Bi-colored shrub roses?
Bert Hyman wrote: We have two 12 year old shrub roses, supposedly "Pink Grootendorst". One has always produced nothing but pale pink blossoms, but the other has always had about 1/4 which are much darker, almost red. Up 'til now I simply assumed that the grafter (these things are built out of grafts, aren't they?) had picked up a few pieces from the wrong pile when he built that plant, but this year I'm starting to see a number of true bi-color blossoms, part pale pink, part dark. Some are perfectly symmetrical, with the "north & south" quadrants one color and the "east & west" the other. What's up with that? -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | Bert, this is a lon.......g link but it shows some color variation also. Maybe it happens. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN Can you copy and paste that into your browser? If not, I found it with Google Images. Joe T |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
(jtill) wrote in
oups.com: Bert, this is a lon.......g link but it shows some color variation also. Maybe it happens. Thanks for the link. The bi-colored shrub looks a lot more interesting than the pure light-pink one, so I'm hoping that whatever it's started doing, it keeps doing. -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
"Bert Hyman" wrote in message
... We have two 12 year old shrub roses, supposedly "Pink Grootendorst". One has always produced nothing but pale pink blossoms, but the other has always had about 1/4 which are much darker, almost red. Up 'til now I simply assumed that the grafter (these things are built out of grafts, aren't they?) had picked up a few pieces from the wrong pile when he built that plant, but this year I'm starting to see a number of true bi-color blossoms, part pale pink, part dark. Some are perfectly symmetrical, with the "north & south" quadrants one color and the "east & west" the other. What's up with that? -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | Old garden roses, miniature roses, and some modern roses aren't grafted. They are what is referred to as "own root". Pink Grootendorst is a Hybrid Rugosa from 1923. I would be tempted to assume your roses are not grafted. You can check visually. Several possibilities for unexpected colors: (1) one of the rose bushes was mislabeled originally (2) roses will sometimes throw out a different color bloom as a natural mutation. Some varieties are produced this way. I have a Variegata di Bologna (Bourbon) that is supposed to be a red/white striped rose, but which regularly produces solid reddish pink blooms as well as the striped blooms. I recall reading somewhere that one of this variety's parents produced a solid bloom, so in my case the odd colored blooms are coming from one of the parents. (3) If your odd colored rose bush was grafted, it could have reverted to the rootstock. But that is probably the least likely explanation. You might check out www.helpmefind.com and look at the photos provided for Pink Grootendorst to see how close the colors come to yours. Gail near San Antonio TX USA Zone 8 |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
Gail Futoran wrote: "Bert Hyman" wrote in message ... We have two 12 year old shrub roses, supposedly "Pink Grootendorst". One has always produced nothing but pale pink blossoms, but the other has always had about 1/4 which are much darker, almost red. Up 'til now I simply assumed that the grafter (these things are built out of grafts, aren't they?) had picked up a few pieces from the wrong pile when he built that plant, but this year I'm starting to see a number of true bi-color blossoms, part pale pink, part dark. Some are perfectly symmetrical, with the "north & south" quadrants one color and the "east & west" the other. What's up with that? -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | Old garden roses, miniature roses, and some modern roses aren't grafted. They are what is referred to as "own root". Pink Grootendorst is a Hybrid Rugosa from 1923. I would be tempted to assume your roses are not grafted. You can check visually. Several possibilities for unexpected colors: (1) one of the rose bushes was mislabeled originally (2) roses will sometimes throw out a different color bloom as a natural mutation. Some varieties are produced this way. I have a Variegata di Bologna (Bourbon) that is supposed to be a red/white striped rose, but which regularly produces solid reddish pink blooms as well as the striped blooms. I recall reading somewhere that one of this variety's parents produced a solid bloom, so in my case the odd colored blooms are coming from one of the parents. (3) If your odd colored rose bush was grafted, it could have reverted to the rootstock. But that is probably the least likely explanation. You might check out www.helpmefind.com and look at the photos provided for Pink Grootendorst to see how close the colors come to yours. Gail near San Antonio TX USA Zone 8 Gail, when I GOOGLED Grootendorst there were many shades of pink, I think much was due to cameras and other factors in the photo rendering. Or, is there that much variation in that cultivar. Joe T |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
"jtill" wrote in message
oups.com... Gail, when I GOOGLED Grootendorst there were many shades of pink, I think much was due to cameras and other factors in the photo rendering. Or, is there that much variation in that cultivar. Joe T Cameras & lighting, photo reproduction, sure, but also cultural differences - time of year, weather (cold, hot, dry, wet), even bloom age (some blooms change color as they age - think Mutabilis) can have some influence on bloom color. Some varieties seem to have the same color(s) no matter what; other varieties seem to have a great deal of variation. I don't have a Pink Grootendorst, so no personal experience. Ain't roses wonderful? :) Gail near San Antonio TX USA Zone 8 |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
(Gail Futoran) wrote in
