"Cass" wrote, after Allegra explained

So, I suggested that we place 2x4s
about 6 feet apart in front of the fence, buried in quickcrete. Then
run lengths of rebar arched atop the posts burying them about 6-inch
into the posts.

How do you do that? Drill rebar-sized holed in the 2 x 4 and run the
rebar through it? What stops the rebar from thanging out of the hole in
a high wind and whip-sawing anyone nearby?

I should have said that too; verbose and confusing. where did I read that? ;)
Drill about six to eight-inch dead center on the top of the 2x4 a hole about
1/2-inch around bigger than the diameter of the rebar. Fill the hole with Qcrete
and place the rebar in the hole. Any extra Qcrete is easy to clean. Depending
on the length you decide for the rebar the arch will be more or less pronounced.
Seven feet wouldn't give you an arch, it wouldn't even get to the bottom of the
hole in the rebar, but 8 to 8 and a half feet may be the ticket. We are going to
experiment with some willow to see which length is pleasing and practical -
Of course in that order.

You saw the picture of the fabulous blue at St. Albans?

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eberndoo...s/WarmWelcome.
jpg

No, no that one. We are at the same latitude here in Portland as they
are, and according to all laws of physics we should have the same light
to deal with. Wellllllllll..............our spectrum is similar but there it ends.
I don't know if the density of our state and city parks indeed have such
an impact that color appears at times brighter and at times garish in here
than it does in London or Bath or any area around there. But it does.
Once I dragged across three airports a big planter, honestly. The bloody
thing weighed a ton and I was then 98 lb soaking wet. Got one of those
carry things which are all but worthless but I could drag the thing and
refused to let it go with the luggage. Ending having to pay for an extra
seat on the plane for the thing, but the color was to die for. There.
When I got to Portland the marvelous green that had tones of celadon
and blue across the glaze turned into the most repulsive mustard one
could only find in a bad dream. No rose could have improved that and
it ended at the late Joel Cotet studio where I have no idea what he did
with it. Great form, fantastic shade in London. Here it would have been
offensive as a cuspidor. So, black it is for me. It fades elegantly as you
suggested. All the shutters outside are black, and so is our front door.
It seems timeless and even the outrageous combinations I subject the
window boxes to, somehow expire a great sigh and do what they can
to look beautiful.

Painted trellises, especially in the French mode, are truly wonderful -
but high maintenance here close to the ocean. Black is very cool,
fades. I love it as an trim color. In fact, the trim on my house is
diplomat grey, which has faded in 2 years.

My favorite effect. I love faded things, exception being perception and
intelligence, comprehension of course is part of the trinity. There is a
certain patina that only time can give. Years ago I took classes at the
Isabel O'Neill Studio in San Francisco to learn about faux paint. It was
both very interesting (this being 1985 there wasn't the nauseating abundance
of faux everything that happened within the following ten years) and
quite revealing to me that certain colors were not only mellowed but gained
in intensity as they faded. The true pigment survived nearly intact while
the additions decomposed a bit at a time, and that is what I still aim to
when I mix our own paints. Martin Senour is all we use and never
never had a problem with it. Ageing a good formula is always an adventure
filled with fun and much ado.

I need another diva? Prince Eugene is doing his thing this year. I'm
suitably impressed. Tons and tons of buds, good flowers (I hope you saw
my post). I wonder that Vintage never sells this rose. Mine lives in a
pot and has no plans to move soon.

Don't even think of moving him. I swear roses can read your mind.
Ignore him. Feed him and once in a while play Edith Piaf or Gilbert
Becaud to him.

I've got some kind of garden contagion this year. Very odd, obviously
some microbial contagion because it enters pruning cuts. I don't think
it's dirty pruners because only certain roses get it, and not just, or
even primarily disease prone roses. sigh At the moment, I'm just
cutting it off.

Description please. Once in Orinda I got something like what you
describe. Nothing to do with the secateurs it turned out but with
one of the hoses that was "planted" in that bed. Some fungus of some
form or another, soil inhabitant that got inside of the hose and
in one of those 3 or 4 days that the hose was turned off, multiplied
apparently at an incredible rate. I am sorry I do not remember the
specifics (late 1960s so I guess I can be forgiven since it never happened
here) and only changing that piece of the hose solved the problem.
May not be the same but it is worth looking for it.

