My almost 50 year old rose has large blossoms but the stems are so thin,
that the blossoms cannot stand upright. Located in hot valley near Los
Angeles, CA.

This rose I call a rose tree, all leaves stems blossoms grow on top of
the 4 foot stem.

I feed regularly with a systemic food by BAYER company. Sun exposure is
about 5 hours per day.

Are weak stems a symtom of old roses or is there
something I can do to cause stronger stems?

Thank you, Dave

In article , David Shalita
wrote:

My almost 50 year old rose has large blossoms but the stems are so thin,
that the blossoms cannot stand upright. Located in hot valley near Los
Angeles, CA.

This rose I call a rose tree, all leaves stems blossoms grow on top of
the 4 foot stem.

This is called a rose standard or a tree rose.

I feed regularly with a systemic food by BAYER company. Sun exposure is
about 5 hours per day.

Five hours is getting on the low side of optimal, tho in a hot climate,
it could be perfect, especially if the 5 hours starts in the morning.

Are weak stems a symtom of old roses or is there
something I can do to cause stronger stems?

Dave, some varieties of old (really old) roses have thin stems. They
are best used so the plant grows taller than you, so the flowers are
allowed to "nod" down at you. This can be quite beautiful.

OTOH, some roses just suffer from "weak necks," where the stems don't
support the weight of the bloom, but you wish it would! If your roses
is well-watered and well-fed, you might just have a rose with weak
necks.

"David Shalita" wrote in message
...
My almost 50 year old rose has large blossoms but the stems are so thin,
that the blossoms cannot stand upright. Located in hot valley near Los
Angeles, CA.

This rose I call a rose tree, all leaves stems blossoms grow on top of
the 4 foot stem.

I feed regularly with a systemic food by BAYER company. Sun exposure is
about 5 hours per day.

Are weak stems a symtom of old roses or is there
something I can do to cause stronger stems?

Thank you, Dave

Hello Dave,

Lets start from the beginning he do you know what
kind of rose do you have? Some roses are "nodders",
this meaning that the blooms are bigger than what the
stem can properly hold up. In the old roses there are
several varieties that will comfortably fit this bill, and
that will make the difference between a lack of vigor
because they are suffering from malnutrition (seldom
the case to my limited knowledge) or because it is
a natural predisposition of the plant to behave as it
has been genetically programmed to do.

Any chance of you getting a photo here for us to
take a look at your rose? If you have a digital camera
and can post it, I am sure we can figure between all
of us what gives there. Some of David Austin new
roses have a tendency to have "weak necks" and
that in fact do not detract from their beauty. When
they reach an above your head height and the slightest
breeze moves them, you forget all about their looking
into the ground, they are so beautiful. But I can
understand why you would want to know.

I would suggest that in the feeding department you
may want to simply get a couple of bags of Whitney's
steer manure and some alfalfa pellets from a feed store
-not the one with sugar added but the straight for the
rabbits pellets- and mulch your rose with some nice
spadesful of manure and then a couple of handfuls
of alfalfa. You can put some fine barkdust on top of
it. The reason for this is because I have found that
this has helped many of my roses grow some really
healthy basals. Once you have a couple of those
coming from the base of the plant, you may be able
to find out if the rose nods because it is supposed to
or because it needs to be regenerated by pruning.

Good luck, and although there is nothing wrong with
Bayer products, an old rose seems to respond better
to "natural" food than to chemical one. I cannot explain
that one scientifically but some of my twenty and some
year old roses always were happier in my old garden
with that mixture than even with the professional growers
food I used to get from Teuffels. Go figure!

Allegra

Thank you for your reply and info.

My almost 50 year old tree rose has large blossoms but the stems are so thin,
that the blossoms cannot stand upright. Located in hot valley near Los
Angeles, CA.

Hello Dave,

Lets start from the beginning he do you know what
kind of rose do you have?

No, it came with the house.

Some roses are "nodders",
this meaning that the blooms are bigger than what the
stem can properly hold up.

