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Old 31-03-2003, 01:20 AM
torgo
 
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Shiva - I just brought my Kentucky Derby and Double Delight in for
the night (we were in the high 70s yesterday but will dip into the
20s tonight with strong winds) when it hit me that DD might be just
the ticket to replace Mr. L. in a red and white bed. (Red AND white
AND seriously fragrant, all in one bush.)

Three others on my immediate shopping list might fit the bill as well-

Liebeszauber - red - first intro'd in 1959, apparently went out of
production and was reintroduced in 1990. Beats me if they're the same
identical rose, two completely different roses, or an improved version
of an original. Weeks featured it this year, so it ought to be
readily available from garden shops fairly close by.
http://www.rose-roses.com/rosepages/...ebezauber.html
http://www.weeksroses.com/liebeszauber.htm

Red Planet - red - often used as parent for hybridizing other
roses. I haven't called to confirm availablility, but from the web
site it sounds like Ashdown has a few available in 3-gal size.
http://www.rose-roses.com/rosepages/...RedPlanet.html

Snowbird - white - presumably very fragrant. I don't have any pure
whites at all yet, and since I haven't found Cyril Fletcher close by,
Snowbird will be my first. Ashdown has it in 3-gal containers..


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Old 31-03-2003, 06:56 PM
Shiva
 
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torgo wrote:

Shiva - I just brought my Kentucky Derby and Double Delight in for
the night (we were in the high 70s yesterday but will dip into the
20s tonight with strong winds) when it hit me that DD might be just
the ticket to replace Mr. L. in a red and white bed. (Red AND white
AND seriously fragrant, all in one bush.)


You know what--I think you have something here. I have avoided this rose
because photos do not, for some reason, appeal. But--since I love
fragrance, and I love its form (I grow Granada, which is in its family and
does have the same form and substance) NOW is the time to get it. Perfect
for the red and white bed. Tell me, is the white part more white or cream
in full sun? There is a difference--perhaps there is more red when it is
in full sun? This rose will be in a prime location, sun all day. Thanks
for your suggestion--perfect!





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Old 31-03-2003, 07:44 PM
torgo
 
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On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:43:31 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

Tell me, is the white part more white or cream
in full sun? There is a difference--perhaps there is more red when it is
in full sun?



I was surprised to see the bloom on mine when I bought it - the
pictures really don't represent the early stages of the bloom at all.
(I bought it in Florida a few weeks ago with one bloom already open.
A second opened while I was still there. Two more have opened since
I've been home, and there's still one more bud.)

When the bloom first opens, it's mostly white, with just a reddish
tinge around the edges. There is some cream in the center, but the
impression I get is more of a shadow effect rather than a difference
in color. The outer red ring takes over more and more as the bloom
ages. The first two blooms on mine lasted over a week when they were
finally knocked off by a severe rainstorm.

The only downside I'd see is having it so close to Scentimental - the
rings and stripes might clash, giving a polka-dots-with-plaid effect.



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Old 31-03-2003, 10:20 PM
Unique Too
 
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Double Delight
Tell me, is the white part more white or cream
in full sun? There is a difference--perhaps there is more red when it is
in full sun? This rose will be in a prime location, sun all day.


My buds are cream almost yellow with dark pink edges in full sun. The creamy
yellow fades closer to white as the bloom opens and the pink edge gets redder
and wider. At certain times of the year the plant is partly shaded and the
buds are pretty close to pure white.
Here an open flower and a bud can actually clash when put in a vase together.
I know I just did that last week. This is a very changing rose, rarely are
two blooms the same color at the same time.
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Old 01-04-2003, 06:32 PM
Shiva
 
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torgo wrote:


I was surprised to see the bloom on mine when I bought it - the
pictures really don't represent the early stages of the bloom at all.
[...]
When the bloom first opens, it's mostly white, with just a reddish
tinge around the edges. There is some cream in the center, but the
impression I get is more of a shadow effect rather than a difference
in color. The outer red ring takes over more and more as the bloom
ages. The first two blooms on mine lasted over a week when they were
finally knocked off by a severe rainstorm.


This sounds really nice. I also read Julie (Unique Too)'s post, and this
surprises me, as she is also in Florida and I thought most variations like
this had to do with climate. What part of FL are you in?


The only downside I'd see is having it so close to Scentimental - the
rings and stripes might clash, giving a polka-dots-with-plaid effect.


Hee! Good. I like a lively rose bed. At least there is a Full Sail in
between the two to buffer the colors a bit.





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Old 01-04-2003, 06:32 PM
Shiva
 
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Unique Too wrote:

My buds are cream almost yellow with dark pink edges in full sun. The

creamy yellow fades closer to white as the bloom opens and the pink edge
gets redder and wider. At certain times of the year the plant is partly
shaded and the buds are pretty close to pure white.

This still sounds gorgeous. I want to know where you got your DD, where
torgo got his, and how different the respective parts of FL where you each
live may be.



