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#16
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Mature size of these roses
Cass wrote
( Secret Garden Musk Climber) hmm. The clove scent is unusual, tho to my nose, nothing smells better on the air than Excellenz von Schubert and Lavender Lassie. I'm talking about smell from 10 feet. Up close, I'm a sucker for the bourbons. My SGMC is grown on an open windy hillside. Maybe in a protected, warm, close space, the scent would carry on the air. You're in a warm climate, as I recall? You can let us know what you think, after it has a chance to grow a bit. I believe SGMC is thought to be a descendant of R. Mouchata(sp?) and as such has a powerful and unique fragrance. I've never seen or smelled R.M only read so much about its scent I had to try SGMC. I don't have any roses whose scent catches my attention from across the garden. I can smell Belinda's Dream when I pass by, but I must stick my nose into most of them to get any smell. And even then several that are supposed to be fragrant are not. Defective nose I suppose. |
#17
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Mature size of these roses
saki wrote
What clash are you trying to avoid? Form or color? White Maman Cochet should not clash with Gruss an Aachen in either way, though to use them together will add some pale tones to that section of the garden; Gruss blooms are a lovely shell-pink/apricot at first but have a tendency to fade after a few days, though not to pure white. Gruss's OGR form is quite wonderful, IMHO, and its scent superb. Color. I like highly contrasting colors like purple with orange, the pinks are often close but clashing to my eyes. Your mention of the apricot in GaA makes me think I would not like it near White Maman Cochet. I could even see planting a couple Gruss's and a Purple Buttons at the base of White Maman; this would be an interesting contrast of tones from pale to deep. If you're trying to hide White Maman's base, Gruss might be the better choice because it's a tad taller than Purple Buttons. I'm trying to cover the base of WMC, but not the canes on its trellis. I find the canes very interesting, can't really describe it, but I enjoy seeing at them exposed. That is so unlike me, who can't stand to see naked roses, but it just fits on this one. (Maybe because it's a climber and I think it should look that way?) My other experience with Purple Buttons is that (a) it really likes heat, and (b) it loves being in a pot. My Gruss's over the years have endured being in a pot but really like the ground. I don't know if this helps (and my So Cal experiences may not parallel yours) but I thought I'd mention it. It does help, I had considered putting PB in a pot at the base of WMC. The pot would help conceal the base and give the roots on PB a space of their own. I will be able to keep PB plenty of heat, I only hope it appreciates the humidity as well! |
#18
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Mature size of these roses
"Julie" wrote in message om... Thanks to Allegra, I have a rose order coming this way soon. G I decided I couldn't live without Darlow's Enigma another year so I ordered from Ashdown. Hello Julie, You are going to love Darlow's Enigma, he is really a sweetheart of a rose. It has such an elegant stand, I find it hard to explain. Demure but sexy if you please. I guess you could say I truly, truly like (!) this rose. Yesterday I went out in the soft rain and planted Rouge Royale and Taboo, the one rose that was eaten by cane borers probably for a year before we bought the house. It put out a single solitary bloom of the darkest red I have ever seen and it was breathtaking. So, this year we found one of the new own root JP and we got it at Birds' the nursery JD -who by the way has dropped off the face of the earth as far as I can tell (are you listening JD?)- turned us on last year. We also got E.Veyrat Hermanos in a big, and I do mean big pot by the fountain hoping the two clematis that go over the arch will eventually shake hands with it and Champney's Pink across the arch. Here still wet, gray and cold. But a some cuttings have rooted gloriously, and in spite of an unhealthy dose of powdery mildew all over Zephirine - the milk treatment didn't do a thing I am afraid no matter what ratio, 5 to 1, 4 to 1, 3 to 1 , back to the old spray - the rest is breaking dormancy with a whole heck of a lot basals, and if Spring doesn't come here soon... I never thought I would say this, but at times like this California even sounds like a nice place to move in order to grow roses... just kidding! ;) How are your roses doing? Allegra |
#20
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Mature size of these roses
"Allegra" wrote in news:hieba.35084$L1.7311
@sccrnsc02: You are going to love Darlow's Enigma, he is really a sweetheart of a rose. It has such an elegant stand, I find it hard to explain. Demure but sexy if you please. I guess you could say I truly, truly like (!) this rose. I have a yearling of Darlow, so it's still quite small, but buds are forming. I'm still not sure how much the plant will actually climb this year but I'm looking forward to this rose as well. Here still wet, gray and cold. But a some cuttings have rooted gloriously, and in spite of an unhealthy dose of powdery mildew all over Zephirine - the milk treatment didn't do a thing I am afraid no matter what ratio, 5 to 1, 4 to 1, 3 to 1 , back to the old spray.... The only roses I'm having mildew problems with right now are two Fragrant Clouds, both in full sun but fussing anyway. I tried the milk spray (using whole milk, 5 parts water to one part milk as recommended). I saw some improvement but not enough to warrant continuing its use. I switched to one of the Safer Products for powdery mildew---can't recall which one but I think it has some Neem oil in it. Now things are looking up. My two Zepherines, which have finally bloomed after three years of waiting, are in a slightly different locale but have not shown any signs of powdery mildew despite their legendary susceptibility. Amazing how different the microclimates can be from back to front garden. ---- |
