Hi all!!

Remember me? Well, after carefully planning my roses and garden,
getting my wonderful husband to give me 12 Almighty Rose Holes in clay
soil (2 more to go...), I'm ready to start my first rose garden! I now
am the happy owner of 3 roses (11 to go!) (Jeanne Lajoie, Carefree
Beauty, and Princess Marianna - wow she's got scary prickles!!).

Some questions:

* How far down to I plant the bud union on a grafted rose in MD? I've
read that the wisdom on this varies by location. Any experienced
Marylander's with advice?? What about an Own root bareroot rose (of
which I plan to order 3 which I can't find potted locally. They are
William Baffin, Belinda's Dream, and Hawkeye Belle)? Does the location
of the bud union planting differ if they are bareroot roses?

* I saw another poster post about the continued threat of cold
weather. I take it I can plant the babies, and then cover them for
protection should we get temps 28 degrees, which we could still get.

* I plan to alternate fertilizing with something like Osmocote (or
whatever, I'm sure I've got that name wrong), and also alfalfa meal. I
thought I'd do the alfalfa meal first. Do I do this when I plant them?
When they leaf out? Not at all now because they are babies? In June?
In late summer? I thought I read somewhere that I should not fertilize
the babies, but I don't know if that was "until they leaf out" or "until
much later."

* Despite massively amending the holes, raising the beds a little, and
preparing the beds in the fall, and heavily mulching, I am still
concerned about the drainage. We did a half-baked drainage test because
I was stressed out about this. We had about 1.75 - 2 inches of rain on
a Thursday - so it was WET. No standing water in the beds, but very
wet. We dug 2 1-gallon holes on 2 sides of the deck, in designated
already-prepared Almighty Holes, and filled each hole with 1 gallon of
water. Unfortunately we did this late in the evening. One hole was
empty (mucky at the bottom, but empty) in less than 1.5 hours. The
other drained overnight, and was empty (albeit mucky) in the morning,
about 14 hours after we filled it. Again, it was a half baked test
because 1) we didn't watch it very closely, and 2) the results might not
even be viable since we did this after an exceptional rain. We plan to
do 4 more tests (more regularly spaced) on Friday, digging down 18
inches, after not having precipitation for almost 6-7 days, and watch it
more closely. What SHOULD we look for? The "drainage test" guidance
I've seen varies greatly!

Thanks as always for any help you can provide!!

Judy G. in MD

Judy Ghirardelli wrote:

Hi all!!

Remember me?

Yes, Judy, Welcome back!



Well, after carefully planning my roses and garden,
getting my wonderful husband to give me 12 Almighty Rose Holes in clay
soil (2 more to go...), I'm ready to start my first rose garden!

Man, you have your own rose hole digger! Fabulous.


I now
am the happy owner of 3 roses (11 to go!) (Jeanne Lajoie, Carefree
Beauty, and Princess Marianna - wow she's got scary prickles!!).

Very nice choices. Bet lots of folks here would be happy to help you with
your other 11 choices. Perhaps you will let us know what you are looking
for for those spots?


Some questions:

* How far down to I plant the bud union on a grafted rose in MD? I've
read that the wisdom on this varies by location. Any experienced
Marylander's with advice??

As you know, I am not living in MD--but I did grow up there and garden
there with my mother. You will find all sorts of arguments for and against
burying the bud union--this is just my opinion--but where you are, knowing
how your winters and springs can be, I would plant the bud union of your
grafted roses just under the soil, with maybe an inch of soil over it, and
keep the roses mulched year round. I think you will lose less roses that
way during cold snaps, and then there is the possibility that the rose
will "go own root," which many consider a good thing. If you plant your
roses with the bud union exposed, you should probably plan on protecting
them during the winter. (Hey JANE, where are you?) Jane, our resident long-
term Maryland roser, will have some things to say.




What about an Own root bareroot rose (of
which I plan to order 3 which I can't find potted locally. They are
William Baffin, Belinda's Dream, and Hawkeye Belle)? Does the location
of the bud union planting differ if they are bareroot roses?

Ownroots should be planted following the instructions that come with them--
generally speaking with the root crown (not a bud union as they don't
have them) should be a few inches below the soil level, and mulch, mulch,
mulch. It helps your clay soil turn into marvellous black loam. I grow
lots of ownroots and I love them. It is true that they can die back to the
ground in the winter and still come back--once they are established. When
young they are tender, so take care of them in cold snaps. As for bare
roots and non, there is no real difference in planting position. Bare
roots are just a whole lot easier to plant, but must be watched daily for
the first two weeks, and kept moist at all times until they sprout new
growth that tells you their root systems are becoming established.



