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Old 27-05-2003, 07:56 AM
Brendan OMara
 
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Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

I just purchased a Burgess Insect Fogger for $69.
I hear they are available at Home Depot and Wal Mart
in certain Areas. It takes oil based insecticide
and with a propane burner tank, turns it into a
thick fog that can be broadcast around your home.

Anyone used this on their roses? If so, what
insecticide should I purchase to load into
it? Is it safe? Is it smart? did it work as an
effective replacement for standard spraying?

Thanks!
-Brendan

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Old 27-05-2003, 10:08 PM
Brendan OMara
 
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Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

My health aside, what makes you feel spraying your Orthonex
is any safer/better than delivering .2% Resmethrin to my
patio and house area with a fog, which is known to be more
penetrating than spray but delivering the same basic
bug killing properties? Seems like fogging "through" the
roses is a good idea, that's what I was hoping someone could
refect on, maybe someone's tried it?

Thanks!
-Brendan

(Shiva) wrote in message news:[email protected] .
On 26 May 2003 23:45:41 -0700,
(Brendan OMara)
wrote:

I just purchased a Burgess Insect Fogger for $69.
I hear they are available at Home Depot and Wal Mart
in certain Areas. It takes oil based insecticide
and with a propane burner tank, turns it into a
thick fog that can be broadcast around your home.


Oh. My. God.

You cannot be serious.

If you are, the first thing you need to get is a respirator, the
highest grade available.

Then, look around at any other living things that might be in your
yard, such as birds, etc., and kiss them good bye if you cannot
confine them to your house.

I am the Chemical Queen around here, (I spray with Orthenex every ten
days) and I would not even mess with a fogger.

My advice to you is to take that thing back.




Anyone used this on their roses? If so, what
insecticide should I purchase to load into
it? Is it safe? Is it smart? did it work as an
effective replacement for standard spraying?

Thanks!
-Brendan

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Old 27-05-2003, 10:32 PM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

On 27 May 2003 14:07:30 -0700, (Brendan OMara)
wrote:

My health aside, what makes you feel spraying your Orthonex
is any safer/better than delivering .2% Resmethrin


1. You did not mention what you would be "fogging" with, let alone .2%
Resmethrin, whatever that is.


to my
patio and house area with a fog, which is known to be more
penetrating than spray but delivering the same basic
bug killing properties?



Just as using a very fine spray of bleach is not a good idea in
cleaning bathrooms, because it is too easily inhaled, whereas a
coarser spray is not, a smoke-based "fog" would be more easily
breathed than my coarse spray of Orthenex. Even still, I use a
respirator, eye protection, protective clothing, and say a little
prayer.


Seems like fogging "through" the
roses is a good idea, that's what I was hoping someone could
refect on, maybe someone's tried it?


I sincerely hope not, but good luck with your search for information.
Given the potency of insecticides alone, adding smoke simply cannot be
good.




Thanks!
-Brendan

(Shiva) wrote in message news:[email protected] .
On 26 May 2003 23:45:41 -0700,
(Brendan OMara)
wrote:

I just purchased a Burgess Insect Fogger for $69.
I hear they are available at Home Depot and Wal Mart
in certain Areas. It takes oil based insecticide
and with a propane burner tank, turns it into a
thick fog that can be broadcast around your home.


Oh. My. God.

You cannot be serious.

If you are, the first thing you need to get is a respirator, the
highest grade available.

Then, look around at any other living things that might be in your
yard, such as birds, etc., and kiss them good bye if you cannot
confine them to your house.

I am the Chemical Queen around here, (I spray with Orthenex every ten
days) and I would not even mess with a fogger.

My advice to you is to take that thing back.




Anyone used this on their roses? If so, what
insecticide should I purchase to load into
it? Is it safe? Is it smart? did it work as an
effective replacement for standard spraying?

Thanks!
-Brendan


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Old 27-05-2003, 11:32 PM
Theo Asir
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

bug killing properties? Seems like fogging "through" the
roses is a good idea, that's what I was hoping someone could
refect on, maybe someone's tried it?


Brendan, I've often thought about it.

http://bugsource.com/fogmaster_jr.html
I've lusted after this one for some time now.

Several things stop me.

I live in the bulls eye of tornado valley.
Last year a class project @ our local school
discovered that the wind around here is
above 30 mph 8% of the time, 20-30
16% & 10-20 mph 27% of the time.
Thats industrial grade wind there.

Also I tend to spray the cornell mixture
90% of the time. I don't know how that would
perform inside the fogger.

Also I don't want to suit up when I
spray the cornell mixture. I will have to
w/ the fogger.

Let us know how it goes.

Is it a genuine fog of suspended particles
or is it an aerosol/paint gun effect.
There is a difference.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City




  #6   Report Post  
Old 28-05-2003, 12:08 AM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

On Tue, 27 May 2003 22:25:52 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:



Is it a genuine fog of suspended particles
or is it an aerosol/paint gun effect.
There is a difference.