#21
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Mature size of these roses
Allegra wrote:
Here still wet, gray and cold. But a some cuttings have rooted gloriously, and in spite of an unhealthy dose of powdery mildew all over Zephirine - the milk treatment didn't do a thing I am afraid no matter what ratio, 5 to 1, 4 to 1, 3 to 1 , back to the old spray - the rest is breaking dormancy with a whole heck of a lot basals, and if Spring doesn't come here soon... I heard of someone who swears by Listerine for PM. This is what desperation will lead us to. |
#22
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Mature size of these roses
Cass wrote:
Allegra wrote: Here still wet, gray and cold. But a some cuttings have rooted gloriously, and in spite of an unhealthy dose of powdery mildew all over Zephirine - the milk treatment didn't do a thing I am afraid no matter what ratio, 5 to 1, 4 to 1, 3 to 1 , back to the old spray - the rest is breaking dormancy with a whole heck of a lot basals, and if Spring doesn't come here soon... I heard of someone who swears by Listerine for PM. This is what desperation will lead us to. Ya know, Cass. That really ought to work well! Really, it ought to work as an excellent antimocrobial, and all with natural products, essential oils that is too, all known for aeons as antimicrobials before micorbes were even known. I kid you not. Here is an excerpt from an interesting website, marked with (my) emphasis to make the point: Phenolics Lister first suggested the used of phenol (carbolic acid) for sterilization in surgery the problem with phenol is that it is very irritating and has a bad odor today phenol is still used in throat lozenges and in throat sprays phenolics are organic compounds similar to phenol but without the bad smell and irritancy of phenol the active ingredient in Lysol is ortho-phenylphenol it is derived from coal tar and is a class of compounds called cresols Lysol is also 79% alcohol, enhancing the effectiveness of the phenylphenol another cresol is hexachlorophene, used as a surgical scrub and the active ingredient in pHisoHex hexachlorophene is also used in toothpaste, deodorants and soaps it is effective against Staphylococci and Streptococci common skin pathogens phenolics are good disinfectants because they are stable and persistent *Listerine is another common antiseptic and was first concocted by Lister in 1879 Warner-Lambert picked it up in 1881 and today it is a $400 million per year product Listerine is a mixture of thymol, eucalyptol, menthol and methyl salicylate: natural products ("essential oils") that include phenolics Listerine also contains over 25% alcohol which enhances its effectiveness phenolics act by disrupting cell membranes, inactivating enzymes, and denaturing proteins* All that was lifed from: http://webs.wichita.edu/mschneegurt/...lecture19.html -- Radika California USDA 9 / Sunset 15 |
#23
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Mature size of these roses
Radika,
Would the alcohol harm the vegetation? Seems like it might burn the leaves. But what do I know? I'm no chemist.... JimS. "Radika Kesavan" wrote in message ... Cass wrote: Allegra wrote: Here still wet, gray and cold. But a some cuttings have rooted gloriously, and in spite of an unhealthy dose of powdery mildew all over Zephirine - the milk treatment didn't do a thing I am afraid no matter what ratio, 5 to 1, 4 to 1, 3 to 1 , back to the old spray - the rest is breaking dormancy with a whole heck of a lot basals, and if Spring doesn't come here soon... I heard of someone who swears by Listerine for PM. This is what desperation will lead us to. Ya know, Cass. That really ought to work well! Really, it ought to work as an excellent antimocrobial, and all with natural products, essential oils that is too, all known for aeons as antimicrobials before micorbes were even known. I kid you not. Here is an excerpt from an interesting website, marked with (my) emphasis to make the point: Phenolics Lister first suggested the used of phenol (carbolic acid) for sterilization in surgery the problem with phenol is that it is very irritating and has a bad odor today phenol is still used in throat lozenges and in throat sprays phenolics are organic compounds similar to phenol but without the bad smell and irritancy of phenol the active ingredient in Lysol is ortho-phenylphenol it is derived from coal tar and is a class of compounds called cresols Lysol is also 79% alcohol, enhancing the effectiveness of the phenylphenol another cresol is hexachlorophene, used as a surgical scrub and the active ingredient in pHisoHex hexachlorophene is also used in toothpaste, deodorants and soaps it is effective against Staphylococci and Streptococci common skin pathogens phenolics are good disinfectants because they are stable and persistent *Listerine is another common antiseptic and was first concocted by Lister in 1879 Warner-Lambert picked it up in 1881 and today it is a $400 million per year product Listerine is a mixture of thymol, eucalyptol, menthol and methyl salicylate: natural products ("essential oils") that include phenolics Listerine also contains over 25% alcohol which enhances its effectiveness phenolics act by disrupting cell membranes, inactivating enzymes, and denaturing proteins* All that was lifed from: http://webs.wichita.edu/mschneegurt/...lecture19.html -- Radika California USDA 9 / Sunset 15 |