* I saw another poster post about the continued threat of cold
weather. I take it I can plant the babies, and then cover them for
protection should we get temps 28 degrees, which we could still get.

Yes, you can. Some mound with soil, some with mulch, I mound with both
until threat of freeze goes away. Just watch them, you want to uncover
when you see the new growth so it will get sun. BUT at this time of year,
you might have to cover them back up again if the forcast calls for a
freeze.



* I plan to alternate fertilizing with something like Osmocote (or
whatever, I'm sure I've got that name wrong), and also alfalfa meal. I
thought I'd do the alfalfa meal first. Do I do this when I plant them?
When they leaf out?

While some may say you can fertilize with certain types of fertilizer, I
never risk it because it can burn the young roots and kill the plant. (One
exception everyone agrees on is BOne Meal or Superphosfate, which will
help stong roots become established. Put a handful in the planting hole.)
Wait until you have 4-5 inches of new growth, then fertilize. Osmocote is
great--on Cass' recommendation I am using it this year. Alfalfa is good
too. I used to supplement with a water soluable like Miracle Grow for
Roses or the generic. I put down 3-month food when I see five inches of
new growth (put it under the mulch) and at the same time put three cups of
Mill's Magic Mix down, right on top of the first, and replace the mulch. I
will reapply Mills in June and in August.



* Despite massively amending the holes, raising the beds a little, and
preparing the beds in the fall, and heavily mulching, I am still
concerned about the drainage. [..] One hole was
empty (mucky at the bottom, but empty) in less than 1.5 hours.

You should be fine, but there is one thing I recommend--it can help you on
two levels, though it will add to your planting expenses. Get some
Permatil at your local garden center. It is scratchy little grey rocks.
Put an inch or two in the bottom of your planting hole, then a few inches
of soil, then a good handful of Bone Meal or Superphosphate. Put your rose
in and fit it over the mound of soil, then put a little more Permatil
around the sides. It will help drainage AND keep voles from eating the
roots. Moles hate it too. It hurts their little feet. I do this for every
rose--it works!



Thanks as always for any help you can provide!!

Judy G. in MD

Keep us posted!

In article , Judy Ghirardelli
wrote:

Hi all!!

Remember me? Well, after carefully planning my roses and garden,
getting my wonderful husband to give me 12 Almighty Rose Holes in clay
soil (2 more to go...), I'm ready to start my first rose garden! I now
am the happy owner of 3 roses (11 to go!) (Jeanne Lajoie, Carefree
Beauty, and Princess Marianna - wow she's got scary prickles!!).

Some questions:

* How far down to I plant the bud union on a grafted rose in MD? I've
read that the wisdom on this varies by location. Any experienced
Marylander's with advice?? What about an Own root bareroot rose (of
which I plan to order 3 which I can't find potted locally. They are
William Baffin, Belinda's Dream, and Hawkeye Belle)? Does the location
of the bud union planting differ if they are bareroot roses?

Most own roots arrive in pots, not bareroot. In fact, the only time I
ever got a bareroot own root was from another rosarian who sent it to
me by FedEx. Own root roses don't have a bud union, since they aren't
grafted onto rootstock: they are grown on their own roots, hence the
name.

Own root roses are planted deep enough to bury the crown. That means
the first nice branch in the canes. However, Judy, it is much safer to
grow ownroots (and, in my opinion, bareroots) in pots until they reach
5 gallon size before you plant them. Most ownroots arrive in bands or 1
gallon pots. I immediately repot them into the next larger size pot
that will accommodate burying the crown. That might be a 1 gallon pot,
it might be a 2 gallon pot, it might be a 5 gallon pot. Then I wait
until I see roots in the drain holes. When I see roots, it's time to
pot up again or put in the ground. A rose in a 1 gallon pot will
usually outgrow that pot within 3 or 4 weeks.

Use good organic potting soil. You can get discarded free 1 and 5
gallon pots from the trash heap of good nurseries or from landscapers.
Add a little bonemeal and a handful of alfalfa pellets to the dampened
pottintg soil. No fertilizer is necessary unless you want to add a
teaspoon of time release fertilizer like Osmocote, Dynamite or
Vigorgrow. Place the new rose in the pot deep enough to bury the crown
and still leave an inch of space at the top for watering. If you can't
bury the crown, try the next taller pot size.

Hope you get your answer on where to bury the budunion from someone in
Maryland. Even someone in PA would know the answer!

