In article ,
says...

"Huskies4all" wrote in message
PS, the cat's fine, went home yesterday after 2 days in the hospital.

Hello CJ
You may want to go to http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/dwh/c-soc/glyphosa.html
and look there for more info if you think it will help you when you advise
your patients.

Thanks Allegra. The owner saw the cat walk through the area she sprayed
almost immediately after the spraying was done. We think that the cat
then licked the spray off it's fur.

On another interesting note, MY dog chewed his way into our shed, and
chewed up a bottle of Roundup concentrate. (He was named Fritz the
Houdini Husky for a reason) He had NO ill effects besides a bit of
diarrhea, which he was prone to anyway. Go figure. The differences in
dogs and cats are vast. Cats just can't metabolize things the way
dogs/people can. Even essential oils can quickly become toxic to cats.

I agree with your philosophy on pets. Pets and garden chemicals are a
BAD THING together. Of course, I'm scared to death I'll accidentally
kill my roses, so I only use it in limited areas. Our neighbor once
killed our lawn by applying soil sterilizer, then watering the driveway
that the soil sterilizer had been applied on. Of course, it's downhill
to our house, so we had a nice "river" of dead lawn from his property
across to our water meter depression for 3 years.

CJ

"Huskies4all"

Thanks Allegra. The owner saw the cat walk through the area she sprayed
almost immediately after the spraying was done. We think that the cat
then licked the spray off it's fur.

On another interesting note, MY dog chewed his way into our shed, and
chewed up a bottle of Roundup concentrate. (He was named Fritz the
Houdini Husky for a reason) He had NO ill effects besides a bit of
diarrhea, which he was prone to anyway. Go figure. The differences in
dogs and cats are vast. Cats just can't metabolize things the way
dogs/people can. Even essential oils can quickly become toxic to cats.

I agree with your philosophy on pets. Pets and garden chemicals are a
BAD THING together. Of course, I'm scared to death I'll accidentally
kill my roses, so I only use it in limited areas. Our neighbor once
killed our lawn by applying soil sterilizer, then watering the driveway
that the soil sterilizer had been applied on. Of course, it's downhill
to our house, so we had a nice "river" of dead lawn from his property
across to our water meter depression for 3 years.

CJ

Absolutely about the differences. Many years ago I had a Borzoi,
her name was Natasha and she was one of the most incredible dogs
you would want to meet. My daughter learned to walk from her and
more than once I walked into the nursery to see her literally teething
on poor Tasha's ears. She was the gentlest of all creatures, and I will
love her forever. In those days I had help taking care of my garden,
and the people who came to clean and mow and all the other chores,
apparently placed some slug bait, a certain brown goo that appears
to be even now quite appealing to dogs and cats. I found out she ate
some because her exquisite champagne color coat was marked with
brown goo not only around her mouth but all over her paws as well.

A quick call to the poison control center and several capfuls of
hydrogen peroxide later, the very unhappy dog was vomiting all
over. I was even more worried then but after a night spent watching
her who slept like a log while I watched her, she was fine and I was
exhausted. I strongly then demanded that nothing be applied to the
garden without my knowledge and consent and we never had a
similar incident again. By contrast, a neighbor had a darling cat that
worried me to death as I was sure she would be killed by a car since
she was always outside. No gentle talking or insinuating this danger
to her owner made any difference. The city came one year to spray
the borders of the road and I don't need to tell you the rest, I am sure.

Loving owners keep their pets inside when spraying and when not
unless their yards are fenced and they are there when the pets are
out. And above all, they spray in the evening, they make sure all pets
(and children) are inside and they stay inside. About your neighbor,
well you are kinder than I am. Would that have happened to me I
would have expected a replacement of the soil after the sterilized
one was removed and if you still wanted the grass, to be replaced
as well. It is not the chemicals that are dangerous, but the ignorant
people who insist on using them without learning both their benefits
and their hazards. Give a car to a 12 year old who doesn't know
how to drive but who can reach the gas pedal, and you have the
same results.

Do you know if your soil can be amended or if it needs to lay fallow
for even a longer time?

Allegra

In article 2_5ja.79336$Zo.17905@sccrnsc03, says...
Do you know if your soil can be amended or if it needs to lay fallow
for even a longer time?

Allegra


This happened the first year we were in this house. It took 3 years for
the soil to support vegetation again. I admit, the third year, when I
was sure things would survive, used the "blank" space to put in several
roses. I'd planned on ripping the grass there out anyway.

I didn't want to make a big deal about the soil, because his newly
planted apple tree came down with a bad case of death. (*I* had nothing
to do with it, but I strongly suspect my hubby.) Luckily they moved a
couple years after we moved in.

As for the pets, I have 2 cats who are indoor only, and two Huskies that
are almost exclusively indoors, also. I figure, why have a pet if you're
going to ignore them?

CJ

"Huskies4all"

I didn't want to make a big deal about the soil, because his newly
planted apple tree came down with a bad case of death. (*I* had nothing
to do with it, but I strongly suspect my hubby.)