#24
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Mature size of these roses
Radika Kesavan wrote:
Cass wrote: I heard of someone who swears by Listerine for PM. This is what desperation will lead us to. Ya know, Cass. That really ought to work well! Really, it ought to work as an excellent antimocrobial, and all with natural products, essential oils that is too, all known for aeons as antimicrobials before micorbes were even known. I kid you not. Here is an excerpt from an interesting website, marked with (my) emphasis to make the point: Phenolics Lister first suggested the used of phenol (carbolic acid) for sterilization in surgery the problem with phenol is that it is very irritating and has a bad odor today phenol is still used in throat lozenges and in throat sprays phenolics are organic compounds similar to phenol but without the bad smell and irritancy of phenol the active ingredient in Lysol is ortho-phenylphenol it is derived from coal tar and is a class of compounds called cresols Lysol is also 79% alcohol, enhancing the effectiveness of the phenylphenol another cresol is hexachlorophene, used as a surgical scrub and the active ingredient in pHisoHex hexachlorophene is also used in toothpaste, deodorants and soaps it is effective against Staphylococci and Streptococci common skin pathogens phenolics are good disinfectants because they are stable and persistent *Listerine is another common antiseptic and was first concocted by Lister in 1879 Warner-Lambert picked it up in 1881 and today it is a $400 million per year product Listerine is a mixture of thymol, eucalyptol, menthol and methyl salicylate: natural products ("essential oils") that include phenolics Listerine also contains over 25% alcohol which enhances its effectiveness phenolics act by disrupting cell membranes, inactivating enzymes, and denaturing proteins* So even with the alcohol, I might not need to dilute it because it will evaporate quickly anyway? I have a prospective victim in mind. I mean, if a rose is going into the green can if doesn't conquer PM, and it gets PM, what do I have to lose? There's a white patch of the stuff on one cane of a rose that suffered last fall. I tried rubbing it off, I tried milk and water, I tried neem oil, and now I may just give a a dab of Listerine that is under a sink somewhere. I also have Eco Erase, but hell, it's only March and it seems to early to pull out all the stops. |
#25
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Mature size of these roses
JimS. wrote:
Radika, Would the alcohol harm the vegetation? Seems like it might burn the leaves. But what do I know? I'm no chemist.... Very good question, Jim. I do not know the answer. However, I have seen instructions given in various places ranging sll the way from a 50% (diluted with water) Listerine to this rather strange formula of "Black spot, aphids and other bugs: A pretty "universal" spray for just about everything. To water in a 2 gallon sprayer add: 2 tsp. baby shampoo 3 tsp. Listerine (store brand is fine) 1 tsp. ammonia Shake it up good and spray away." I do not know what the right procedure is, but I am saying that the contents of Listerine being phenolic, may very well prove to be fungicidal or fungistatic. Of course, I have no proof for this, but just the observation that this adds up. One ought to try it on a small part of the rose to be sure, of course. My guess is that 25% alcohol will no more hurt the plant tissue (especially with its cellulose cell wall that is less permeable than our cells with only glycogen membrane) than it hurts our tissues. But what do I know! I am not a plant biochemist, no sir. -- Radika California USDA 9 / Sunset 15 |
#26
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Mature size of these roses
Cass wrote:
Radika Kesavan wrote: ... Listerine is a mixture of thymol, eucalyptol, menthol and methyl salicylate: natural products ("essential oils") that include phenolics Listerine also contains over 25% alcohol which enhances its effectiveness phenolics act by disrupting cell membranes, inactivating enzymes, and denaturing proteins* So even with the alcohol, I might not need to dilute it because it will evaporate quickly anyway? I have a prospective victim in mind. I mean, if a rose is going into the green can if doesn't conquer PM, and it gets PM, what do I have to lose? There's a white patch of the stuff on one cane of a rose that suffered last fall. I tried rubbing it off, I tried milk and water, I tried neem oil, and now I may just give a a dab of Listerine that is under a sink somewhere. I also have Eco Erase, but hell, it's only March and it seems to early to pull out all the stops. Cass, like I said to Jim, I don't think that 25% alcohol would cause plant tissue any more harm than it does to our tissues. I do not know for sure, of course. Also, though alcohol would evaporate reasonably fast when it is neat 100% alcohol, when mixed with water it would evaporate much more slowly (a phenomenon called hydrogen bonding would be to blame, I think). So, you cannot bank on that. I would suggest trying it on a small healthy part of the plant and waiting for a day or two to make sure it does not hurt the plant before proceeding with caution. -- Radika California USDA 9 / Sunset 15 |