I am positive that this nodding has occurred gradually and worsened
recently. Blossoms used to stand upright on very adequate diameter
stems.


Any chance of you getting a photo here for us to
take a look at your rose?

I have a digital camera but do not have a web page to place jpg image.
Can you suggest where can I post the picture?



I would suggest that in the feeding department you
may want to simply get a couple of bags of Whitney's
steer manure and some alfalfa pellets from a feed store
-not the one with sugar added but the straight for the
rabbits pellets- and mulch your rose with some nice
spadesful of manure and then a couple of handfuls
of alfalfa.

Ok on the alternate feeding scheme.

If I stop using the BAYER systemic feed, and use Whitney's steer plus
alphalpha, swarms of aphids will again attack this rose. Can you suggest
an alternate method to system feed to control aphids?


Thank you all for your help.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Well, lets first take a look at the patient.
You can email a photo to



and I will be happy to post a link to it
for everyone to take a look at your rose.

I don't know what could cause the "weak
neck" syndrome until I can see what it looks
like, and then I may not be able to tell you
either, but a photo is worth a thousand...

As for the feed, I have no idea how Bayer
food works with or against the aphids. I have
never had the problem here that you are mentioning.
I guess aphids are not welcome in Oregon
(I wish I could say the same for fungi) and
what little I have encountered I have sprayed
with the hose first and Safer soap after with
good results. But perhaps you could chance
a visit by the darn things in order to give the
rose an opportunity to throw some basals your
way.

Send the photo and we will post it and then
lets see if it is a matter of canes too long,
weak neck or simply age. I am sure someone
is going to chime in with the right answer or
at least everyone here would try.

Allegra

"Allegra" wrote in message news:iLona.241753$Zo.48320@sccrnsc03...
Hello Dave,

Well, lets first take a look at the patient.
You can email a photo to



and I will be happy to post a link to it
for everyone to take a look at your rose.

Thank you very much.

Embarrased to say, currently the bush
has no blossoms forming.
Early this week, I cut off the last blossom
just before I sent the latest mailnote.
Would you like a photo of the rose
even though it has no blossoms now?
Or, should I wait until new blossoms open?

But perhaps you could chance
a visit by the [aphids] in order to give the
rose an opportunity to throw some basals your
way.

Where can I see examples of rose forming basals?
Looking for examples both for my tree rose and
my bush roses.



Allegra
Thank you, Dave

David Shalita wrote:
Some roses are "nodders",
this meaning that the blooms are bigger than what the
stem can properly hold up.

I am positive that this nodding has occurred gradually and worsened
recently. Blossoms used to stand upright on very adequate diameter
stems.

Just a thought...

If it's getting worse and if (as you say) it's getting about 5 hours of
direct sun a day, is it possible that the shade has gotten worse over
the years. That is, when it goes into shade, is it being shaded by
trees that are growing larger, thereby increasing their shade,
shortening the duration of direct sun? Is it possible to prune (or cut
down) whatever is causing the shade?

Of course, if it is the house or some structure, then that's not the
answer, unless you can move either the rose or the house ;-).

As for a picture, I'd wait until you have another bloom and send one to
Allegra to post.

--
Henry

Hello Dave,

Yes, it will help to see both the shape of the rose
and how the bloom "hangs" from the stem.

Dr. M. Manners -I am one of his biggest fans-
has a very intelligent and easy to read site
with a detailed explanation about the anatomy
of a rose plant. It makes for good and easy
reading and obviously he is an excellent teacher
as even those of us who think we know it all
when it comes to roses, keep on learning from
people like him.

In case you are not familiar with his site here
is a link, and I am sure you will find what you
want to know about basals by perusing through
his informative papers.

When the rose blooms again, just send the photo
and I will be happy to post it. And what Henry
said has validity. If the roses are reaching for light
or sun, it is not too unlikely that their "necks" will
stretch beyond their usual length thus producing
a longer but weaker one, and the normal weight
of the bloom will naturally result in nodding.

Let us know how things are with your roses,
and good luck with the aphids. Blast them!
literally ;)

Allegra

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