Here an open flower and a bud can actually clash when put in a vase
together. I know I just did that last week. This is a very changing
rose, rarely are two blooms the same color at the same time.


I cannot imagine I might want this rose for the vase--although if the
fragrance is that nice I might. In any case I love the ones that are
changable. True to life.


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Old 01-04-2003, 07:56 PM
Unique Too
 
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"Shiva" writes:

This still sounds gorgeous. I want to know where you got your DD, where
torgo got his, and how different the respective parts of FL where you each
live may be.

I bougth mine from Giles when they were still open. DH happened to see a
similar rose in a nearby garden and asked why I couldn't buy "that kind,"
instead of the OGRs I usually came home with. So on my next visit, I bought
"him" a DD and myself 5 others. DD has come to known as "his" rose. Good
thing too, or I'd have taken it out. Really I don't like it all, it's an ugly
plant with huge leaves that blackspot even with spraying and IMO stinks!
Sounds just like your kind of rose. g
Hum, I missed that Torgo was in Florida. I usually catch things like that. So
I'm glad you asked the question, I want to know the answer as well. I thought
you knew, I'm near Orlando.



Here an open flower and a bud can actually clash when put in a vase
together. I know I just did that last week. This is a very changing
rose, rarely are two blooms the same color at the same time.


I cannot imagine I might want this rose for the vase--although if the
fragrance is that nice I might. In any case I love the ones that are
changable. True to life.


You know, I really like Mrs. Dudley Cross because she changes to much, but this
one just doesn't do anything for me.

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Old 01-04-2003, 08:56 PM
Susan H. Simko
 
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Shiva wrote:

This still sounds gorgeous. I want to know where you got your DD, where
torgo got his, and how different the respective parts of FL where you each
live may be.


Once mine starts budding and blooming, I'll let you know about it, that
is if you want me to. *smile* My DD is in full sun all day long.
She's been in the ground about three weeks now and is throwing basal
left and right off of her six canes. (I got her from J&P.)

Susan
s h simko at duke dot edu

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Old 01-04-2003, 10:20 PM
torgo
 
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On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:11:25 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

This sounds really nice. I also read Julie (Unique Too)'s post, and this
surprises me, as she is also in Florida and I thought most variations like
this had to do with climate. What part of FL are you in?


I'm in Atlanta, GA. I was in Florida on business a few weeks ago,
and drove so that I could hit some nurseries while I was there.

The Double Delight was grown by Weeks and purchased in a 3-gal
container from a nursery in Rockledge, FL. One bloom had already
opened, and a second opened while I had the plant in my hotel room.

I also picked up one of my two Kentucky Derbys on that trip, from a
nursery just off of I-95, and a Heritage at a nursery in St.
Augustine. The first Derby bloom is now open. Absolutely gorgeous,
classic red bloom on a nice bushy plant, but alas only a mild
fragrance. Bummer.

Next rose buying trip = Ashdown...


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Old 02-04-2003, 01:08 AM
Shiva
 
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Susan H. Simko wrote:

Once mine starts budding and blooming, I'll let you know about it, that
is if you want me to. *smile*


Of course I want to see yours! Especially since you are just a few miles
from me!



My DD is in full sun all day long.
She's been in the ground about three weeks now and is throwing basal
left and right off of her six canes. (I got her from J&P.)


I love J&P roses. Mine will likely be a potted J&P that I will buy locally
later in the season.



Susan
s h simko at duke dot edu





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Old 02-04-2003, 02:20 AM
Scopata Fuori
 
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Double Delight has the most delightful lemon fragrance, here in 7b, anyway.
I have two, and neither have the almost red color the photos seem to
indicate. One is a dark pink, not red, and the other is a moderate pink, on
the outer edges. Yet the ones a member of the local rose society brings to
meetings are wonderful...a fairly clear red with white inside, high centered
and drop dead gorgeous. Neither of mine are spectacular. I hope this year
they'll improve.




Scopata Fuori


"It isn't dead unless it's MAY and it's still dead."




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Old 03-04-2003, 01:32 AM
Shiva
 
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On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:17:21 -0500, "Scopata Fuori"
wrote:



Double Delight has the most delightful lemon fragrance, here in 7b, anyway.


That is my zone too! One more vote for DD!



I have two, and neither have the almost red color the photos seem to
indicate. One is a dark pink, not red, and the other is a moderate pink, on
the outer edges. Yet the ones a member of the local rose society brings to
meetings are wonderful...a fairly clear red with white inside, high centered
and drop dead gorgeous. Neither of mine are spectacular. I hope this year
they'll improve.



How interesting that you have seen blooms from three different plants
that each look different. Hmmm. I don't really want pink in my red and
white bed. Maybe I'll take a good look at the potted DDs while they
are in bloom before I buy one.





Scopata Fuori


"It isn't dead unless it's MAY and it's still dead."