* I saw another poster post about the continued threat of cold
weather. I take it I can plant the babies, and then cover them for
protection should we get temps 28 degrees, which we could still get.

Covering might not be necessary if you keep them on the south side of
the house sheltered near the building or a big tree.

* I plan to alternate fertilizing with something like Osmocote (or
whatever, I'm sure I've got that name wrong), and also alfalfa meal. I
thought I'd do the alfalfa meal first. Do I do this when I plant them?
When they leaf out? Not at all now because they are babies? In June?
In late summer? I thought I read somewhere that I should not fertilize
the babies, but I don't know if that was "until they leaf out" or "until
much later."

Alfalfa pellets or meal are commonly used in the late winter/early
spring. You can apply alfalfa to tiny babies at potting time.
"Fertilizing" usually refers to either granular fertilizer or water
soluble with a nitrogen component of 10 or more. The rule of thumb is
that you apply water soluble fertilizer dissolved in water at about
half the recommended rate to roses after they have about 2 inches of
spring growth. Fish emulsion is great too. Don't apply any fertilizer
unless the plant is already well-watered from the day before.

* Despite massively amending the holes, raising the beds a little, and
preparing the beds in the fall, and heavily mulching, I am still
concerned about the drainage. We did a half-baked drainage test because
I was stressed out about this. We had about 1.75 - 2 inches of rain on
a Thursday - so it was WET. No standing water in the beds, but very
wet. We dug 2 1-gallon holes on 2 sides of the deck, in designated
already-prepared Almighty Holes, and filled each hole with 1 gallon of
water. Unfortunately we did this late in the evening. One hole was
empty (mucky at the bottom, but empty) in less than 1.5 hours. The
other drained overnight, and was empty (albeit mucky) in the morning,
about 14 hours after we filled it. Again, it was a half baked test
because 1) we didn't watch it very closely, and 2) the results might not
even be viable since we did this after an exceptional rain. We plan to
do 4 more tests (more regularly spaced) on Friday, digging down 18
inches, after not having precipitation for almost 6-7 days, and watch it
more closely. What SHOULD we look for? The "drainage test" guidance
I've seen varies greatly!

I suggest that you dig deeper holes, say the depth of a 5 or 10 gallon
pot. My test is very simple: if there is enough water in the hole to
reach the fine, white feeder roots of the rose (which really grow in
the top 18 - 24 inches) after 24 hours, the drainage is not adequate.
If my rose holes drain by the next day, they're fine here. A little
water in the bottom is to be expected. Rain is good because of the
volume, but you can also fill the hole with water and watch what
happens.

The easiest way to correct drainage on a flat site is to mound the
soil. My brother's lot is perfectly flat, with fabulous rich black clay
soils. Just to be safe, we've created mounds about 10 inches high to
plant in. I've seen the same tactic used all over Pennsylvania, and I
bet you can see it in MD. The mound is very gradual - say 4 feet in
diameter for a big big rose like an 8 foot climber. In your case, you
would mound the entire bed above the level of the lawn. When you add
mulch on top, you've got a gradual rise about a foot higher than
surrounding ground. Sorry to say, that would be two, maybe three yards
of soil in your case.

--
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html

Hi all!

Thanks for the comments. Shiva - you all already have helped me to figure out
which roses I'm planting! My complete list is Knock Out (3) with Casa Blanca
lilies planted behind them, Frederic Mistral (corner of deck), Belinda's
Dream, Baby Blanket, Don Juan, Hawkeye Belle, Carefree Beauty, Bonica, William
Baffin (other corner of deck) grown as a tree, Jeanne Lajoie. And in the
front, Heritage and Princess Marianna.

I think I was confusing own root and bareroot. Thanks for the clarification.
3 of my roses (Baffin, Hawkeye Belle, and Belinda's Dream) I can't find
locally (... yet - 2 more places to try). If I can't get them locally in a
pot, I plan to buy them ownroot, but potted. Cass, I'll take your advice and
transplant them until they are a bit bigger.

Cass - when you suggested digging deeper holes, I thought you meant rose
holes, not drainage holes for the drainage test. I mentioned it to my husband
and he just about fell over just imagining having to dig more than we already
did! He'll be relieved that you meant for the drainage test (I ASSUME that's
what you meant!!). We already have mounded somewhat the entire bed - not to a
foot, but a good few inches higher than the grass.

Thanks for the advice as always! I hope it June to be able to show a picture
or two! Very exciting!

Judy

Cass wrote:

In article , Judy Ghirardelli
wrote:

Hi all!!

