plant anything...

..and about Mermaid, she of the golden talons, just pray that you are
never within her reach.
Experience speaking here.

She would never hurt me. I love her!

I hear she will eat the clothes off your back if you stray too close, but I
don't really care about the clothing I wear while working in the yard. I'll
act like I do when I'm around her, though just so she doesn't start
thinking that's acceptable behaviour.

Good luck on your business trip. I'll guess we'll get by while you're gone.
Give us a post when you get back. This work thing really cuts into rose
time, you know?

Take care,

Mike
z8TX