Hi,
I just waded through 5000+ posts before posting this, so be kind

I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control
aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell
aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill
the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i
harm my roses trying this...?

I also learned about poisons and picking off affected leaves, watering
from the bottom, and removing debri for blackspot. My black spot is on
the stems/canes/stalks themselvesas well as the leaves. But my roses i
would put up against any gorgeous yummy smelling rose. I could never
destroy a plant that gives me such beauty! So i live with it, even
though it is rather icky looking sometimes. There isn't any companion
planting for this is there? (doubt it) I tried a few kinds of poisons
but i really hate poison and don't use it as a rule. I have pets and
toads in the yard. Will a mulch help black spot?

I have some cypress mulch and summer here in zone 7, north Texas gets
mighty hot. I have not mulched in the past and maybe it's one of those
if it aint broke, dont fix it type things, but i wondered if there was
a bagged mulch that would further beautify the roses, or repell some
of the bad guys.

I cut my 4 ft bushes down to 1 ft this year. They have SO many buds
right now! On three bushes i got about 100 roses a week last year from
May-frost. So once they start, i can count on them being there for the
next 7 months. I do not know what kind they are, but are three
different colors and scents.

Thanks, juls

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, jammer wrote:
Hi,
I just waded through 5000+ posts before posting this, so be kind

I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control
aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell
aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill
the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i
harm my roses trying this...?

I also learned about poisons and picking off affected leaves, watering
from the bottom, and removing debri for blackspot. My black spot is on
the stems/canes/stalks themselvesas well as the leaves. But my roses i
would put up against any gorgeous yummy smelling rose. I could never
destroy a plant that gives me such beauty! So i live with it, even
though it is rather icky looking sometimes. There isn't any companion
planting for this is there? (doubt it) I tried a few kinds of poisons
but i really hate poison and don't use it as a rule. I have pets and
toads in the yard. Will a mulch help black spot?

I have some cypress mulch and summer here in zone 7, north Texas gets
mighty hot. I have not mulched in the past and maybe it's one of those
if it aint broke, dont fix it type things, but i wondered if there was
a bagged mulch that would further beautify the roses, or repell some
of the bad guys.

I cut my 4 ft bushes down to 1 ft this year. They have SO many buds
right now! On three bushes i got about 100 roses a week last year from
May-frost. So once they start, i can count on them being there for the
next 7 months. I do not know what kind they are, but are three
different colors and scents.

Thanks, juls

Hi Juls,

Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel
aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control blackspot
and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that.

I don't know of any mulch that will repel pests. I'd recommend mulching
anyway, particularly here in Texas. It will help keep your roses happy
during our hot summers and you'll also be improving the soil.

Spraying aphids with a mild soap and water solution is Gramma's old control
for aphids, and she seemed to be happy with the results. Your mixture
sounds a little strong, though. Have you heard of the Cornell formula? It's
the same idea - it smothers the little boogers. It also has the added
benefit of controlling fungal diseases. You can find the recipe easily on
the Web by doing a search for "Cornell formula" and it's cheap and easy to
make and use. It's basically horticultural oil, soap, baking soda and
water. The only thing you'd probably have to go out and buy is the
Ultra-Fine horticultural oil. Any nursery or garden center should have it.

Good luck,

Mike
z8TX

jammer wrote:

I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control
aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell
aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill
the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i
harm my roses trying this...?

Fourteen cups dishwashing detergent to one quart water? Let's see, 4
cups to a quart, so that is three-and-a-half quarts detergent plus one
quart water? Why bother diluting water with the detergent g?