Remember me? Well, after carefully planning my roses and garden,
getting my wonderful husband to give me 12 Almighty Rose Holes in clay
soil (2 more to go...), I'm ready to start my first rose garden! I now
am the happy owner of 3 roses (11 to go!) (Jeanne Lajoie, Carefree
Beauty, and Princess Marianna - wow she's got scary prickles!!).

Some questions:

* How far down to I plant the bud union on a grafted rose in MD? I've
read that the wisdom on this varies by location. Any experienced
Marylander's with advice?? What about an Own root bareroot rose (of
which I plan to order 3 which I can't find potted locally. They are
William Baffin, Belinda's Dream, and Hawkeye Belle)? Does the location
of the bud union planting differ if they are bareroot roses?

Most own roots arrive in pots, not bareroot. In fact, the only time I
ever got a bareroot own root was from another rosarian who sent it to
me by FedEx. Own root roses don't have a bud union, since they aren't
grafted onto rootstock: they are grown on their own roots, hence the
name.

Own root roses are planted deep enough to bury the crown. That means
the first nice branch in the canes. However, Judy, it is much safer to
grow ownroots (and, in my opinion, bareroots) in pots until they reach
5 gallon size before you plant them. Most ownroots arrive in bands or 1
gallon pots. I immediately repot them into the next larger size pot
that will accommodate burying the crown. That might be a 1 gallon pot,
it might be a 2 gallon pot, it might be a 5 gallon pot. Then I wait
until I see roots in the drain holes. When I see roots, it's time to
pot up again or put in the ground. A rose in a 1 gallon pot will
usually outgrow that pot within 3 or 4 weeks.

Use good organic potting soil. You can get discarded free 1 and 5
gallon pots from the trash heap of good nurseries or from landscapers.
Add a little bonemeal and a handful of alfalfa pellets to the dampened
pottintg soil. No fertilizer is necessary unless you want to add a
teaspoon of time release fertilizer like Osmocote, Dynamite or
Vigorgrow. Place the new rose in the pot deep enough to bury the crown
and still leave an inch of space at the top for watering. If you can't
bury the crown, try the next taller pot size.

Hope you get your answer on where to bury the budunion from someone in
Maryland. Even someone in PA would know the answer!

* I saw another poster post about the continued threat of cold
weather. I take it I can plant the babies, and then cover them for
protection should we get temps 28 degrees, which we could still get.

Covering might not be necessary if you keep them on the south side of
the house sheltered near the building or a big tree.

* I plan to alternate fertilizing with something like Osmocote (or
whatever, I'm sure I've got that name wrong), and also alfalfa meal. I
thought I'd do the alfalfa meal first. Do I do this when I plant them?
When they leaf out? Not at all now because they are babies? In June?
In late summer? I thought I read somewhere that I should not fertilize
the babies, but I don't know if that was "until they leaf out" or "until
much later."

Alfalfa pellets or meal are commonly used in the late winter/early
spring. You can apply alfalfa to tiny babies at potting time.
"Fertilizing" usually refers to either granular fertilizer or water
soluble with a nitrogen component of 10 or more. The rule of thumb is
that you apply water soluble fertilizer dissolved in water at about
half the recommended rate to roses after they have about 2 inches of
spring growth. Fish emulsion is great too. Don't apply any fertilizer
unless the plant is already well-watered from the day before.

* Despite massively amending the holes, raising the beds a little, and
preparing the beds in the fall, and heavily mulching, I am still
concerned about the drainage. We did a half-baked drainage test because
I was stressed out about this. We had about 1.75 - 2 inches of rain on
a Thursday - so it was WET. No standing water in the beds, but very
wet. We dug 2 1-gallon holes on 2 sides of the deck, in designated
already-prepared Almighty Holes, and filled each hole with 1 gallon of
water. Unfortunately we did this late in the evening. One hole was
empty (mucky at the bottom, but empty) in less than 1.5 hours. The
other drained overnight, and was empty (albeit mucky) in the morning,
about 14 hours after we filled it. Again, it was a half baked test
because 1) we didn't watch it very closely, and 2) the results might not
even be viable since we did this after an exceptional rain. We plan to
do 4 more tests (more regularly spaced) on Friday, digging down 18
inches, after not having precipitation for almost 6-7 days, and watch it
more closely. What SHOULD we look for? The "drainage test" guidance
I've seen varies greatly!