No! why would you think that? I don't believe for a second that he did! ;)

Luckily they moved a couple years after we moved in.

Amen to that. Or you would have had a problem every time they "clean"
whatever was that they wanted to "clean".

As for the pets, I have 2 cats who are indoor only, and two Huskies that
are almost exclusively indoors, also. I figure, why have a pet if you're
going to ignore them?

My sentiments exactly. Colette is now the only child and she is of course
as pampered as an only child can be. She is a good companion and a good
confident, and she sits between me and my keyboard as I am trying to write
this. But when the children were growing up we always had dogs, cats and
birds around. Once we had a turtle -Clotilde- who loved lettuce and shrimp.
Don't ask. I never figured which one of the children gave her the shrimp for
the first time, and although it is impossible to believe, every time we had
shrimp which here in Oregon is rather inexpensive, that turtle re-appeared
from wherever she was hiding to wait for someone to give her some. It was
so weird! Finally she died of old age at the age of 21, which apparently
for a turtle that size was true longevity.

I am glad you could put the ground to good use ;) I am dying to get outside
to play, but as I said early the weather has been horribly wet, cold and windy.
Time to get the Wiltpruf and go for it after finding the galoshes. What kind
of roses do you grow?

Allegra


CJ

In ,
Huskies4all wrote:

*In article ,
says...
*
* "Huskies4all" wrote in message
* PS, the cat's fine, went home yesterday after 2 days in the hospital.
*
* Hello CJ
* You may want to go to http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/dwh/c-soc/glyphosa.html
* and look there for more info if you think it will help you when you advise
* your patients.
*
*Thanks Allegra. The owner saw the cat walk through the area she sprayed
*almost immediately after the spraying was done. We think that the cat
*then licked the spray off it's fur.

Regarding this product, according to Roger's tox book, Roundup
(glyphosate) is believed to have neglible acute toxicity. It has caused
"transient signs of ocular and dermal irritation after exposure to
recently treated grass"; signs resolve quickly when product is rinsed off.

My search of the Veterinary Information Network found only about three or
four reports of such toxicity, all mild and short-lived, as well as two or
three reports of animals who drank the stuff straight out of the container
and developed some GI distress, requiring at most a very short hospital
stay with IV fluid support to counter the dehydrating effect of the
transient vomiting and diarrhea.

FWIW.

-hillary

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In article ,
says...
* "Huskies4all" wrote in message
* PS, the cat's fine, went home yesterday after 2 days in the hospital.
My search of the Veterinary Information Network found only about three or
four reports of such toxicity, all mild and short-lived, as well as two or
three reports of animals who drank the stuff straight out of the container
and developed some GI distress, requiring at most a very short hospital
stay with IV fluid support to counter the dehydrating effect of the
transient vomiting and diarrhea.

Hillary, yes, that's what we thought, too. In fact, my Bridge puppy
Fritz once ate a whole bottle of the concentrate, and it only gave him a
day's worth of diarrhea and upset stomach.

CJ

In ,
Huskies4all wrote:

*In article ,
*says...
* * "Huskies4all" wrote in message
* * PS, the cat's fine, went home yesterday after 2 days in the hospital.
* My search of the Veterinary Information Network found only about three or
* four reports of such toxicity, all mild and short-lived, as well as two or
* three reports of animals who drank the stuff straight out of the container
* and developed some GI distress, requiring at most a very short hospital
* stay with IV fluid support to counter the dehydrating effect of the
* transient vomiting and diarrhea.
*
*Hillary, yes, that's what we thought, too. In fact, my Bridge puppy
*Fritz once ate a whole bottle of the concentrate, and it only gave him a
*day's worth of diarrhea and upset stomach.

Also FWIW, I have seen my share of pyrethrin/pyrethroid/permethrin
toxicity, metaldehyde toxicity, organochlorine toxicity, carbamate
toxicity, organophosphate toxicity, ethylene glycol toxicity, ethanol
toxicity, tetrahydrocannabinol toxicity, a couple of cocaine and
amphetamine toxicities, many many prescription drug toxicities... but I
have never seen a case of glyphosate/Roundup toxicity.




--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

Recent research concerning human poisoning:
Title: Poisonings with the herbicides glyphosate and glyphosate-trimesium.

Authors: Mortensen O S; Sorensen F W; Gregersen M; Jensen K H:

Authors affiliation: S Bispebjerg Hospital, arbejds- og miljomedicinsk
klinik

Published in: UGESKRIFT FOR LAEGER, volumn 162, pages 4656-4659, (2000)

Abstract: "Generally the herbicide glyphosate is considered harmless to
humans. Glyphosate-trimesium is labelled harmful (Xn), whereas
glyphosate-isopropylamine carries no warning sign. As cases of serious
poisoning have emerged contacts to the Poison Information Centre have been
reviewed. The persons exposed were mainly smaller children and adults 20 to
59 years of age. Oral exposure was recorded in 47 persons, inhalation
exposure in 24 and topical contact in 42. About one fourth of the exposed
persons were asymptomatic. Most of the symptomatic poisonings demonstrated
complaints from the mouth, the gastrointestinal tract and the airways.
Eleven patients were admitted to hospital. Two died, one of them having
ingested the isopropylamine salt, the other the trimesium salt. Death ensued
quickly in the latter patient. A similar fate was observed in a child--not
included in the present material--who had also ingested the trimesium
compound."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------

Title: Cardiogenic shock in a patient with glyphosate-surfactant poisoning.