Can you tell me what the difference is, Theo? I didn't know there was
one.




--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City



  #7   Report Post  
Old 28-05-2003, 12:08 AM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

On 26 May 2003 23:45:41 -0700, (Brendan OMara)
wrote:

I just purchased a Burgess Insect Fogger for $69.
I hear they are available at Home Depot and Wal Mart
in certain Areas.


Where did you buy yours, Brendan?
  #8   Report Post  
Old 28-05-2003, 02:56 PM
Theo Asir
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?



Is it a genuine fog of suspended particles
or is it an aerosol/paint gun effect.
There is a difference.


Can you tell me what the difference is, Theo? I didn't know there was
one.


The one in nature consists of
100% humidity and sudden chilling of
saturated air. In nature ideally all
the fog particles will have the same size
and charge so they do not immediately clump.

Since this is not reproducible
artificial fog machines use chemicals
such as glycols to stabilize the particles once formed.
The mixture is heat evaporated, slightly
compressed & pushed out into the open
where it quickly cools to form fog.
Stabilization is needed because the particles are so small
they will quickly evaporate even in 90% humidity.

I'm not even gonna consider oil based fog.

The aerosol effect tries to spray
particles small enough. but the particle
sizes are not even & there is no charge
so they quickly clump and gravity takes over
loosing the fog effect.

The big down side with aerosol sprays is that
the nozzles are extremely small. even the smallest
particle will clog the nozzle.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


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Old 29-05-2003, 05:21 AM
Brendan OMara
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

Coastal Farm Supply. It's funny to me how Shiva wants to
shoot things down when he/she doesn't even understand the physical
pricipals and methods that make fogging a good method
of spray delivery.

Obviously I want to stay away from ingesting chemicals, but
none of that was the question... nor is my choice of the potency
of chemicals the question... I was hoping someone has already
tried this approach of chemical delivery on ROSES, not start
an argument over chemical safety and it's effect on the
environment. You also make different choices on these types of
things when you own farm land with no neighbors compared to some
of you city folk, that's why I just want to learn about the roses.

Thanks again for those of you who responded, anyone else tried
this fogger method yet?


"Theo Asir" wrote in message news:[email protected] .
Is it a genuine fog of suspended particles
or is it an aerosol/paint gun effect.
There is a difference.


Can you tell me what the difference is, Theo? I didn't know there was
one.


The one in nature consists of
100% humidity and sudden chilling of
saturated air. In nature ideally all
the fog particles will have the same size
and charge so they do not immediately clump.

Since this is not reproducible
artificial fog machines use chemicals
such as glycols to stabilize the particles once formed.
The mixture is heat evaporated, slightly
compressed & pushed out into the open
where it quickly cools to form fog.
Stabilization is needed because the particles are so small
they will quickly evaporate even in 90% humidity.

I'm not even gonna consider oil based fog.

The aerosol effect tries to spray
particles small enough. but the particle
sizes are not even & there is no charge
so they quickly clump and gravity takes over
loosing the fog effect.

The big down side with aerosol sprays is that
the nozzles are extremely small. even the smallest
particle will clog the nozzle.

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Old 29-05-2003, 05:21 AM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

On 28 May 2003 10:38:40 -0700, (Brendan OMara)
wrote:

Coastal Farm Supply. It's funny to me how Shiva wants to
shoot things down when he/she doesn't even understand the physical
pricipals and methods that make fogging a good method
of spray delivery.


I am so happy to have amused you, Brendan. May I remind you that we
are all learning here. If I am the only person who thinks fogging with
insecticide sounds insane, then, well, I can take it. But I suspect
that I am not.

Obviously I want to stay away from ingesting chemicals, but
none of that was the question...


Terribly sorry, but in unmoderated fora we can pretty much respond in
any way we like. Have you tried the Yahoo group Grow Roses? Lots of
great rosarians there who might be more able to answer your specific
question. Then there is always Garden Web.



nor is my choice of the potency
of chemicals the question... I was hoping someone has already
tried this approach of chemical delivery on ROSES, not start
an argument over chemical safety and it's effect on the
environment.


I feel for you. We just can't always get what we want, you know?



You also make different choices on these types of
things when you own farm land with no neighbors compared to some
of you city folk, that's why I just want to learn about the roses.


How about a crop duster?

Thanks again for those of you who responded, anyone else tried
this fogger method yet?


Ain't no "else" about it. Theo said he had considered it, but declined
to pursue it. He listed his reasons for doing so.

In my five years of reading this group daily, I have never seen this
method of pesticide delivery mentioned. My guess is that anyone who is
using it doesn't want to bring it up.

Oh, and by the way--a simple Google web search turns up all sorts of
good stuff on the Burgess Fogger, including what to use in it that is
apparently not too terribly toxic. One drawback I saw with regard to
efficacy is that the recommended product is entirely a contact
insecticide, meaning it kills anything breathing in the area. Then it
breaks down in about 24 hours. Therefore, all your beneficials such as
ladybugs, lacewings, etc will die, and yet there is no systemic or
residual effect upon unwanted sucking or chewing insects.

