Well, it's my own fault. . .

I love looking at catalogs, and the David Austin color catalog is one of the
prettiest I'd seen. I looked and sighed, and finally selected 8 of the
prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest (Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Well, I'm trying not to make a snap decision and grab the shovel without
giving them a fair shake, but after 4 months of growth from bare-root and
the first bloom, I am distinctly unimpressed with Austin's roses. Unless
situation changes, the only ones I will probably keep are St. Swithin and
Bro. Cadfael; St. Sw. is a dynamo, an abundant cluster bloom producer that
just keeps going. The plant has thrown out tremendous growth for a
first-year climber, and each growth has branches and nice-sized buds! Bro.
Cadfael was slower to start, but is growing nicely now and had a respectable
showing of nice-sized single blooms (about a dozen) the last week of May.
The others have all had their first flush of bloom, and their first bouts
with mildew and rust. Kathryn Morley started slowly and didn't bloom very
abundantly the first flush (only 5 blooms). Constance Spry won't bloom till
next year, is a good grower, no mildew or rust. Glamys Castle is a mildew
magnet! Mary Rose, located next to it, doesn't seem to be affected, has put
on abundant blooms but isn't growing well at all; a spindly plant. Heritage
is a washout ... good growth, but lots of mildew and rust, (next to roses
that are unaffected) and the blooms were all washed-out dishwater white, not
the delicate shell pink I was expecting. Evelyn is quite lovely and fairly
mildew-free; what blooms it has are orangey and huge, but they have weak
necks; their weight drags them down. The plant is going to be a gangly one;
probably a climber here in SoCal.
And all of the blooms shatter in 2 or 3 days!

What an expensive object lesson. I'd trade all but the climbers for another
couple of old HT Bewitched or King's Ransom roses, or maybe some floribundas
or old roses. And next year, I probably will.

Do you know my absolutely best rose? New Day. That rose is a blooming fool!
It's bloom form is not perfect, but it just puts on flush after flush of
big, beautiful golden yellow blooms; almost completely free of mildew and
with no rust. It's a dynamic grower with huge, thick, thorny canes that will
easily hit 6' before the end of the season. It gives Queen Elizabeth a run
for her money!

Thanks to all of you in the rose forum for your tips and growing
suggestions!

Sue in SoCal
Learning the hard way .... You can't always believe the hype!

In Susan Solomon wrote:
St. Sw. is a dynamo, an abundant cluster bloom producer that
just keeps going. The plant has thrown out tremendous growth for a
first-year climber, and each growth has branches and nice-sized buds!'

Good to hear. I bought a lonely potted St Swithun this autumn to
replace A Shropshire Lad (an Austin that was spectacularly unsuccessful
for me). It hasn't bloomed yet, so it looks like next spring I may see
the results.

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:50:54 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:

Well, it's my own fault. . .

I love looking at catalogs, and the David Austin color catalog is one of the
prettiest I'd seen. I looked and sighed, and finally selected 8 of the
prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest (Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Well, I'm trying not to make a snap decision and grab the shovel without
giving them a fair shake, but after 4 months of growth from bare-root and
the first bloom, I am distinctly unimpressed with Austin's roses.

FOUR MONTHS?

Susan, I'm curious, how do these Austins compare to other bare root
roses that you have had for four months from the day you put them in
the ground?

prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a
gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest
(Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Susan, I grow all these except Cadfael & Swithin.

As a disclaimer, Austins have a well
documented problem with SoCal climate.
The warmth w/ no real winter chill causes
weird wild growth.

Typically roses do very little the first year.
They just don't have the roots established
enough to do anything.

These roses grow very well for me. Mary rose
(I grow Winchester cathedral her sport) is
absolutely covered in blooms for her second flush.

Mildew is something almost every rose is suseptible to.
Many SoCal growers use a jojoba oil product called erase.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:50:54 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:

Well, it's my own fault. . .

I love looking at catalogs, and the David Austin color catalog is one of
the
prettiest I'd seen. I looked and sighed, and finally selected 8 of the
prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a
gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest
(Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Well, I'm trying not to make a snap decision and grab the shovel without
giving them a fair shake, but after 4 months of growth from bare-root and
the first bloom, I am distinctly unimpressed with Austin's roses.

FOUR MONTHS?

Susan, I'm curious, how do these Austins compare to other bare root
roses that you have had for four months from the day you put them in
the ground?

The bare-roots I received from D.A. were amazingly vigorous; they all
sprouted within a month of being in the ground (but then, we had a lovely
sunny warm spell in Feb. when I planted them.) When I opened the box, I was
amazed at the size of the plants, their moisture content and their long,
healthy roots. Best I've ever seen in a bare root. All but Kathryn Morley
and Constance had put out growth within the first month of planting.