: (3) If your odd colored rose bush was grafted, it could have reverted to the rootstock. But that is probably the least likely explanation. Thanks for the info, but remember, 3/4 of the bush in question is the same color as the other (and the color a Pink Grootendorst is "supposed" to be). And, it's the recent addition of individual bi-colored blossoms that prompted my post. Still, they -are plants, and they'll do whatever it is that plants do, and I'll just sit back and watch. -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
"Bert Hyman" wrote in message
... (Gail Futoran) wrote in : (3) If your odd colored rose bush was grafted, it could have reverted to the rootstock. But that is probably the least likely explanation. Thanks for the info, but remember, 3/4 of the bush in question is the same color as the other (and the color a Pink Grootendorst is "supposed" to be). And, it's the recent addition of individual bi-colored blossoms that prompted my post. Still, they -are plants, and they'll do whatever it is that plants do, and I'll just sit back and watch. -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | I suspect your Pink Grootenbrost and my Variegata di Bologna are behaving similarly. As I recall my rose produced only or mostly produced the expected striped blooms for the first few years after it was planted (1999), and it was only later that it started producing solid color blooms, basically the reverse of your experience. Maybe your rose and mine are "reverting" back to one of their parents. I've read that can happen. But that's a genetic process as I vaguely understand it, not a function of the grafting or seeding or whatever process produced your specific plant. The American Rose Society has articles on progagating roses, which might be of interest. www.ars.org Read down the front page until you see the underlined word Articles. Those are in the public area so you don't have to be a member to access them. Gail near San Antonio TX USA Zone 8 |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
Gail Futoran wrote: "Bert Hyman" wrote in message ... (Gail Futoran) wrote in : (3) If your odd colored rose bush was grafted, it could have reverted to the rootstock. But that is probably the least likely explanation. Thanks for the info, but remember, 3/4 of the bush in question is the same color as the other (and the color a Pink Grootendorst is "supposed" to be). And, it's the recent addition of individual bi-colored blossoms that prompted my post. Still, they -are plants, and they'll do whatever it is that plants do, and I'll just sit back and watch. -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | I suspect your Pink Grootenbrost and my Variegata di Bologna are behaving similarly. As I recall my rose produced only or mostly produced the expected striped blooms for the first few years after it was planted (1999), and it was only later that it started producing solid color blooms, basically the reverse of your experience. Maybe your rose and mine are "reverting" back to one of their parents. I've read that can happen. But that's a genetic process as I vaguely understand it, not a function of the grafting or seeding or whatever process produced your specific plant. The American Rose Society has articles on progagating roses, which might be of interest. www.ars.org Read down the front page until you see the underlined word Articles. Those are in the public area so you don't have to be a member to access them. Gail near San Antonio TX USA Zone 8 Hey Gail, that was timely information, I just got back from Arkansas with a bunch of rose cuttings from the cemetary where my Grand Parents are buried. I have half a dozen and have them soaking in a bleach, Physan, and root stimulator solution and will set them out today. I used that link to read the instructions again. I always hold the cuttings under water and re-cut them as I have read that when cut in air the capillary action sucks air into them blocking the tubes. Should I ever get these to bloom maybe you can help identify them. One is a small pink, the others, who knows. They are all old, probably from cutting traded for years so they could be 50 years old or more. Hope I have a red and a white! Wouldn't that be great! Joe T Baytown |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
jtill wrote: Gail Futoran wrote: "Bert Hyman" wrote in message ... (Gail Futoran) wrote in : (3) If your odd colored rose bush was grafted, it could have reverted to the rootstock. But that is probably the least likely explanation. Thanks for the info, but remember, 3/4 of the bush in question is the same color as the other (and the color a Pink Grootendorst is "supposed" to be). And, it's the recent addition of individual bi-colored blossoms that prompted my post. Still, they -are plants, and they'll do whatever it is that plants do, and I'll just sit back and watch. -- Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | I suspect your Pink Grootenbrost and my Variegata di Bologna are behaving similarly. As I recall my rose produced only or mostly produced the expected striped blooms for the first few years after it was planted (1999), and it was only later that it started producing solid color blooms, basically the reverse of your experience. Maybe your rose and mine are "reverting" back to one of their parents. I've read that can happen. But that's a genetic process as I vaguely understand it, not a function of the grafting or seeding or whatever process produced your specific plant. The American Rose Society has articles on progagating roses, which might be of interest. www.ars.org Read down the front page until you see the underlined word Articles. Those are in the public area so you don't have to be a member to access them. Gail near San Antonio TX USA Zone 8 Hey Gail, that was timely information, I just got back from Arkansas with a bunch of rose cuttings from the cemetary where my Grand Parents are buried. I have half a dozen and have them soaking in a bleach, Physan, and root stimulator solution and will set them out today. I used that link to read the instructions again. I always hold the cuttings under water and re-cut them as I have read that when cut in air the capillary action sucks air into them blocking the tubes. Should I ever get these to bloom maybe you can help identify them. One is a small pink, the others, who knows. They are all old, probably from cutting traded for years so they could be 50 years old or more. Hope I have a red and a white! Wouldn't that be great! Joe T Baytown |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