Orthenex does a much better job, protecting against sucking and
chewing pests for 7-10 days.

Best of luck!


"Theo Asir" wrote in message news:[email protected] .
Is it a genuine fog of suspended particles
or is it an aerosol/paint gun effect.
There is a difference.

Can you tell me what the difference is, Theo? I didn't know there was
one.


The one in nature consists of
100% humidity and sudden chilling of
saturated air. In nature ideally all
the fog particles will have the same size
and charge so they do not immediately clump.

Since this is not reproducible
artificial fog machines use chemicals
such as glycols to stabilize the particles once formed.
The mixture is heat evaporated, slightly
compressed & pushed out into the open
where it quickly cools to form fog.
Stabilization is needed because the particles are so small
they will quickly evaporate even in 90% humidity.

I'm not even gonna consider oil based fog.

The aerosol effect tries to spray
particles small enough. but the particle
sizes are not even & there is no charge
so they quickly clump and gravity takes over
loosing the fog effect.

The big down side with aerosol sprays is that
the nozzles are extremely small. even the smallest
particle will clog the nozzle.




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Old 29-05-2003, 05:21 AM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

On Wed, 28 May 2003 13:53:11 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:



Is it a genuine fog of suspended particles
or is it an aerosol/paint gun effect.
There is a difference.


Can you tell me what the difference is, Theo? I didn't know there was
one.


The one in nature consists of
100% humidity and sudden chilling of
saturated air. In nature ideally all
the fog particles will have the same size
and charge so they do not immediately clump.

Since this is not reproducible
artificial fog machines use chemicals
such as glycols to stabilize the particles once formed.
The mixture is heat evaporated, slightly
compressed & pushed out into the open
where it quickly cools to form fog.
Stabilization is needed because the particles are so small
they will quickly evaporate even in 90% humidity.


Thanks so much, Theo, I love getting a grasp of the science of things
when I can.





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Old 29-05-2003, 05:20 PM
Susan H. Simko
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

Brendan OMara wrote:

Coastal Farm Supply. It's funny to me how Shiva wants to
shoot things down when he/she doesn't even understand the physical
pricipals and methods that make fogging a good method
of spray delivery.


Well, my initial reaction when I read what you wrote was that my
neighbors would lynch me if I did something like that and with good
reason. Too many small children and pets to do something like that.

As to the comment about not understnading physical principles, well, you
did bother to educate any of us. Like I said my initial reaction was no
way is that a good idea. I had no idea there were two different methods
and you didn't provide enough details on what method you were using or
what chemicals you were planning to use.

Obviously I want to stay away from ingesting chemicals, but
none of that was the question... nor is my choice of the potency
of chemicals the question... I was hoping someone has already
tried this approach of chemical delivery on ROSES, not start
an argument over chemical safety and it's effect on the
environment. You also make different choices on these types of
things when you own farm land with no neighbors compared to some
of you city folk, that's why I just want to learn about the roses.


Again, why did you not provide this info in the first place especially
knowing how dangerous this can be if you don't have the ideal
circumstances? My guess, you aren't familiar with usenet because if you
were, you should have known you would get the reaction you got. And, if
you weren't familiar, following the recommended advice of monitoring a
group for a while to get the feel for it is not just good netiquette but
also good advice.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu

  #13   Report Post  
Old 29-05-2003, 07:08 PM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fogging for insects with my Burgess Fogger? On ROSES?

Henry wrote:


The drifting of chemicals becomes more significant as the size of the
particle decreases. A paper by Reeves Petroff, Pesticide Education
Specialist at the Montana State University Extension Service [1] reports
the distances covered by droplets of different sizes falling 10 feet in
a 3 mph wind as follows (convert to fixed width font for easiest

reading):

Droplet Type Time Distance Covered by
Diameter of Required to droplets falling 10
(Microns) Droplet Fall 10 Feet feet in a 3 mph wind
--------- --------------- ------------ --------------------
5 Fog 66 minutes 3 miles
20 Very Fine Spray 4.2 minutes 1,100 feet
100 Fine Spray 10 seconds 44 feet
240 Medium Spray 6 seconds 28 feet
400 Coarse Spray 2 seconds 8.5 feet
1,000 Fine Rain 1 second 4.7 feet

Off the top of my head, I'd say my sprayer produces a mist that
falls 10 feet in 5 to 10 seconds. So, in a 3 mph wind (which is
a very light breeze) anything up to 44 feet away is likely to be
reached. That's farther than I would have guessed but not by a
lot. On the other hand, I would never have expected fog to
travel up to three miles. That's certainly something to
consider when applying something poisonous.[...]


This is one time when my intuition corresponds with science.

The tent idea is a good one, for anyone chancing it with a fogger.


















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