I suggest that you dig deeper holes, say the depth of a 5 or 10 gallon
pot. My test is very simple: if there is enough water in the hole to
reach the fine, white feeder roots of the rose (which really grow in
the top 18 - 24 inches) after 24 hours, the drainage is not adequate.
If my rose holes drain by the next day, they're fine here. A little
water in the bottom is to be expected. Rain is good because of the
volume, but you can also fill the hole with water and watch what
happens.

The easiest way to correct drainage on a flat site is to mound the
soil. My brother's lot is perfectly flat, with fabulous rich black clay
soils. Just to be safe, we've created mounds about 10 inches high to
plant in. I've seen the same tactic used all over Pennsylvania, and I
bet you can see it in MD. The mound is very gradual - say 4 feet in
diameter for a big big rose like an 8 foot climber. In your case, you
would mound the entire bed above the level of the lawn. When you add
mulch on top, you've got a gradual rise about a foot higher than
surrounding ground. Sorry to say, that would be two, maybe three yards
of soil in your case.

--
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html

Judy Ghirardelli wrote:

Cass - when you suggested digging deeper holes, I thought you meant rose
holes, not drainage holes for the drainage test. I mentioned it to my husband
and he just about fell over just imagining having to dig more than we already
did! He'll be relieved that you meant for the drainage test (I ASSUME that's
what you meant!!)

Yes, I only meant to dig drainage test holes that are larger than 1
gallon. One gallon is too small and too shallow. Sorry to be so
verbose and so unclear at the same time. :-/

. We already have mounded somewhat the entire bed - not to a
foot, but a good few inches higher than the grass.

I bet it's enough.

Thanks for the advice as always! I hope it June to be able to show a picture
or two! Very exciting!

Yes, it is exciting. Good thing you've had about the worst the weather
has to offer this year. No illusions.

Judy Ghirardelli wrote:
Hi all!!

* How far down to I plant the bud union on a grafted rose in MD? I've
read that the wisdom on this varies by location. Any experienced
Marylander's with advice?? What about an Own root bareroot rose (of
which I plan to order 3 which I can't find potted locally. They are
William Baffin, Belinda's Dream, and Hawkeye Belle)? Does the location
of the bud union planting differ if they are bareroot roses?

I hope this reply isn't too late. I'm in North Potomac, MD. I like to
plant the bud union slightly above or flush with the soil. It is my
opinion that it is better for the bud union to be above the soil and
getting sun to generate basal breaks. I have about 4" of mulch on top
of the bud union that I can easily move away to expose the bud union.

However! I did have a lot of dieback this winter. I imagine that most
of it was due to the fact that the roses were not winter protected at
all and the rough winter. I think if the bud union's lower, you'll be
able to get away with less winter protection.


* I plan to alternate fertilizing with something like Osmocote (or
whatever, I'm sure I've got that name wrong), and also alfalfa meal. I
thought I'd do the alfalfa meal first. Do I do this when I plant them?
When they leaf out? Not at all now because they are babies? In June?
In late summer? I thought I read somewhere that I should not fertilize
the babies, but I don't know if that was "until they leaf out" or "until
much later."

I like to add composted cow manure to the soil when planting, but
otherwise, don't start fertilizing until they start to leaf out.

I've already fertilized my established roses 2x this season.

* Despite massively amending the holes, raising the beds a little, and
preparing the beds in the fall, and heavily mulching, I am still
concerned about the drainage. We did a half-baked drainage test because
I was stressed out about this. We had about 1.75 - 2 inches of rain on
a Thursday - so it was WET. No standing water in the beds, but very
wet. We dug 2 1-gallon holes on 2 sides of the deck, in designated
already-prepared Almighty Holes, and filled each hole with 1 gallon of
water. Unfortunately we did this late in the evening. One hole was
empty (mucky at the bottom, but empty) in less than 1.5 hours. The
other drained overnight, and was empty (albeit mucky) in the morning,
about 14 hours after we filled it. Again, it was a half baked test
because 1) we didn't watch it very closely, and 2) the results might not
even be viable since we did this after an exceptional rain. We plan to
do 4 more tests (more regularly spaced) on Friday, digging down 18
inches, after not having precipitation for almost 6-7 days, and watch it
more closely. What SHOULD we look for? The "drainage test" guidance
I've seen varies greatly!

How big are your almighty holes? What soil do you intend to plant your
roses in? You don't intend to put them back in the clay, do you? If
your holes are indeed "almighty," I think the soil that you plant the
roses in should be more of a consideration than the drainage. However,
if you're concerned about drainage, you might want to take a bulb auger
and drill a couple holes in the bottom of your almighty hole and fill
them up with small stones so the water can wick down there first.

Thanks as always for any help you can provide!!

Judy G. in MD