It's been very cold here in Michigan for the passed couple of weeks, Often
25 below Fahrenheit with wind chill. I've provided my roses with the typical
protection for this area (a covering of compost around the base) and put up
a bit of a wind screen. Most years this is all we need, and my loss rate
has been low (2% to 5% of my population, or 2 to 10 roses). Of those, I
usually lose a few more grafted plants than own-root, but it's not
consistent. (I currently have about 60/40 split of own-root to graft.)



This year should be the test. The lows this year have been more like zone
4a rather than 5b. (Actually, in the Detroit area, we are often more like
6a or 6b). I'm going to keep a close eye on who takes a bigger hit.



Of course, the big argument is, who's tougher, own-root or graft? J and P
and other mass-production suppliers will clam they graft to improve
hardiness, although I wonder if it's really just to bring them to market
faster. (Own-root takes about three years to a grade 1, grafted are about 2
years).



Own-rooter's say this type tolerates die-back better as there is no change
of "getting Huey'd". (Dr. Huey is a very common graft stock for roses, and
when they go wild, that's what we get!) Of course, own-root is much easier
to do, especially in small product operations.



So now the fight is on. Who will prove to be the hardier? Stay tuned, this
should be good.



Best regards,



Jeff Southeast Michigan, Zone 5 (or at least we used to be)

"Jeffrey L. Kline" wrote in message
...
It's been very cold here in Michigan for the passed couple of weeks,
Often 25 below Fahrenheit with wind chill. I've provided my roses
with the typical protection for this area (a covering of compost
around the base) and put up a bit of a wind screen. Most years this
is all we need, and my loss rate has been low (2% to 5% of my
population, or 2 to 10 roses). Of those, I usually lose a few more
grafted plants than own-root, but it's not consistent. (I
currently have about 60/40 split of own-root to graft.)



This year should be the test. The lows this year have been more
like zone 4a rather than 5b. (Actually, in the Detroit area, we are
often more like 6a or 6b). I'm going to keep a close eye on who
takes a bigger hit.



Of course, the big argument is, who's tougher, own-root or graft? J
and P and other mass-production suppliers will clam they graft to
improve hardiness, although I wonder if it's really just to bring
them to market faster. (Own-root takes about three years to a grade
1, grafted are about 2 years).



Own-rooter's say this type tolerates die-back better as there is no
change of "getting Huey'd". (Dr. Huey is a very common graft stock
for roses, and when they go wild, that's what we get!) Of course,
own-root is much easier to do, especially in small product
operations.



So now the fight is on. Who will prove to be the hardier? Stay
tuned, this should be good.



Best regards,



Jeff Southeast Michigan, Zone 5 (or at least we used to be)

I look forward to your report. I have
both kinds but haven't noticed any
trend for hardiness. Usually when I
bought own roots it was because that
was how the particular variety was
made available.

Early in my rose gardening experience
I lost a number of grafted roses, one
batch to a late winter freeze, another
batch to excessive summer heat &
drought (when I didn't know to water
every other day!). But at that time I was
only buying grafted roses, minis and
old garden roses excluded, of course.

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8 USA

We have a group who proclaims the hardiness of the own-root. There is a
nursery, Great Lake Roses, who sell all "Michigan Hardy" roses. They are
very fine plants, and I would recommend them to anyone (although they don't
ship, so you would need to be local). One of the owners, Nancy Lindley,
co-authored a book called "Roses Of Michigan". Also very good.

Anyway, about all they sell are own-root. Good plants, tolerant to
die-back, but pricey. I bet this is due in part to the time it takes to get
them to a marketable size. They are about twice the cost of a grafted bare
root from Canada, the least expensive source of winter hardy roses in these
parts. The Canada plants are good as well, although I have lost several of
them due to die-back or poor tolerance to shipping.

We expect to loss roses here. Particularly hybrid teas. To tell the truth,
this type seems to be bashed the most. I'm sure you've heard it (bloom on a
stick, no winter tolerance, blah blah blah). I've never quite understood
why.

For me, I love them all. I have representatives of all types of roses that
will grow in our area, from species on up. I have learned to accept the
winter kill and just try to have some "little ones" growing under lights
over the winter to replace my loses. These are mostly own-root cuttings,
although I have some multi-flora in the back I have used as root stock a few
times. And if I don't have many loses, it time for a new rose bed. It's a
win/win situation!