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Old 03-04-2003, 06:44 PM
Shiva
 
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torgo wrote:


I'm in Atlanta, GA. I was in Florida on business a few weeks ago,
and drove so that I could hit some nurseries while I was there.


Aha! Sorry. I must have missed the first part and made assumptions based
on your rose shopping. I have family in Atlanta--it's a fun city.

The Double Delight was grown by Weeks and purchased in a 3-gal
container from a nursery in Rockledge, FL. One bloom had already
opened, and a second opened while I had the plant in my hotel room.


I have a bunch of Weeks roses, mostly because we see them and J&P more
than any other kind in potted roses, and I had a couple of years where I
bought nothing but potted. This is the first year I have ever seen Weeks
bare roots, and I am favorably impressed. Long, gorgeous roots and tender
green canes! Very nice. Just watered them, and I see little red leaf buds
already.


I also picked up one of my two Kentucky Derbys on that trip, from a
nursery just off of I-95, and a Heritage at a nursery in St.
Augustine.


I really like this style of business traveling. Do you plan your route per
where the rose stops are? G If so, you are a goner.


The first Derby bloom is now open. Absolutely gorgeous,
classic red bloom on a nice bushy plant, but alas only a mild
fragrance. Bummer.


It is, but give it some time. It may be worth growing anyway. I have few
roses that have no scent--but the ones I have are terrific. In trying to
think of what I have, it seems only Tineke and Tropical Sunset are left--
and a worn-out old cankered Touch of Class that is in a pot because I
don't have the heart to off it. Sentimental reasons.


Next rose buying trip = Ashdown...


Paul Zimmerman is a class act. I buy from him every year. Your grafted
roses will probably be on fortuniata [sp?] root stock, which is really
different looking, if you get bare roots. There are lots more roots and
they are very hard and woody looking.


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Old 03-04-2003, 10:44 PM
torgo
 
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On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:33:23 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

I really like this style of business traveling. Do you plan your route per
where the rose stops are? G If so, you are a goner.


Yep - I'm toast. When I go to central Florida, I have too much
work-related material to fit in a single carry-on bag. So if I fly, I
have to check in at the ticket counter first, which can take two hours
all by itself at the Atlanta airport. Driving to the airport, parking
(the nearest available parking space is in Greenville, SC) and walking
to the terminal, checking my bags, going through security (last time
even the snap on my jeans was enough to set off the metal detectors),
etc, etc, takes longer than simply driving.

So I drive. And this time I hit the web site for Nelson's Florida
Roses and got addresses for a bunch of retailers that carry their
roses. I hit five nurseries and bought stuff at three of them. A
couple of them were pretty good - I'll be going back to those when I
go back to that part of Florida in late summer.


The first Derby bloom is now open. Absolutely gorgeous,
classic red bloom on a nice bushy plant, but alas only a mild
fragrance. Bummer.


It is, but give it some time. It may be worth growing anyway. I have few
roses that have no scent--but the ones I have are terrific. In trying to
think of what I have, it seems only Tineke and Tropical Sunset are left--
and a worn-out old cankered Touch of Class that is in a pot because I
don't have the heart to off it. Sentimental reasons.


Oh, the Kentucky Derby is certainly worth growing. I can see that
much already. And the fragrance is quite pleasant. It's just that
you have to bury your face in it to smell it.

I took a few pics of its first bloom. Now I'll just have to figure
out how to get the pics on the web...


Paul Zimmerman is a class act. I buy from him every year. Your grafted
roses will probably be on fortuniata [sp?] root stock, which is really
different looking, if you get bare roots. There are lots more roots and
they are very hard and woody looking.


Yep, he and Pat at Roses Unlimited are both terrific. I plan on
making at least two trips up there this year. As soon as I finish
preparing the new beds, I'm picking up Snowbird, Red Planet, and
Coquette des Blanches from Ashdown at the very least. And if Pat has
any Milestone or Mirandy left, I'll be raiding Roses Unlimited on the
way home !

One rose I planned to get at Ashdown was "Darlow's Enigma", but it has
vanished from the web site. I'll have to ask Paul what happened to
that one. It sounded great for partial shade, and I was thinking
about getting a carload of them around September to border the
azaleas.

It looks like he'll have Double Delight available soon, so if you make
the trip, you can see it in bloom. (And if it doesn't fit the bill,
Red Planet will be right there as a fragrant red alternative.)

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Old 03-04-2003, 10:56 PM
Shiva
 
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torgo wrote, among other things to be addressed after dinner:


Oh, the Kentucky Derby is certainly worth growing. I can see that
much already. And the fragrance is quite pleasant. It's just that
you have to bury your face in it to smell it.

I took a few pics of its first bloom. Now I'll just have to figure
out how to get the pics on the web...


If you send me the photos at , I will post them for you.
Cotse lets me have some web space, so that I can upload photos and then
post them as a URL to Usenet. I would be happy to help, and this way I can
see what KD looks like!



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