#27
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Mature size of these roses
"Allegra" wrote
Hello Julie, You are going to love Darlow's Enigma, he is really a sweetheart of a rose. It has such an elegant stand, I find it hard to explain. Demure but sexy if you please. I guess you could say I truly, truly like (!) this rose. For some reason, I think you like this rose. g Do you grow yours as a climber or a freestanding shrub? Yesterday I went out in the soft rain and planted Rouge Royale and Taboo, the one rose that was eaten by cane borers probably for a year before we bought the house. It put out a single solitary bloom of the darkest red I have ever seen and it was breathtaking. So, this year we found one of the new own root JP and we got it at Birds' the nursery JD -who by the way has dropped off the face of the earth as far as I can tell (are you listening JD?)- turned us on last year. We also got E.Veyrat Hermanos in a big, and I do mean big pot by the fountain hoping the two clematis that go over the arch will eventually shake hands with it and Champney's Pink across the arch. I "need" some red roses. This year almost all the new ones are white and fragrant. I think I should add some reds to brighten up the gardens. Perhaps next year I will buy all red roses. Ashdown won't have Francis Dubreuil ready in time to add to my order. And I didn't see any others that really caught my attention on their site. Your fountain, clematis and rose combination sounds lovely. I had to look up E. Veyrat Hermanos, AKA Pillar of Gold, described as pink blend blooms. With that AKA I would have assumed it would be yellow! Here still wet, gray and cold. But a some cuttings have rooted gloriously, and in spite of an unhealthy dose of powdery mildew all over Zephirine - the milk treatment didn't do a thing I am afraid no matter what ratio, 5 to 1, 4 to 1, 3 to 1 , back to the old spray - the rest is breaking dormancy with a whole heck of a lot basals, and if Spring doesn't come here soon... No PM here, but I have noticed some blackspotted leaves already. We've had a very wet winter and spring, which has caused the roses to leaf out beautifully, but I expect we'll pay for it later with lots of BS. I have started spraying, promising myself I would be more dilligent this year than last. The poor roses paid the price for my indifference last year. I never thought I would say this, but at times like this California even sounds like a nice place to move in order to grow roses... just kidding! ;) g How are your roses doing? Other than the aforementioned BS they are looking great! It's hard to believe how quickly they all leafed out and began blooming. The climbing Souvenir de la Malmaison has 20 or more open blooms and twice that many buds. White Maman Cochet, covering one half the arbor, is about to explode with blooms. This is year three for both of these roses and the saying, "The thrid year they leap," is proving to be correct. Other roses of interest: Mrs. Dudley Cross, moved late last year to a roomier location, has several blooms again. After being cut back so severely, I'm very happy with her comeback. Rose de Rescht and Jacques Cartier have escaped the shovel again this spring. But I swear, the minute they loose all their leaves in sprite of regular spraying, they are out of here! My mystery rose is putting on new growth. The past two years I've gotten new canes, this year I'm seeing laterals. Maybe another climber, I only hope to see at least one bloom this year. I have little patience, especially for unknown roses. I'm very happy I can spend some time with my roses. Spring is such a wonderful time, so full of promise. In this time of stress, there's nothing like a few hours spent in the garden. Julie |
#28
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Mature size of these roses
Bob Bauer wrote:
What about Gruss an Auchen? Gruss an Aachen will grow to be about 3 feet tall and 3 feet wide. Many people consider this rose to be the world's first floribunda. It is fragrant, blooms a lot and is very beautiful. Everyone who is a rose lover should grow this one. I've heard great things about GaA for years, seems it's on many peoples favorites list. But when I asked Diann Giles about buying this one, she said they didn't carry it because she had never seen a healthy, thriving plant. I wonder if it just doesn't like our weather? I guess I'm about to find out. Julie |
#29
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Mature size of these roses
Julie said:
I've heard great things about GaA for years, seems it's on many peoples favorites list. But when I asked Diann Giles about buying this one, she said they didn't carry it because she had never seen a healthy, thriving plant. I wonder if it just doesn't like our weather? I guess I'm about to find out. Interesting. There are SO many roses that are climate dependent. For example the famous rose 'Queen Elizabeth' , a rose so great and unique that they invented a new category of roses because of its characteristics (the 'Grandiflora'), does horribly awful in my climate of cold winters and hot dry summers. I have talked to many members of the Utah rose society, and they all say the same thing: QE does not do well here. This plant that is supposed to be tall and floriferous, in my yard is 2 feet tall and 18 inches wide and puts out maybe 5 blooms a year. Go figure. Bob Bauer Zone 6 in Salt Lake City http://www.rose-roses.com/ |
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