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#1
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Getting Rid of Thrips
I was given a bottle of Cygon because a friend heard me complaining about
how thrips ruin my light-colored blooms. I went to the Cornell site to read about it, so I am well aware of its toxicity, etc. Here is the site for anyone interested: http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/ddt- famphur/dimethoate/insect-prof-dimethoate.html Two questions: 1. Is anyone here using this for thrips, spider mites, or anything else? Here is what the site says it kills: "Aphids, mites, codling moths, grasshoppers, plum curculio, pear psylla, scale, leafhoppers, thrips, loopers,Drosophila, lygus bugs, leafminers, flies, olive flies, whiteflies, Hassids, houseflies and many others (8a) Effective against many insect larvae. Moves throughout the plant rapidly. Relatively slow acting against houseflies but with up to 8 weeks residual control. Used to control fly maggots in manure piles." Sounds pretty good to me. 2. If I use it, how do I incorporate it into my spray program, which is simply Orthenex every ten days. Should I use just fungicide, perhaps Funginex or Immunox or the Daconil-based Fertilome fungicide? Can these things be mixed, or must I spray them separately? My current, simple routine leaves me with marginal blackspot, loads of thrips, a few aphids, and just a few Japanese Beetles. Should I leave well enough alone, or try the Cygon? I use a respirator, gloves, eye protectors, and protective clothing when I spray, and no pets are allowed in my fenced yard so that is not a concern. Thanks. |
#2
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Getting Rid of Thrips
Thrips are primarily attracted to the buds of light colored varieties just
as the sepals began to 'crack' and the bud displays some color. Most any insecticide is effective. My program is to use a hand held pump type spray bottle and spray JUST the buds. If you can eliminate the thrips just as they are attracted to the light colors it is not necessary to douse the entire garden with an insecticide. Aphids are sucking insects that are almost always found on the new, tender growth. Although you can use an insecticide, they can usually be washed off with a strong spray of water. If you chose to use an insecticide, most any broad spectrum product is effective. Spider mites are NOT an insect and are not usually controlled with insecticides. They tend to be near the ground on the lower leaves and usually on the underside of the leaves. Black spot is usually found on older growth, once it is established the goal is to prevent further spread, it is NOT eliminated by a fungicide. Please keep in mind that there are MANY beneficial insects that are also killed by the broad spectrum insecticides. I prefer NOT to douse the garden as it eliminated the beneficial. If you are observant and use preventative measures it is usually not necessary to spray the entire garden with the broad spectrum products. Tim "Shiva" wrote in message news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.5af854ab6672910298712aa1ab24ec57 @1049495235.cotse.net... I was given a bottle of Cygon because a friend heard me complaining about how thrips ruin my light-colored blooms. I went to the Cornell site to read about it, so I am well aware of its toxicity, etc. Here is the site for anyone interested: http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/ddt- famphur/dimethoate/insect-prof-dimethoate.html Two questions: 1. Is anyone here using this for thrips, spider mites, or anything else? Here is what the site says it kills: "Aphids, mites, codling moths, grasshoppers, plum curculio, pear psylla, scale, leafhoppers, thrips, loopers,Drosophila, lygus bugs, leafminers, flies, olive flies, whiteflies, Hassids, houseflies and many others (8a) Effective against many insect larvae. Moves throughout the plant rapidly. Relatively slow acting against houseflies but with up to 8 weeks residual control. Used to control fly maggots in manure piles." Sounds pretty good to me. 2. If I use it, how do I incorporate it into my spray program, which is simply Orthenex every ten days. Should I use just fungicide, perhaps Funginex or Immunox or the Daconil-based Fertilome fungicide? Can these things be mixed, or must I spray them separately? My current, simple routine leaves me with marginal blackspot, loads of thrips, a few aphids, and just a few Japanese Beetles. Should I leave well enough alone, or try the Cygon? I use a respirator, gloves, eye protectors, and protective clothing when I spray, and no pets are allowed in my fenced yard so that is not a concern. Thanks. |
#3
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Getting Rid of Thrips
Tim Tompkins wrote:[...]