To compare with my other bare roots; the Austins are now anywhere from 2 to
5 times bigger, and have certainly bloomed better in their first flush than
my other bare-roots, no matter where they came from. A couple of my Home
Depot bare roots have only managed 1 or 2 blooms, with no new canes-barely
clinging to life. One finally died. Others are doing great, with new canes
and a respectable show of 5-8 nice-sized blooms. Puzzling. For sheer vigor,
the Austins have it. But the ugly mildew, the blah color, and the quick
demise of blooms outweighs their positives for me.

Environment: I live in Santa Barbara, CA (Sunset zone 24, I think). Mild
winters, pleasant summers. Not much summer sun or real heat. Mildew is an
issue, I've found out! Rust, too. Cool, foggy mornings are the norm. I
garden in heavy clay, well-amended with sand and compost.

Thanks for your information, Theo. I didn't find out about the negatives of
DA roses until after I'd purchased them. (...in denial?) They do have
vigorous growth, I'll say that! My DA roses (except for Mary Rose) put the
other bare roots to shame. The climbers are the most vigorous growers and
bloomers of all!?! Go figure.

Thanks for the information on Erase; I'll have a look for it. I think I've
also got a problem with botrytis as well. sigh Oh, well, I guess I'll just
learn to appreciate the beautiful blooms all the more when they appear!

Sue in SoCal

"Theo Asir" wrote in message
s.com...

prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a
gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest
(Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Susan, I grow all these except Cadfael & Swithin.

As a disclaimer, Austins have a well
documented problem with SoCal climate.
The warmth w/ no real winter chill causes
weird wild growth.

Typically roses do very little the first year.
They just don't have the roots established
enough to do anything.

These roses grow very well for me. Mary rose
(I grow Winchester cathedral her sport) is
absolutely covered in blooms for her second flush.

Mildew is something almost every rose is suseptible to.
Many SoCal growers use a jojoba oil product called erase.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Susan Solomon" writes:

For sheer vigor,
the Austins have it. But the ugly mildew, the blah color, and the quick
demise of blooms outweighs their positives for me.

I've only grown two Austins and I hope I never sucumb to the urge to buy
another. Abraham Darby put out lots and lots of really beautiful blooms and
they smelled nice. But the plant suffered severely from blackspot, it grew and
grew and grew, long canes with very few leaves. Never a climber, just a big
ugly bush. The blooms nodded and didn't last as a cut flower. It is gone but
I did give it four years.
Heritage seems to have less blackspot, but became pretty much a climber. The
blooms are pretty and with some shade they are a lovely shell pink with a
lemony scent. The quanity of blooms is okay but they don't last a full day.
Forget cutting them, ever. This year (#4) it has decided canker is the disease
of choice. I've cut and cut, but am still loosing whole canes. I need the
space for another large rose, I expect it will be gone soon.
I think this post might fit under Shiva's "Roses I Love To Hate And The People
Who Love Them," as both of the Austin's I've tried fit the title perfectly.

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:49:55 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:



prettiest I'd seen. I looked and sighed, and finally selected 8 of the
prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a
gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest
(Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Susan, I'm curious, how do these Austins compare to other bare root
roses that you have had for four months from the day you put them in
the ground?

The bare-roots I received from D.A. were amazingly vigorous; they all
sprouted within a month of being in the ground (but then, we had a lovely
sunny warm spell in Feb. when I planted them.) When I opened the box, I was
amazed at the size of the plants, their moisture content and their long,
healthy roots. Best I've ever seen in a bare root. [...]For sheer vigor,
the Austins have it. But the ugly mildew, the blah color, and the quick
demise of blooms outweighs their positives for me.

Okay, now I understand. Part of the problem is the Austins you chose,
e.g. the part about blah colors. Look at these:

http://www.justourpictures.com/roses/tradescant.html

http://village.infoweb.ne.jp/~yukino/er-pat.htm

http://www.rosegathering.com/darby.html

I couldn't find a decent picture of Happy Child, but it is a vibrant,
lovely yellow.

I agree that many of the Austins do look the same, and are in that
icky-to-me white-pinky-beige range.



Environment: I live in Santa Barbara, CA (Sunset zone 24, I think). Mild
winters, pleasant summers. Not much summer sun or real heat. Mildew is an
issue, I've found out! Rust, too. Cool, foggy mornings are the norm. I
garden in heavy clay, well-amended with sand and compost.

I see. I am in Raleigh, NC, where we get a tremendous amount of sun
and heat, along with lots of moisture. Perhaps the heat here helps my
Austins--but maintaining a regulare preventive anti-fungal spray
program keeps mine clean. I don't think there is a rose alive that
wouldn't spot or mildew if I didn't.

(Shiva) wrote in message ws.com...
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:50:54 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:

Well, it's my own fault. . .

I love looking at catalogs, and the David Austin color catalog is one of the
prettiest I'd seen. I looked and sighed, and finally selected 8 of the
prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest (Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Well, I'm trying not to make a snap decision and grab the shovel without
giving them a fair shake, but after 4 months of growth from bare-root and
the first bloom, I am distinctly unimpressed with Austin's roses.