I went to Vintage Gardens where I had apparently permanently
lodged my credit card. I came home with more roses, a Baby Faurax
lookalike, Raymond Privat, bigger (yea!), and Mme Lambard. Then just
cuz I'm an evil enabler, I bought two fabulous Suan Louise's because I
want others to grow this hard-to-find rose. Her buds are about perfect:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...il2Bouquet.jpg

English Garden (forever useful in bouquets, that buff, the perfect
blender and filler, quite good tea scent), Bridesmaid the blush pink (I
think-a mislabeled rose), Niles Cochet in the front. Niles Cochet has
the most perfect foliage of any rose, or maybe ties with Sophie's
Perpetual.

Ah Vintage! Day before yesterday I got another supplemental list, and I
told BH that if he truly loved me he keep those away from me. His response
was that he truly loved me and he knew I didn't mean it. Hard to be married
to a man who knows me so well ;) Out while the sun shines for about 20
minutes. Impulse buying of another Gertrude Jekyll to plant with the original
one, I like exuberant abandonment of roses spilling all over the place and
she is as far from the namesake when it comes to exuberance as you can
have it. She will be planted near by a golden prostrated juniper (flat little affair
clinging to the ground about 10 feet away, in the same bed with the Spanish
and French lavenders, and about 6 feet away from Annabelle, one of my
favorite Hydrangeas that I was sure had died, and that now is filled with green
little wings posed to take flight. Then I will sprinkle the beds around Leonards
bathtubs with Martha's corn - that is the name BH gave to the seeds in a
container from the notorious Martha Stewart that much as we diss her the
woman has a certain sense of quality when it comes to seeds, thus last year
a little container worth $6.99 of lavender, blue, red poppies, bachelor buttons,
you name it I don't remember myriad of "wild" looking things grew to a nearly
5 to 6 foot height in the bed, earning the moniker of Martha's corn.
They will help hide the black pots until the perennials that are going to be
planted this fall will take over the job.

Let me know the symptoms of the problem with the roses. It may jolt some
obscure piece of information in my brain that may be useful.

Allegra

Allegra wrote:

"Cass" wrote, after Allegra explained


Painted trellises, especially in the French mode, are truly wonderful -
but high maintenance here close to the ocean. Black is very cool,
fades. I love it as an trim color. In fact, the trim on my house is
diplomat grey, which has faded in 2 years.

My favorite effect. I love faded things, exception being perception and
intelligence, comprehension of course is part of the trinity. There is a
certain patina that only time can give. Years ago I took classes at the
Isabel O'Neill Studio in San Francisco to learn about faux paint. It was
both very interesting (this being 1985 there wasn't the nauseating abundance
of faux everything that happened within the following ten years) and
quite revealing to me that certain colors were not only mellowed but gained
in intensity as they faded. The true pigment survived nearly intact while
the additions decomposed a bit at a time, and that is what I still aim to
when I mix our own paints. Martin Senour is all we use and never
never had a problem with it. Ageing a good formula is always an adventure
filled with fun and much ado.

Not to mention the differences in pigments. You think it's the light,
and that's undoubtedly a factor. I think the pigments make a huge
difference. I challenge anyone in the US of A to come up with a paint
that even vaguely resembles Bologna terra rosa. We're getting better at
it, but our paints are just too painty and not dull enough on stucco. I
mix up my own paint too.

I've got some kind of garden contagion this year. Very odd, obviously
some microbial contagion because it enters pruning cuts. I don't think
it's dirty pruners because only certain roses get it, and not just, or
even primarily disease prone roses. sigh At the moment, I'm just
cutting it off.

Description please. Once in Orinda I got something like what you
describe. Nothing to do with the secateurs it turned out but with
one of the hoses that was "planted" in that bed. Some fungus of some
form or another, soil inhabitant that got inside of the hose and
in one of those 3 or 4 days that the hose was turned off, multiplied
apparently at an incredible rate. I am sorry I do not remember the
specifics (late 1960s so I guess I can be forgiven since it never happened
here) and only changing that piece of the hose solved the problem.
May not be the same but it is worth looking for it.

Okay: here are the two pix. The first something I cut off a brand new
rose that came from Sonoma County, where they have it too. And they
spray.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...isease2003.jpg

The second is off of Safrano. This lesion actually killed the cane. I
don't show the rest of the stem with the leaves fizzled on the end, but
take it from me, they fizzled:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...DiseasePix.jpg

This stuff does not penetrate the pith right away. I can see the
maroonish discoloration of the bark spreading several inches in both
directions, up and down the cane. If I cut through the discolored cane,
the pith is white and healthy.