Juls, seriously, that formula sounds dangerous to throw on roses. Here
is a recipe that contains dish soap that you might find useful, and it
does not strike me as particularly dangerous to roses unless the weather
gets too hot (oil can cause phototoxicity to leaves if the temperatures
rise above 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit):

1 tsp. dish soap
1 liter of water
1 tsp. vegetable oil

This URL has some other information besides that (they use something
they call seaspray kelp here with which I am not familiar, so I omitted
it in what I excerpted in the above recipe):

http://www.urbangreenery.com/project010102.php


--
Radika
California
USDA 9 / Sunset 15

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:07:08 -0500, jammer wrote:

Hi,

Oh GOOD GRIEF. That is 1/4 cup of dish soap!

Thank you both very much.



On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:33:48 -0700, Radika Kesavan
wrote:

jammer wrote:

I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control
aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell
aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill
the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i
harm my roses trying this...?

Fourteen cups dishwashing detergent to one quart water? Let's see, 4
cups to a quart, so that is three-and-a-half quarts detergent plus one
quart water? Why bother diluting water with the detergent g?

Juls, seriously, that formula sounds dangerous to throw on roses. Here
is a recipe that contains dish soap that you might find useful, and it
does not strike me as particularly dangerous to roses unless the weather
gets too hot (oil can cause phototoxicity to leaves if the temperatures
rise above 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit):

1 tsp. dish soap
1 liter of water
1 tsp. vegetable oil

This URL has some other information besides that (they use something
they call seaspray kelp here with which I am not familiar, so I omitted
it in what I excerpted in the above recipe):

http://www.urbangreenery.com/project010102.php

In Mike wrote:
Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel
aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control
blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that.

I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in
particular can attract black aphids.

On 17 Apr 2003 22:38:01 GMT, Daniel Hanna
wrote:

Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel
aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control
blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that.

I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in
particular can attract black aphids.

There seems to be great contraversy about this! I find one site that
says yes and the next says no. It's 50/50 so i haven't a freakin' clue
as to if it would be worth the time and expense. I really think i will
try soap solutions before anything else, as far as aphids. I sprayed
them off last night and the tips are covered again today. They are
working on the new buds, darn it.

On 17 Apr 2003, Daniel Hanna wrote:
In Mike wrote:
Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel
aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control
blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that.

I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in
particular can attract black aphids.

Hi Daniel,

Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either
side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. I knew I had read
somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as
companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this:

On page 61 of "Fool Proof Guide to Growing Roses," Field Roebuck states:
"Claims for the benefits of growing alliums with roses have been at least
partially tested and found to have some merit. For reasons largely
unexplained, the edible alliums - garlic, chives, garlic chives and onions
- have demonstrated varying degress of effectiveness against aphids and
spider mites. And, in at least one controlled experiment, when planted
underneath roses, garlic chives completely eliminated spider mites and
significantly reduced the aphid population."

He didn't mention what study/where, so I did a search on the web for
study/aphids/alliums/roses and found mention of two studies done by
Universities here in the US.

University of Rhode Island:

http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/compplant.html

Cornell University:

http://www.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/g...c/complant.htm

Unlike Mr. Roebuck, who stated it is unknown how alliums repel pests, both
these universities state that these companion plantings work by disguising
the smell of the roses. Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the
strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures.
However, I don't know how that would rid an already infected rose of spider
mites, as Mr. Roebuck claims in his book. Your claim of aphids being
attracted to chives would also seem to suggest that it would only further
tempt the little stem-suckers and make the problem worse.

This requires more research than I'm willing to do at 11:00pm. I know Dad -
who lives one street behind me - doesn't have to spray for aphids or spider
mites. I just think those sloppy stalks on either side of all his rose
bushes are quite unattractive (ugly!) Ultra-Fine works great for me.
Jammer/Juls (btw: if you're reading this - which do you prefer?) asked if
there were companion plants that repelled pests and I was offering him
Dad's little trick.

I love the way this group forces me to do research!

Mike
z8TX

Hi Mike,
I am still lurking...