FOUR MONTHS?

Susan, I'm curious, how do these Austins compare to other bare root
roses that you have had for four months from the day you put them in
the ground?


i think they need another year ,4 months and already judge???

St. Swithin ; in my garden (europe belgium) very healthy and
constantly blooming but i grow it as a shrub.
Glamis Castle ; indeed some mildew end small but compact, not a winner
Heritage ; very healthy ,maybe the ones you have needs some roots
(time) ,veryvery beautiful

Mary rose i have seen in a big bed in Schevenigen-Holland and they
were great

the english roses are not so prolific bloomers because they carry
scent i guess

"aswhad" wrote in message
om...
(Shiva) wrote in message
ws.com...
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:50:54 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:

Well, it's my own fault. . .

I love looking at catalogs, and the David Austin color catalog is one
of the
prettiest I'd seen. I looked and sighed, and finally selected 8 of the
prettiest for my rose garden. Four climbers to go on the corners of a
gazebo
(St. Swithin, Bro. Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Constance Spry), the rest
(Mary
Rose, Evelyn, Glamys Castle, Heritage) for the rose bed.

Well, I'm trying not to make a snap decision and grab the shovel
without
giving them a fair shake, but after 4 months of growth from bare-root
and
the first bloom, I am distinctly unimpressed with Austin's roses.

FOUR MONTHS?

Susan, I'm curious, how do these Austins compare to other bare root
roses that you have had for four months from the day you put them in
the ground?


i think they need another year ,4 months and already judge???

St. Swithin ; in my garden (europe belgium) very healthy and
constantly blooming but i grow it as a shrub.
Glamis Castle ; indeed some mildew end small but compact, not a winner
Heritage ; very healthy ,maybe the ones you have needs some roots
(time) ,veryvery beautiful

Mary rose i have seen in a big bed in Schevenigen-Holland and they
were great

the english roses are not so prolific bloomers because they carry
scent i guess

Thanks for your comments, Aswhad... I probably am a little quick on the draw
with the shovel!
I'll spray them for mildew and let them grow a while longer. But I do wish
the Austin blooms lasted longer!

Sue in SoCal
probably expecting too much too soon

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:45:46 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:


Thanks for your comments, Aswhad... I probably am a little quick on the draw
with the shovel!
I'll spray them for mildew and let them grow a while longer. But I do wish
the Austin blooms lasted longer!

Sue in SoCal
probably expecting too much too soon


You know, Susan, they really do shatter quickly, that never changes.
It doesn't bother me at all for two reasons,

1. I don't mind replacing vase roses every day if need be. It is my
early morning ritual to go out and look at the roses. When I have
roses that shatter quickly, such as the rose Scentimental, which I
would not be without, but shatters after a SINGLE DAY, I just grow
more of them so I always have more blooms.

2. For me, there is something creepy about a rose that has been in a
vase for a week. Like spoiled produce. The longest I will keep a rose
in a vase is four days, changing the water daily.

Perhaps you might start a thread such as "Roses With Long Vase Life."
Then those who know can help you choose next year's batch!

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Shiva.
Although I do occasionally cut a bouquet if rain is predicted, I really
don't grow my roses to cut and bring into the house .. I want them to sit
out there in the garden and bloom their heads off! The picture window by my
dining room table looks out over my rose garden. It's such a pleasure to sit
and drink my tea and muse on the roses in bloom that day, or go out and walk
the paths and inspect my beauties! Too often the Austins are just a pile of
petals on the ground. I want it all! Beautiful form, color, vigor, lasting
quality!

Well, this is my first experience with trying to grow roses to reach their
maximum output, rather than just blythely fertilizing and watering when the
mood struck. I can see that I have a LOT to learn!!

Thanks to you and all the group for their responses ...
Sue



"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:45:46 GMT, "Susan Solomon"
wrote:


Thanks for your comments, Aswhad... I probably am a little quick on the
draw
with the shovel!
I'll spray them for mildew and let them grow a while longer. But I do
wish
the Austin blooms lasted longer!

Sue in SoCal
probably expecting too much too soon


You know, Susan, they really do shatter quickly, that never changes.
It doesn't bother me at all for two reasons,

1. I don't mind replacing vase roses every day if need be. It is my
early morning ritual to go out and look at the roses. When I have
roses that shatter quickly, such as the rose Scentimental, which I
would not be without, but shatters after a SINGLE DAY, I just grow
more of them so I always have more blooms.

2. For me, there is something creepy about a rose that has been in a
vase for a week. Like spoiled produce. The longest I will keep a rose
in a vase is four days, changing the water daily.

Perhaps you might start a thread such as "Roses With Long Vase Life."
Then those who know can help you choose next year's batch!