I'm sure you know I'm not much for spraying, but even if I were, I
wouldn't do it unless I knew what I was spraying for. Tom Liggett says
he's seen a lot of botrytis this year, and the estimable Paul Barden
told me that he thinks it looks like the botrytis he sees up his way.
Which makes perfect sense because it is eVerYwHeRe in this damn county.


Let me know the symptoms of the problem with the roses. It may jolt some
obscure piece of information in my brain that may be useful.

Allegra

"Cass" wrote, after Allegra pondered about this:

I've got some kind of garden contagion this year. Very odd, obviously
some microbial contagion because it enters pruning cuts. I don't think
it's dirty pruners because only certain roses get it, and not just, or
even primarily disease prone roses. sigh At the moment, I'm just
cutting it off.

Okay: here are the two pix. The first something I cut off a brand new
rose that came from Sonoma County, where they have it too. And they
spray.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...isease2003.jpg

The second is off of Safrano. This lesion actually killed the cane. I
don't show the rest of the stem with the leaves fizzled on the end, but
take it from me, they fizzled:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...DiseasePix.jpg

This stuff does not penetrate the pith right away. I can see the
maroonish discoloration of the bark spreading several inches in both
directions, up and down the cane. If I cut through the discolored cane,
the pith is white and healthy.

I'm sure you know I'm not much for spraying, but even if I were, I
wouldn't do it unless I knew what I was spraying for. Tom Liggett says
he's seen a lot of botrytis this year, and the estimable Paul Barden
told me that he thinks it looks like the botrytis he sees up his way.
Which makes perfect sense because it is eVerYwHeRe in this damn county.

I have to add my vote to that. I have seen this here last year and I am sure
I will see it again this year in the roses that have yet to be pruned. It was
disconcerting at first encounter, since for who knows what reason I always
look for the polka dots first ( the cart ahead of the horse syndrome when you
have much too much in your head I guess). The dead giveaway for me is the
"burnt" blackened look of the periphery of the dead tissue. BH sprayed with
Mancozeb twice and that got rid of the problem. He just told me he didn't
work "real hard" at it. We cut the infected canes first, took off all the blossoms
in each of the plants and some around it, and we have yet to see it, but given
the present weather condition, I am willing to bet this wouldn't hold for long.

Here is a valuable address in case you don't already have it to check cause
and effect of using it in your area. You know I am not a forceful advocate of
chemical spraying, in spite of my reputation. I just simply no longer believe
you can fight Panzers with violets, if you catch the meaning here. So when my
roses in spite of cleaning the beds and letting air flow at the expense of more
roses still doesn't work because Oregon is Wet Country, then my dear, I am
too old to accept that I can only grow certain roses and no others. It is not
stubbornness, it just simply a matter of a bit of selfishness and the hope that the
roses will bring the same joy to others that they bring to me. Particularly to those
who have no idea what an old garden rose really looks like.

http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/

Try it solely on one plant and see what happens. Of course methods and amounts
vary according to locale and infestation. But if you get a clean rose with very little,
that is the amount you need. Good luck, don't let it spread, and just cutting the
canes alone is not going to do it, unfortunately.

Allegra

"Cass" wrote in message
...
Allegra wrote:

I've got some kind of garden contagion this year. Very odd, obviously
some microbial contagion because it enters pruning cuts. I don't think
it's dirty pruners because only certain roses get it, and not just, or
even primarily disease prone roses. sigh At the moment, I'm just
cutting it off.

Okay: here are the two pix. The first something I cut off a brand new
rose that came from Sonoma County, where they have it too. And they
spray.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...isease2003.jpg

Cass, Allegra,

One of my potted roses got something just like this picture, last year.
The poor thing looked like it had leprosy, and it dropped all its leaves,
every one of them. I might add that this was a cheapie rose too, so it was
likely questionable from the start--anyway, it didn't die (though it looked
like it was going to). The affliction didn't look like anything in any of
my books, so I had no idea what to do. Out of desperation, I took a tube of
bacitracin antibiotic ointment and slathered it all up and down all the
canes. It hung on. It came back. It leafed out all over again, healthy
even. Bloomed all summer, very fragrent too. That rose didn't go dormant
all winter (well, Seattle winter this year was nothin'), and it even BLOOMED
right after New Years. Right now, that bush is so leafed out and so
healthy, I've got to actually thin the leaves for air circulation. Compact,
but bushy as all get-out. And, interestingly enough, the canes STILL have
that mottled purplish blotching. Some of the woodier canes have white-ish
patches on them. But it looks totally healthy, and not one single leave has
a speck of blackspot or mildew. Healthiest leaves I've ever seen on any of
my plants, no joke.