Best Regards

Jeff Southeast Michigan, Zone 5


"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
"Jeffrey L. Kline" wrote in message
...
It's been very cold here in Michigan for the passed couple of weeks,
Often 25 below Fahrenheit with wind chill. I've provided my roses with
the typical protection for this area (a covering of compost around the
base) and put up a bit of a wind screen. Most years this is all we need,
and my loss rate has been low (2% to 5% of my population, or 2 to 10
roses). Of those, I usually lose a few more grafted plants than
own-root, but it's not consistent. (I currently have about 60/40 split
of own-root to graft.)



This year should be the test. The lows this year have been more like
zone 4a rather than 5b. (Actually, in the Detroit area, we are often
more like 6a or 6b). I'm going to keep a close eye on who takes a bigger
hit.



Of course, the big argument is, who's tougher, own-root or graft? J and
P and other mass-production suppliers will clam they graft to improve
hardiness, although I wonder if it's really just to bring them to market
faster. (Own-root takes about three years to a grade 1, grafted are
about 2 years).



Own-rooter's say this type tolerates die-back better as there is no
change of "getting Huey'd". (Dr. Huey is a very common graft stock for
roses, and when they go wild, that's what we get!) Of course, own-root
is much easier to do, especially in small product operations.



So now the fight is on. Who will prove to be the hardier? Stay tuned,
this should be good.



Best regards,



Jeff Southeast Michigan, Zone 5 (or at least we used to be)

I look forward to your report. I have
both kinds but haven't noticed any
trend for hardiness. Usually when I
bought own roots it was because that
was how the particular variety was
made available.

Early in my rose gardening experience
I lost a number of grafted roses, one
batch to a late winter freeze, another
batch to excessive summer heat &
drought (when I didn't know to water
every other day!). But at that time I was
only buying grafted roses, minis and
old garden roses excluded, of course.

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8 USA

"Jeffrey L. Kline" wrote in message
. net...
We have a group who proclaims the hardiness of the own-root. There
is a nursery, Great Lake Roses, who sell all "Michigan Hardy" roses.
They are very fine plants, and I would recommend them to anyone
(although they don't ship, so you would need to be local). One of
the owners, Nancy Lindley, co-authored a book called "Roses Of
Michigan". Also very good.

Southcentral Texas conditions are rough enough
at the other end that there are roses recommended
that do well in TX. I've found that, within certain
limits, what works, is what works! I've had
roses thrive that shouldn't do well in my climate,
and other "no fail" roses fail repeatedly. Of
course, a lot of that could be due to my own
steep learning curve re roses...

Anyway, about all they sell are own-root. Good plants, tolerant to
die-back, but pricey. I bet this is due in part to the time it
takes to get them to a marketable size.

I've bought very young own roots that have
done marvelously well. One Shrub called
Moody Dream came as a 1' tall slip (or
whatever the term is) and over the first summer
grew to about 4'. After that it just kept going.
I've occasionally paid a lot for a special rose
that was hard to find, so I can understand doing
that, but mostly I go for average prices.

They are about twice the cost of a grafted bare
root from Canada, the least expensive source of winter hardy roses
in these parts. The Canada plants are good as well, although I have
lost several of them due to die-back or poor tolerance to shipping.

We expect to loss roses here. Particularly hybrid teas. To tell
the truth, this type seems to be bashed the most. I'm sure you've
heard it (bloom on a stick, no winter tolerance, blah blah blah).
I've never quite understood why.

I'm with you. I've had a nursery person tell
me she's never had a failure with a David Austin
English rose and would recommend them to
anyone. When I told her about two DAE
varieties that flat died or lived but poorly, in
the same bed as HTs and Fls that thrived, she
looked incredulous. Note: Most of my
DAEs have done wonderfully well and I'd
not hesitate to buy more - just not the two
varieties that failed for me!

For me, I love them all. I have representatives of all types of
roses that will grow in our area, from species on up.

That's my approach, too. I started out with moderns
(HTs & Fls) but found an old garden rose I really
like ("Village Maid", a Centifolia) and that got me
started on the possibilities. I don't have any
species roses, but just about everything else.

I have learned to accept the
winter kill and just try to have some "little ones" growing under
lights over the winter to replace my loses. These are mostly
own-root cuttings, although I have some multi-flora in the back I
have used as root stock a few times. And if I don't have many
loses, it time for a new rose bed. It's a win/win situation!

I've done some cuttings on old garden roses
with mixed success. I've had better luck
with what I believe is a polyantha, and is
called "Red Cascade". You can use it as
a groundcover or as a pillar rose. Very
drought tolerant, which I appreciate down here.

Best Regards

Jeff Southeast Michigan, Zone 5

Gail
Near San Antonio TX Zone 8