I appreciated this post. You ask what i prefer? Well I have used
niether. I was the original poster. They are ugly, huh? I don't even
know if they will grow in hell. I mean north Texas..But i did read
everything else about garlic and I would plant it in the fall. Or
maybe that is only for harvesting the garlic. ? (I do like garlic but
would forego that to have less aphids!) So i have months to consider
it. I would try your Ultra Fine, but i don't like poisons for a
variety of reasons. So......I am going to see if water, soap, and oil
work first. I will let you all know.




On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 05:01:32 GMT, Mike wrote:


Hi Daniel,

Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either
side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. I knew I had read
somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as
companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this:

On page 61 of "Fool Proof Guide to Growing Roses," Field Roebuck states:
"Claims for the benefits of growing alliums with roses have been at least
partially tested and found to have some merit. For reasons largely
unexplained, the edible alliums - garlic, chives, garlic chives and onions
- have demonstrated varying degress of effectiveness against aphids and
spider mites. And, in at least one controlled experiment, when planted
underneath roses, garlic chives completely eliminated spider mites and
significantly reduced the aphid population."

He didn't mention what study/where, so I did a search on the web for
study/aphids/alliums/roses and found mention of two studies done by
Universities here in the US.

University of Rhode Island:

http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/compplant.html

Cornell University:

http://www.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/g...c/complant.htm

Unlike Mr. Roebuck, who stated it is unknown how alliums repel pests, both
these universities state that these companion plantings work by disguising
the smell of the roses. Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the
strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures.
However, I don't know how that would rid an already infected rose of spider
mites, as Mr. Roebuck claims in his book. Your claim of aphids being
attracted to chives would also seem to suggest that it would only further
tempt the little stem-suckers and make the problem worse.

This requires more research than I'm willing to do at 11:00pm. I know Dad -
who lives one street behind me - doesn't have to spray for aphids or spider
mites. I just think those sloppy stalks on either side of all his rose
bushes are quite unattractive (ugly!) Ultra-Fine works great for me.
Jammer/Juls (btw: if you're reading this - which do you prefer?) asked if
there were companion plants that repelled pests and I was offering him
Dad's little trick.

I love the way this group forces me to do research!

Mike
z8TX

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, jammer wrote:
Hi Mike,
I am still lurking...

I appreciated this post. You ask what i prefer? Well I have used
niether. I was the original poster. They are ugly, huh? I don't even
know if they will grow in hell. I mean north Texas..But i did read
everything else about garlic and I would plant it in the fall. Or
maybe that is only for harvesting the garlic. ? (I do like garlic but
would forego that to have less aphids!) So i have months to consider
it. I would try your Ultra Fine, but i don't like poisons for a
variety of reasons. So......I am going to see if water, soap, and oil
work first. I will let you all know.


Hi Jammer,

I meant what do you prefer between Jammer or Juls, because your first post
was Juls - but I see it's been Jammer ever since, so I'll go with that. Now
watch, - that'll be wrong. g

I'm in South Central Texas, so I'm sure the garlic will grow up north. I
think it's ugly next to roses. It's just big green stalks, like fat, tall
grass. The stalks tend to flop over in wind or rain, too. Sloppy. My Dad
plants them right next to roses, inches away, on two sides. It looks
pretty bad sticking up through his rose bushes. I can't tell him nuthin',
though. He swears by it.

Mike
z8TX

Hey Jammer Black spot control(not elimination)

is an year round activity.

Now that I've scared you let me add
that it's work but for those gorgeous
flowers its not much.

The big one is spraying with lime-sulphur
twice in winter. Strip leaves and generally
clean up before and after spray.

Then prevention is the watch word.
Use the Cornell formula and spray
after every rain when the temp is below 90F.

This way I never see BS till August and even
then it is small localized patches.

Oh! did I forget. Please MULCH.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"jammer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:07:08 -0500, jammer wrote:

Hi,

Oh GOOD GRIEF. That is 1/4 cup of dish soap!

Mike wrote:
On 17 Apr 2003, Daniel Hanna wrote:
In Mike wrote:
Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel
aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control
blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that.