I'm not sure if your plants have the same thing mine did, and I'm not sure
if the ointment did it, but hey-- it's worth a try.

JimS.
Seattle

"JimS." wrote:

Cass, Allegra,

One of my potted roses got something just like this picture, last year.
The poor thing looked like it had leprosy, and it dropped all its leaves,
every one of them. I might add that this was a cheapie rose too, so it was
likely questionable from the start--anyway, it didn't die (though it looked
like it was going to). The affliction didn't look like anything in any of
my books, so I had no idea what to do. Out of desperation, I took a tube of
bacitracin antibiotic ointment and slathered it all up and down all the
canes. It hung on. It came back. It leafed out all over again, healthy
even. Bloomed all summer, very fragrent too. That rose didn't go dormant
all winter (well, Seattle winter this year was nothin'), and it even BLOOMED
right after New Years. Right now, that bush is so leafed out and so
healthy, I've got to actually thin the leaves for air circulation. Compact,
but bushy as all get-out. And, interestingly enough, the canes STILL have
that mottled purplish blotching. Some of the woodier canes have white-ish
patches on them. But it looks totally healthy, and not one single leave has
a speck of blackspot or mildew. Healthiest leaves I've ever seen on any of
my plants, no joke.

I'm not sure if your plants have the same thing mine did, and I'm not sure
if the ointment did it, but hey-- it's worth a try.

JimS.
Seattle

Hello Jim,

I am not all that surprised since most fungal diseases can be contained with
Bacitracin antibiotic USP (the equivalent of Neosporin) and in just one rose
it is well worth the trouble and the expense. However, and here it kicks the
howevers, last year just about our entire leftover bed with the HTs that
were here were the ones infected. It was heartbreaking because about 8
feet across was our new bed with all the Austins in what we call the "nursery"
as in babies' nursery. I was petrified that we were going to lose the ones in
the pots like E.Veyrat Hermanos that was a tiny twig that has taken me
several years to get.

The problem with botrytis is that it is so darn seasonal that we only suspect it
in Fall, but I guess any wet and/or humid climate will bring it in. This is how
the canes typically look even before the blossoms show any sign at least he

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/pp/not...02/rosebbc.htm

And, interestingly enough, the canes STILL have
that mottled purplish blotching. Some of the woodier canes have white-ish
patches on them.

If the white patches are something like these patches then we are talking
powdery mildew here.

http://www.theoldrosarian.org/powderymildew.jpg

Thanks for the info, truly. I wish we could use more natural elements to cure
these plagues. But some times you just have to bring the artillery and hope the
roses will make it through. Happy to hear that in some cases, as in yours, the
soft touch works.

Allegra

"Allegra" wrote in message
news:eYuja.332592$F1.54803@sccrnsc04...

"JimS." wrote:


The problem with botrytis is that it is so darn seasonal that we only
suspect it
in Fall, but I guess any wet and/or humid climate will bring it in. This
is how
the canes typically look even before the blossoms show any sign at least
he

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/pp/not...02/rosebbc.htm

I thought it might be botrytis...but if it was, it didn't look like this pic
at all. It was more purple and more black, and the canes never shriveled up
and died like that. They stayed fine-- inside anyway. The only thing that
happened was all the leaves dropped, at once. Then, they all re-grew.

And, interestingly enough, the canes STILL have
that mottled purplish blotching. Some of the woodier canes have
white-ish
patches on them.

If the white patches are something like these patches then we are talking
powdery mildew here.

http://www.theoldrosarian.org/powderymildew.jpg

Nope, the white spots don't look anything like that. Believe me, I know
what powdery mildew looks like, I get that plenty. Usually just on the
leaves. But it doesn't look at all like that. I need to take some
pictures.

Luckily for me, this was just one plant. This year, I'd probably not have
been as patient-- another exucuse to ditch one to make room for something
else!! (you get callous, don't you?). At that time, I still felt like a
Missionary Doctor, so I was too stubborn to let it die.

Thanks for the info, truly. I wish we could use more natural elements to
cure
these plagues. But some times you just have to bring the artillery and
hope the
roses will make it through. Happy to hear that in some cases, as in yours,
the
soft touch works.

