In article , Mike
wrote:

I'm in South Central Texas, so I'm sure the garlic will grow up north. I
think it's ugly next to roses. It's just big green stalks, like fat, tall
grass. The stalks tend to flop over in wind or rain, too. Sloppy. My Dad
plants them right next to roses, inches away, on two sides. It looks
pretty bad sticking up through his rose bushes. I can't tell him nuthin',
though. He swears by it.

There is an ornamental garlic that grows all curly. I think it's really
cool. That said, my impression is that all that companion plant stuff
is bunk. Aphids like nice cuddly conditions. The roses on my patio
protected by a wall get aphids. Those out in the gale suffer much less.

Another point: washing off aphids is an exercise in washing the little
beasts off far enough so they can't climb back up to the tender new
growth. So don't wash them off one rose and onto another (which I've
done), and make sure you wash them far enough away.

In Mike wrote:
Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the
strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your
treasures.

That seems a valid theory to me. Then again, I underplant lavender
between my roses. It's supposed to have the same masking effect, but my
bushes still get infested.

This year the pests been far fewer than in previous years, but I
attribute that to a better spraying program this season. I say this
because my 'picking' bed at the back of my house is not underplanted
with anything - it suffers no more or less from pests than my display
bed which have lavender.

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Ya'll are very helpful and you seem to know your stuff. I have learned
alot and will be trying this and that. If i see something work i will
report back so you can help others with my findings. I have this yummy
garlic, soap, oil, thing i am going to try on a small area and see if
the foilage drops dead or not and what the reaction of the aphids are.
I have a cat and dog and toads and i just can't use poison. I have a
couple of times, but had to keep the animals inside and it was just a
hassle. They eat grass, too, so..

Thanks so much. I am not dropping this group just yet, but these were
my only problems and i wouldn't want to instigate a lot of OT talk, so
take care and i won't hesitate to come back when i have something rose
related to discuss.

juls is my name, jammer is my usenet name, i go by either.




On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:08:17 GMT, Mike wrote:

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, (Shiva) wrote:

This is interesting, Mike, and I think goof evidence that allium might
indeed repel them. What else does your father do, do you know? Hard
sprays of water, etc? That is the only other question I would ask.

He doesn't deliberately blast with the hose to wash off aphids. But I know
he doesn't believe that you have to avoid getting the foliage wet. He
thinks I'm ridiculous for going to "all that trouble" when I water. He says
things like "what do you think happens when it rains?" and "do you think
water is bad for roses?" When he waters his roses, the whole plant gets
wet. He waters most of his roses with sprinklers that are installed around
his beds, which shouldn't bother the aphids, but he does use the hose to
get to plants that are not within the sprinklers range.

Another thing that is interesting (if you think of the "smelly theory"
presented by the two universities) is he mixes up his own concoction to
keep deer away. It consists of putrefied eggs, tabasco sauce and vinegar.
He soaks little rags in it and places these around each of his roses. Maybe
that stench keeps the pests away just as well as the alliums would? He made
me take a big whiff and I about tossed my cookies. I almost can now just
with the memory. Urp.

He never does. Field Roebuck appears to think one should accept
anything he says just because he says it. When challenged, one is
presented with the "fact" that this man has written a BOOK. He has
been wrong on so many counts, and has claimed so many patently false
things, I tend to discount everything he has to say.

That's funny because if you've ever been to his website, he devotes a large
portion of it to discrediting "The Dirt Doctor." He basically says the same
things about that guy that you just said about him. g I love irony.

This is neat! But isn't the wild garlic that grows all over my
property an allium too? It springs up beside my roses everywhere, and
when I pull it the bulbs rarely come up.