Thanks for a thoughtful and concise answer, Tim. I will try the Cygon in a small spray bottle when the thrips first appear. By the way, Orthenex and Immunox plus now contain a miticide, and Cygon's (I think it is technically Cygon II)label says that it does too. Please keep in mind that there are MANY beneficial insects that are also killed by the broad spectrum insecticides. I prefer NOT to douse the garden as it eliminated the beneficial. Perhaps you can help me understand how you are using the term "broad spectrum." I like to use liquid (i.e., not granular) SYSTEMIC insecticide, which in my understanding kills only insects that bite or suck the juices of the roses. The opposite, sometimes referred to as CONTACT insecticides apparently kill any insect that comes into contact with it. If I use the former, and not the latter, I do not expect to kill beneficials, because by definition, beneficials do not chew, pierce, suck on, or otherwise bother the plants. In my experience, this works fairly well, since I still have ladybugs and many other types of insects in my garden. I understand "broad spectrum" to mean killing a wide variety of insects. Do you make no distinction between systemic and contact insecticides? Thank you. |
#4
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Getting Rid of Thrips
With the term Broad Spectrum I mean an insecticide that is NON specific, and
contact rather than systemic. Products such as Orthene are contact insecticides and in my experience and opinion have no systemic or residual characteristics. Orthene and the like are the common products on the shelves of garden centers that most of us are exposed to on a regular basis. The more expensive products, at first glance at least, such as Immunox, are usually not offered in the retail trade due to the high initial purchase cost. I personally don't care for the food based systemic that are applied to the soil as they often destroy the beneficial organisms in the soil, such as earth worms. My general position is to treat when there is a problem and use a minimal technique along with IPM. I also 'feed the soil and let the soil feed the plants'. I DO use preventative measures for fungal diseases, as a rule these diseases can not be eradicated once they infect a plant, you can halt the spread but once the damage is done there is no mechanism to remove the black spots, rust, mildew etc. Over all, my style is to observe, and be informed about the pathogens that affect our roses. A bit of knowledge is, in my opinion much more affective than a bottle of what ever can be sprayed. The products such as Immunox, Avid, Banner Max that are available through specialty mail order are more cost affective, offer better performance and have fewer draw backs than the general purpose products from the garden center. I also don't keep rose varieties that have disease problems such as Mister Lincoln and Touch of Class. These two are mildew magnets and tend to encourage the disease in the rest of the garden. I love Mister Lincoln, it was my first rose, it just has too many drawbacks, the same for Touch of Class. The bottom line is, 'observation and information' are the most affective tools we have. Tim "Shiva" wrote in message news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.6ac5547c259222a3735116ca857c7569 @1049567828.cotse.net... Tim Tompkins wrote:[...] Thanks for a thoughtful and concise answer, Tim. I will try the Cygon in a small spray bottle when the thrips first appear. By the way, Orthenex and Immunox plus now contain a miticide, and Cygon's (I think it is technically Cygon II)label says that it does too. Please keep in mind that there are MANY beneficial insects that are also killed by the broad spectrum insecticides. I prefer NOT to douse the garden as it eliminated the beneficial. Perhaps you can help me understand how you are using the term "broad spectrum." I like to use liquid (i.e., not granular) SYSTEMIC insecticide, which in my understanding kills only insects that bite or suck the juices of the roses. The opposite, sometimes referred to as CONTACT insecticides apparently kill any insect that comes into contact with it. If I use the former, and not the latter, I do not expect to kill beneficials, because by definition, beneficials do not chew, pierce, suck on, or otherwise bother the plants. In my experience, this works fairly well, since I still have ladybugs and many other types of insects in my garden. I understand "broad spectrum" to mean killing a wide variety of insects. Do you make no distinction between systemic and contact insecticides? Thank you. |
#5
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Getting Rid of Thrips
What can you do to prevent mildew, blackspot etc? Thanks in advance!
I DO use preventative measures for fungal diseases, as a rule these diseases can not be eradicated once they infect a plant, you can halt the spread but once the damage is done there is no mechanism to remove the black spots, rust, mildew etc. |
#6
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Getting Rid of Thrips
Tim Tompkins wrote:
With the term Broad Spectrum I mean an insecticide that is NON specific, and contact rather than systemic. I see. There's the rub. As I mentioned, I use Orthenex, which is NOT a contact insecticide, but a systemic insecticide, which is why I still have tons of earthworms and ladybugs. Cygon II is also a systemic insectide, but may have an element of contact insecticide in it, I am not sure. You can read about the different Ortho products at Ortho.com. Products such as Orthene are contact insecticides and in my experience and opinion have no systemic or residual characteristics. Orthene and the like are the common products on the shelves of garden centers that most of us are exposed to on a regular basis. I have actually never seen Orthene, but do see Orthenex and Immunox Plus on a regular basis. The more expensive products, at first glance at least, such as Immunox, are usually not offered in the retail trade due to the high initial purchase cost. Not so, I'm afraid. Immunox (just fungicide) and Immunox Plus (fungicide plus systemic insecticide) is sold at all the box stores and garden centers. I do not find Immunox Plus to be nearly as effective for blackspot as Orthenex. I personally don't care for the food based systemic that are applied to the soil as they often destroy the beneficial organisms in the soil, such as earth worms. I have never used this stuff, which I have seen only in