Authors: Lin C M; Lai C P; Fang T C; Lin C L

Authors affiliation: Department of Internal Medicine, Tzu-Chi Buddhist
General Hospital, Hualien, Taiwan

Published in: JOURNAL OF THE FORMOSAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, volumn 98, pages
698-700, (1999).

Abstract: "We present a case of glyphosate-induced cardiogenic shock in a
young man. The patient a 26-year-old man, presented with nausea and vomiting
4 hours after attempting suicide by drinking 150 mL of glyphosate
surfactant. Cardiogenic shock with accelerated idio-ventricular rhythm on
electrocardiography developed after admission. Intravenous injection of
epinephrine, atropine, and calcium failed to improve the condition. Over the
next 16 hours, the QRS complex gradually narrowed, sinus rhythm returned,
and the hemodynamic status improved. Echocardiograms revealed diffuse left
ventricular hypokinesis with markedly reduced ejection fraction while the
patient was in shock; normal left ventricular function resumed the next day.
In this case, the glyphosate surfactant poisoning-induced shock may have
been due to transient suppression of the cardiac conduction system and
contractility, rather than intravascular hypovolemia."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

Title: Clinical impact of upper gastrointestinal tract injuries in
glyphosate-surfactant oral intoxication.

Authors: Chang, C.-Y.; Peng, Y.-C.; Hung, D.-Z.; Hu, W.-H.; Yang, D.-Y.;
Lin, T.-J.

Authors affiliation: Department of Emergency Medicine, Taichung Veterans
General Hospital, Taichung, Taiwan.

Published in: Human & Experimental Toxicology, volumn 18, pages 475-478,
(1999).

Abstract: "Fifty patients with glyphosate-surfactant oral ingestion were
studied with upper gastrointestinal (UGI) endoscopic grading using Zargar's
modified grading system for mucosal corrosive injury. Esophageal injury was
seen in 68% of the patients, gastric injury in 72%, and duodenal injury in
16%. There were no grade 3 injuries. The upper gastrointestinal tract
injuries caused by glyphosate-surfactant were minor in comparison with those
by other strong acids. The WBC count, amt. of glyphosate-surfactant
ingested, length of hospital stay and the occurrence of serious
complications increased markedly in the group which had grade 2 esophageal
injuries. Thus, the severity of the esophageal injuries may be a prognostic
factor for the patient with glyphosate-surfactant ingestion. The UGI
endoscopy may be indicated for grading esophageal injury in patients who
have ingested glyphosate-surfactant in amts. greater than 100 mL. Physicians
should pay more attention to the patients with grade 2 or 3 esophageal
injuries to prevent serious complications and to provide aggressive
supportive care. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Rapid lethal intoxication caused by the herbicide
glyphosate-trimesium (Touchdown).

Authors: Sorensen, F. W.; Gregersen, M.

Authors affiliation: Department of Forensic Medicine, University of Aarhus,
Aarhus, Den.

Published in: Human & Experimental Toxicology, volumn 18, pages 735-737,
(1999).

Abstract: "Two cases of rapid lethal intoxication with the herbicide
glyphosate-trimesium (Touchdown) are presented. A 6-yr-old boy who
accidentally ingested a mouthful of glyphosate-trimesium died within
minutes. The same happened to a 34-yr-old woman who intentionally ingested
approx. 150 mL of glyphosate-trimesium. The post-mortem examn. revealed
gastric content and edema of the mucus membranes of the airways, erosion of
the mucus membranes of the gastrointestinal tract, pulmonary edema, cerebral
edema, and dilated right atrium and ventricle of the heart. The speed of
which death occurs is much more rapid than lethal intoxications with the
herbicide glyphosate (isoprophylamine), also known as 'Roundup'. It is
suggested that the lethal mechanism between the two herbicides may be
different. The component, trimethylsulfonium, of the glyphosate-trimesium
may facilitate the absorption after oral ingestion. This difference can be
crucial in the treatment of human intoxication. The authors propose that
containers with glyphosate-trimesium must be labeled because of the apparent
effect of lethal intoxication. "

Title: Rapid lethal intoxication caused by the herbicide
glyphosate-trimesium (Touchdown). [Erratum to above].

Authors: Sorensen, F. W.; Gregersen,

Authors affiliation: M. Department of Forensic Medicine, University of
Aarhus, Aarhus, Den.

Published in: Human & Experimental Toxicology, volumn 19, page 484, (2000).

Abstract: "In Case 2, the bottle and stomach concns. of glyphosate-trimesium
should have been given in g/mL, rather than g/L.


--
Henry Kuska, retired

http://home.neo.rr.com/kuska/