I don't know, I haven't come across wild garlic here - wild carrots, but no
wild garlic. Wild carrots won't give up their root easily, either. I would
guess if it's garlic, it's an allium. Is it stinky? Those two studies said
it was the smell of alliums that do the work of repelling pests. No
stinkee, no workee, maybe? I also came across a page today where a PhD at
UC Davis said that the allium companion planting idea was very localized -
that you have to have these plants real close to every rose in order for it
to be an effective control. She seemed to think that it wasn't a very
practical idea. She preferred another companion planting idea where you
plant things that ATTRACT pests in a location away from your roses and then
kill them there. Jeez - the exact opposite strategy!

I guess it all boils down to "it depends on who you ask." So I suppose the
only real answer is try it if you want, and if you are happy with results,
hooray for you.

I love the way this group forces me to do research!

We appreciate it, too, Mike. Thanks.

It's a good thing. It helps me make up my own mind about all this
information where you can find just as many people on both sides of the
fence.

.did I just channel Martha Stewart? *shudder*

Mike
z8TX

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On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:08:17 GMT, Mike wrote:



He doesn't deliberately blast with the hose to wash off aphids. But I know
he doesn't believe that you have to avoid getting the foliage wet. He
thinks I'm ridiculous for going to "all that trouble" when I water. He says
things like "what do you think happens when it rains?" and "do you think
water is bad for roses?" When he waters his roses, the whole plant gets
wet. He waters most of his roses with sprinklers that are installed around
his beds, which shouldn't bother the aphids, but he does use the hose to
get to plants that are not within the sprinklers range.

I am SO with your Dad on this! Mack once said that deliberately
avoiding the foliage of a rose was like taking a shower but only
getting your feet wet. It is unnatural to NOT wash down the roses, I
don't care what "conventional wisdom" says, or what "everybody knows."
One caveat--I of course observe an anti-fungal spray program, so that
takes care of the black spot. The water washes away so many baddies!


Urp.

I have heard of your Dad's smelly, eggy, anti-deer concoction! Good to
know it works!

He never does. Field Roebuck appears to think one should accept
anything he says just because he says it. When challenged, one is
presented with the "fact" that this man has written a BOOK. He has
been wrong on so many counts, and has claimed so many patently false
things, I tend to discount everything he has to say.

That's funny because if you've ever been to his website, he devotes a large
portion of it to discrediting "The Dirt Doctor." He basically says the same
things about that guy that you just said about him. g I love irony.

G Any idiot who got past the eighth grade knows that you cite
sources, whether you are a scientist or a fiction writer or whatever,
when you are making claims. "This is what I do" is just fine. But "DO
THIS because I said so is stupid, and Roebuck does it all the time. He
is one of those who insist that use of Orthenex over time creates an
infestation of spider mites--never mind that I have never seen them in
my garden save on one plant that brought them from the nursery. His
anti-chem agenda is more annoying than enlightening. Unlike your
efforts, I must say.



I don't know, I haven't come across wild garlic here - wild carrots, but no
wild garlic. Wild carrots won't give up their root easily, either. I would
guess if it's garlic, it's an allium. Is it stinky?

Yep! It smells like the garlic I cook with! Long green grassy leaves
that look like chives before you dice them. I suppose it is wild
garlic? It is everywhere at the moment. I keep a messy garden, I'm
afraid. More on that topic in a minute.





T

It's a good thing. It helps me make up my own mind about all this
information where you can find just as many people on both sides of the
fence.

.did I just channel Martha Stewart? *shudder*

*sprinkling Holy water all around and fashioning a garlic necklace
just for you*

G




Mike
z8TX

Well i sprayed my rose bushes with dish soap and water. The aphids are
very few now. On my 3 bushes i have 68 roses. It is so pretty, i will
try to get a pic. Too bad we don't have smell vision. The scent is
intoxicating.

I don't know if i will worry about the black spot for a while. Heck,
they have had it for 3-4 yrs. The roses are gorgeous and the plants
have grown 3 feet in a month. For the same reason, i haven't planned
to mulch either. If i ever counted all the roses in one season from
those it would be in the thousands. I gets hundreds a week.

Rock on