granular form. I DO use preventative measures for fungal diseases, as a rule these diseases can not be eradicated once they infect a plant, you can halt the spread but once the damage is done there is no mechanism to remove the black spots, rust, mildew etc. Actually, there are two products that will stop blackspot on the plant once it is present. They both start with an "M" one is Manzeb, I forget the other. I have used it and it works, but I prefer to use preventive measures. Over all, my style is to observe, and be informed about the pathogens that affect our roses. A bit of knowledge is, in my opinion much more affective than a bottle of what ever can be sprayed. The products such as Immunox, Avid, Banner Max that are available through specialty mail order are more cost affective, offer better performance and have fewer draw backs than the general purpose products from the garden center. I also don't keep rose varieties that have disease problems such as Mister Lincoln and Touch of Class. These two are mildew magnets and tend to encourage the disease in the rest of the garden. I love Mister Lincoln, it was my first rose, it just has too many drawbacks, the same for Touch of Class. The bottom line is, 'observation and information' are the most affective tools we have. Tim "Shiva" wrote in message news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.6ac5547c259222a3735116ca857c7569 @1049567828.cotse.net... Tim Tompkins wrote:[...] Thanks for a thoughtful and concise answer, Tim. I will try the Cygon in a small spray bottle when the thrips first appear. By the way, Orthenex and Immunox plus now contain a miticide, and Cygon's (I think it is technically Cygon II)label says that it does too. Please keep in mind that there are MANY beneficial insects that are also killed by the broad spectrum insecticides. I prefer NOT to douse the garden as it eliminated the beneficial. Perhaps you can help me understand how you are using the term "broad spectrum." I like to use liquid (i.e., not granular) SYSTEMIC insecticide, which in my understanding kills only insects that bite or suck the juices of the roses. The opposite, sometimes referred to as CONTACT insecticides apparently kill any insect that comes into contact with it. If I use the former, and not the latter, I do not expect to kill beneficials, because by definition, beneficials do not chew, pierce, suck on, or otherwise bother the plants. In my experience, this works fairly well, since I still have ladybugs and many other types of insects in my garden. I understand "broad spectrum" to mean killing a wide variety of insects. Do you make no distinction between systemic and contact insecticides? Thank you. |
#7
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Getting Rid of Thrips
In aHlwYXRpYQ==.5af854ab6672910298712aa1ab24ec57@104 9495235.cotse.net
Shiva wrote: 1. Is anyone here using this for thrips, spider mites, or anything else? Here is what the site says it kills: "Aphids, mites, codling moths, grasshoppers, plum curculio, pear psylla, scale, leafhoppers, thrips, loopers,Drosophila, lygus bugs, leafminers, flies, olive flies, whiteflies, Hassids, houseflies and many others (8a) Effective against many insect larvae. Moves throughout the plant rapidly. Relatively slow acting against houseflies but with up to 8 weeks residual control. Used to control fly maggots in manure piles." Sounds pretty good to me. It is damn good, Shiva. I use it, although it's widely sold in Australia under a different name (Rogor). Its control of thrips and aphids is perfect. Spider mites don't like it but they are pretty resistant to it. In earlier years I sprayed the infested bushes selectively, which worked but allowed pest colonies to breed on neighbouring bushes, unseen. By spraying all bushes at the first sign of infestation, I have sprayed only twice this season - which is incredibly good. |
#8
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Getting Rid of Thrips
On 07 Apr 2003 21:20:32 GMT, Daniel Hanna
wrote: It is damn good, Shiva. I use it, although it's widely sold in Australia under a different name (Rogor). Daniel, where have you been? It's been forever. I recall your mentioning Rogor, but not that it is the same as Cygon II. Its control of thrips and aphids is perfect. Spider mites don't like it but they are pretty resistant to it. Good to know. I will try it on buds when the thrips start. It is fall there, isn't it now? What have you been up to? In earlier years I sprayed the infested bushes selectively, which worked but allowed pest colonies to breed on neighbouring bushes, unseen. By spraying all bushes at the first sign of infestation, I have sprayed only twice this season - which is incredibly good. The key is early application. I already blew that, but I'll try to make it up. |
#9
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Getting Rid of Thrips
I glad you can find the better products in your local garden center. Most
of them stock what they already know and what is advertised in popular magazines. One of the keys to sucessful insect control is to rotate the products you use. Continued use of a single insecticide usually leads to resistance and loss of controll. Spider mites are NOT an insect and usually not controlled with insecticides, the systemics may help, I just don't like them. Another aspect of the contact insecticides is the effective active period. Many lose their toxicity after a relatively short period. Obviously the systemics don' behave like this. As mentioned previously, early detection and controll are more effective than trying to eliminate a well established infestation. The critters are always out there, we just have to be observant and react with appropriate measures. The fungal diseases are an entirely different matter, prevention is the most powerful control. Find a product or home brew solution that works for your garden and use it regularly. The local soil and water often have a tremendous affect of what works well. If you are in the eastern half of the US, the soil tends to be acidic where in the west it is alkaline. This affects the availability of nutrients in the soil. The pH of the water you use in spray solutions will also impact how well a spary solution works. Indicate is a fairly inexpensive product that gives a visual indication of the pH. I believe the most important messages are observation and education. Look, investigate and make intelligent choices. Tim |
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