I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in
particular can attract black aphids.

Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either
side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. I knew I had read
somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as
companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this:

Moving away from companion plants for a moment...

In the past I've used Green Lacewing (Chrysoperla carnea) larva to
control aphids. You can buy them from various places (I bought them at
http://www.gardensalive.com/ which is not a cheep place to shop but they
may not be any cheeper elsewhere). You buy lacewings as eggs (which are
almost a powder, they are so small) that you spread around your garden,
particularly under rose bushes. Gardens Alive sells 1,000 eggs for $12
or 3,000 which they deliver in batches of 1,000 over a four week period
for $33.

Some of my roses get absolutely covered with aphids and after a single
order by 1,000 lacewing eggs they were totally gone within a week. Of
course, two weeks later they were covered again. The last few years
I've just spent an afternoon removing them by hand (I get an odd sort of
joy out of squishing them). But I can recommend lacewings for aphid
control if you are willing to spend the money.

--
Henry

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 05:01:32 GMT, Mike wrote:



Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either
side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites.

This is interesting, Mike, and I think goof evidence that allium might
indeed repel them. What else does your father do, do you know? Hard
sprays of water, etc? That is the only other question I would ask.



I knew I had read
somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as
companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this:

On page 61 of "Fool Proof Guide to Growing Roses," Field Roebuck states:
.....

He didn't mention what study/where


He never does. Field Roebuck appears to think one should accept
anything he says just because he says it. When challenged, one is
presented with the "fact" that this man has written a BOOK. He has
been wrong on so many counts, and has claimed so many patently false
things, I tend to discount everything he has to say.



, so I did a search on the web for
study/aphids/alliums/roses and found mention of two studies done by
Universities here in the US.

University of Rhode Island:

http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/compplant.html

Cornell University:

http://www.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/g...c/complant.htm

Unlike Mr. Roebuck, who stated it is unknown how alliums repel pests, both
these universities state that these companion plantings work by disguising
the smell of the roses.


This is neat! But isn't the wild garlic that grows all over my
property an allium too? It springs up beside my roses everywhere, and
when I pull it the bulbs rarely come up.


Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the
strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures.
However, I don't know how that would rid an already infected rose of spider
mites, as Mr. Roebuck claims in his book. Your claim of aphids being
attracted to chives would also seem to suggest that it would only further
tempt the little stem-suckers and make the problem worse.

[..]

I love the way this group forces me to do research!

We appreciate it, too, Mike. Thanks.

Mike
z8TX

jammer writes:

There seems to be great contraversy about this! I find one site that
says yes and the next says no. It's 50/50 so i haven't a freakin' clue
as to if it would be worth the time and expense. I really think i will
try soap solutions before anything else, as far as aphids. I sprayed
them off last night and the tips are covered again today. They are
working on the new buds, darn it.

A lot of things about roses are controversial. There are very few things you
will get even a small number of rosarians to agree upon.

If time and expense are your biggest concern, use the petroinorganic (whatever
that word it) chemicals. They will control the aphids. I think most will
agree with this statement. The controversy is which one is best and whether
they are harmful to the envionment.

If you want a more organic control you'll have to experiement yourself and see
whether any or all of them work for you or not. I've never seen more than two
or three people at one time agree on any one of these methods.

Third option - live with the aphids.

Hey Jammer Black spot control(not elimination)

is an year round activity.

Now that I've scared you let me add
that it's work but for those gorgeous
flowers its not much.

The big one is spraying with lime-sulphur
twice in winter. Strip leaves and generally
clean up before and after spray.

Then prevention is the watch word.
Use the Cornell formula and spray
after every rain when the temp is below 90F.

This way I never see BS till August and even
then it is small localized patches.

Oh! did I forget. Please MULCH.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"jammer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:07:08 -0500, jammer wrote:

Hi,

Oh GOOD GRIEF. That is 1/4 cup of dish soap!