"jtill" wrote in message
oups.com... Hey Gail, that was timely information, I just got back from Arkansas with a bunch of rose cuttings from the cemetary where my Grand Parents are buried. I have half a dozen and have them soaking in a bleach, Physan, and root stimulator solution and will set them out today. I used that link to read the instructions again. I always hold the cuttings under water and re-cut them as I have read that when cut in air the capillary action sucks air into them blocking the tubes. Should I ever get these to bloom maybe you can help identify them. One is a small pink, the others, who knows. They are all old, probably from cutting traded for years so they could be 50 years old or more. Hope I have a red and a white! Wouldn't that be great! Joe T Baytown Sounds like a neat project. Identifying - well, that's another kettle of fish. I have a pink someone gave me as a cutting that was growing in her mother- in-law's yard. They'd cut it down to ground level several time and the rose kept coming back. I've had this rose for 8 years and I still don't know what it is. :) Gail |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
Gail Futoran wrote: "jtill" wrote in message oups.com... Hey Gail, that was timely information, I just got back from Arkansas with a bunch of rose cuttings from the cemetary where my Grand Parents are buried. I have half a dozen and have them soaking in a bleach, Physan, and root stimulator solution and will set them out today. I used that link to read the instructions again. I always hold the cuttings under water and re-cut them as I have read that when cut in air the capillary action sucks air into them blocking the tubes. Should I ever get these to bloom maybe you can help identify them. One is a small pink, the others, who knows. They are all old, probably from cutting traded for years so they could be 50 years old or more. Hope I have a red and a white! Wouldn't that be great! Joe T Baytown Sounds like a neat project. Identifying - well, that's another kettle of fish. I have a pink someone gave me as a cutting that was growing in her mother- in-law's yard. They'd cut it down to ground level several time and the rose kept coming back. I've had this rose for 8 years and I still don't know what it is. :) Gail I will be in the same boat probably. Joet |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
"jtill" wrote in message
oups.com... Gail Futoran wrote: "jtill" wrote in message oups.com... Hey Gail, that was timely information, I just got back from Arkansas with a bunch of rose cuttings from the cemetary where my Grand Parents are buried. I have half a dozen and have them soaking in a bleach, Physan, and root stimulator solution and will set them out today. I used that link to read the instructions again. I always hold the cuttings under water and re-cut them as I have read that when cut in air the capillary action sucks air into them blocking the tubes. Should I ever get these to bloom maybe you can help identify them. One is a small pink, the others, who knows. They are all old, probably from cutting traded for years so they could be 50 years old or more. Hope I have a red and a white! Wouldn't that be great! Joe T Baytown Sounds like a neat project. Identifying - well, that's another kettle of fish. I have a pink someone gave me as a cutting that was growing in her mother- in-law's yard. They'd cut it down to ground level several time and the rose kept coming back. I've had this rose for 8 years and I still don't know what it is. :) Gail I will be in the same boat probably. Joet Antique Rose Emporium carries some "found" and "rustled" roses. It might be worth a visit to their Brenham store once your rescued roses start blooming. http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/findus.html [Apologies if you already know all that, Joe!] Gail near San Antonio TX Zone 8 USA |
Bi-colored shrub roses?
Gail Futoran wrote: "jtill" wrote in message oups.com... Gail Futoran wrote: "jtill" wrote in message oups.com... Hey Gail, that was timely information, I just got back from Arkansas with a bunch of rose cuttings from the cemetary where my Grand Parents are buried. I have half a dozen and have them soaking in a bleach, Physan, and root stimulator solution and will set them out today. I used that link to read the instructions again. I always hold the cuttings under water and re-cut them as I have read that when cut in air the capillary action sucks air into them blocking the tubes. Should I ever get these to bloom maybe you can help identify them. One is a small pink, the others, who knows. They are all old, probably from cutting traded for years so they could be 50 years old or more. Hope I have a red and a white! Wouldn't that be great! Joe T Baytown Sounds like a neat project. Identifying - well, that's another kettle of fish. I have a pink someone gave me as a cutting that was growing in her mother- in-law's yard. They'd cut it down to ground level several time and the rose kept coming back. I've had this rose for 8 years and I still don't know what it is. :) Gail I will be in the same boat probably. Joet Antique Rose Emporium carries some "found" and "rustled" roses. It might be worth a visit to their Brenham store once your rescued roses start blooming. http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/findus.html [Apologies if you already know all that, Joe!] Gail near San Antonio TX Zone 8 USA Thanks Gail. I have been there several times and should I get blooms will photo and go again got ID. Joe T |
roses will sometimes bandy out a altered color bloom as a accustomed mutation. Some varieties are produced this way. I accept a Variegata di Bologna (Bourbon) that is declared to be a red/white striped rose, but which consistently produces solid brownish pink blooms as able-bodied as the striped blooms.
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