(Of course, I do still spray, too....it just didn't help this one)

Allegra

"JimS." wrote:
I thought it might be botrytis...but if it was, it didn't look like this pic
at all. It was more purple and more black, and the canes never shriveled up
and died like that. They stayed fine-- inside anyway. The only thing that
happened was all the leaves dropped, at once. Then, they all re-grew.

You know I think that we are talking about here from your description is
brown canker (which is not brown, so go figure) from my MG notes :
"when it first appears you can see small red to purple spots in the canes and
later on these spots usually develop into gray-white lesions on the stem surface.
A white-grayish patch can be seen as the small spots are massed together.
More often than not little damage occurs the first year; however, in time the
white lesions continue to enlarge and brown cankers (several inches long)
form, girdling the stem until it dies. The cankers may extend down into the
crown of the plant and may destroy the entire plant.Because the fungus
overwinters in the diseased canes, spores can be spread to healthy canes
by splashing water, wind, and pruning tools. However, the pathogen can
only enter the plant tissue through wounds."

Which is one of the reason why I carry around a little bucket in my wagon
with 1:8 clorox water solution to dip the secateurs after each cut of the
infected canes. But what Cass and I have experienced is more aligned
with botrytis canker, although the vectors are similar if not the same.
The part about the pruning tools is important, because it is essential to
keep those babes sharp as tacks otherwise when you make a cut, guess
what? ragged edges are open doors. And botrytis spores sleep the winter
away in fallen leaves or damaged canes, at the bottom of the plant or close
by where they can catch a ride with a little bit of wind or a little bit of water
splashing around the plant. Bahthards! (say this with a French accent and
nobody is going to critize your choice ;)

Take a couple of shots of your rose, I mean the canes and I will see if I
can tell you long distance what is it that you have. That will be 25 cents,
thank you.

Allegra












And, interestingly enough, the canes STILL have
that mottled purplish blotching. Some of the woodier canes have
white-ish
patches on them.

If the white patches are something like these patches then we are talking
powdery mildew here.

http://www.theoldrosarian.org/powderymildew.jpg

Nope, the white spots don't look anything like that. Believe me, I know
what powdery mildew looks like, I get that plenty. Usually just on the
leaves. But it doesn't look at all like that. I need to take some
pictures.

Luckily for me, this was just one plant. This year, I'd probably not have
been as patient-- another exucuse to ditch one to make room for something
else!! (you get callous, don't you?). At that time, I still felt like a
Missionary Doctor, so I was too stubborn to let it die.

Thanks for the info, truly. I wish we could use more natural elements to
cure
these plagues. But some times you just have to bring the artillery and
hope the
roses will make it through. Happy to hear that in some cases, as in yours,
the
soft touch works.

(Of course, I do still spray, too....it just didn't help this one)

Allegra

In article rAqja.330495$F1.53936@sccrnsc04, Allegra
wrote:

"Cass" wrote, after Allegra pondered about this:

I've got some kind of garden contagion this year. ..

Okay: here are the two pix...

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...isease2003.jpg


http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...DiseasePix.jpg

I'm sure you know I'm not much for spraying, but even if I were, I
wouldn't do it unless I knew what I was spraying for. Tom Liggett says
he's seen a lot of botrytis this year, and the estimable Paul Barden
told me that he thinks it looks like the botrytis he sees up his way.
Which makes perfect sense because it is eVerYwHeRe in this damn county.

I have to add my vote to that. ... The dead giveaway for me is the "burnt" blackened look of
the periphery of the dead tissue. BH sprayed with Mancozeb twice and
that got rid of the problem. He just told me he didn't work "real
hard" at it.

It is encouraging to know that something actually works without a
steady regime of spraying. That I simply won't do.

Here is a valuable address in case you don't already have it to check
cause and effect of using it in your area.

http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/

Excellent . The trouble was, of course, the winter damn blooming roses.
Interestingly, I have no botrytis-spoiled blooms on many of the rose
showing specks of the cane disease.

Try it solely on one plant and see what happens. Of course methods
and amounts vary according to locale and infestation. But if you get
a clean rose with very little, that is the amount you need. Good
luck, don't let it spread, and just cutting the canes alone is not
going to do it, unfortunately.

Thanks, Allegra. It's a cool, still day after a rain. Chemical Cass may
unlock the cabinetta and pull out the big guns to run a beta test. I
don't really look forward to losing the spring flush. I bought this
stuff last fall because some very heavy blooming roses that have blooms
all the time did show those damn spots....