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Old 12-06-2003, 03:20 PM
Rose
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

Xref: kermit rec.gardens.roses:93841

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?

Many thanks in advance.

Rose (yes, that really is my name :-)

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Old 12-06-2003, 05:20 PM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

In article , Rose
wrote:

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?

Many thanks in advance.

Rose (yes, that really is my name :-)


What part of the country are you in, Rose? And what does this rose look
like?

There are a number of ways to convince a rose to propagate, from taking
cuttings in all different seasons (spring, late summer, mid-winter),
rooting in different media (sand, garden soil, oasis), or even digging
up a sucker with roots, effectively dividing up the rose.

Give us an idea of what we're working with, and we can give you some
suggestions.

--
-=-
Cass
USDA Zone 9 Left Coast
www.rosefog.us
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Old 13-06-2003, 03:44 PM
Rose
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

Cass wrote in message . ..
In article , Rose
wrote:

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?

Many thanks in advance.

Rose (yes, that really is my name :-)


What part of the country are you in, Rose? And what does this rose look
like?


I live in Zone 5, near South Bend, IN. The rosebush has no name - I'm
not sure if my grandfather made a hybrid (he was trained in
agriculture) or this is simply a kind of old-fashioned bush. I'll see
if I can find a picture close to it out here on the internet. I'm
betting it's some kind of an old-fashioned though. The roses are
hot/deep pink in color with yellow centers and the blooms can get as
large as a luncheon-sized plate. They open completely. They do smell
wonderful and that scent carries on the wind for quite a distance.
Her neighbors have told her how much they enjoy smelling it. Right
now the bush is huge. My sister thinks there are more than 500
blossoms on this bush. It is literally starting to cover a good part
of the back of her house.

There are a number of ways to convince a rose to propagate, from taking
cuttings in all different seasons (spring, late summer, mid-winter),
rooting in different media (sand, garden soil, oasis), or even digging
up a sucker with roots, effectively dividing up the rose.


I'm willing to try anything. Grandpa had made a bush for each of his
three daughters but the other two died. This is the only one left.

I'm also wondering about planting soil. I live not too far from a
creek (about 500 yards) and the soil around me is a clay composition.
How should I amend the soil for planting the shoots?

Give us an idea of what we're working with, and we can give you some
suggestions.


I hope the above helps. And many thanks for your help.

Rose
  #4   Report Post  
Old 13-06-2003, 04:44 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

On 13 Jun 2003 06:34:33 -0700, (Rose) wrote:

Cass wrote in message . ..
In article , Rose
wrote:

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?

Many thanks in advance.

Rose (yes, that really is my name :-)


What part of the country are you in, Rose? And what does this rose look
like?


I live in Zone 5, near South Bend, IN. The rosebush has no name - I'm
not sure if my grandfather made a hybrid (he was trained in
agriculture) or this is simply a kind of old-fashioned bush. I'll see
if I can find a picture close to it out here on the internet. I'm
betting it's some kind of an old-fashioned though. The roses are
hot/deep pink in color with yellow centers and the blooms can get as
large as a luncheon-sized plate. They open completely. They do smell
wonderful and that scent carries on the wind for quite a distance.
Her neighbors have told her how much they enjoy smelling it. Right
now the bush is huge. My sister thinks there are more than 500
blossoms on this bush. It is literally starting to cover a good part
of the back of her house.


You should take a picture of this and post it (on Yahoo or on a web
site, not here).

Maybe someone here could identify it.

There are a number of ways to convince a rose to propagate, from taking
cuttings in all different seasons (spring, late summer, mid-winter),
rooting in different media (sand, garden soil, oasis), or even digging
up a sucker with roots, effectively dividing up the rose.


I'm willing to try anything. Grandpa had made a bush for each of his
three daughters but the other two died. This is the only one left.

I'm also wondering about planting soil. I live not too far from a
creek (about 500 yards) and the soil around me is a clay composition.
How should I amend the soil for planting the shoots?


Dig a big hole and backfill with a quality topsoil/potting
soil/compost/sand/peat mixture. It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.

Give us an idea of what we're working with, and we can give you some
suggestions.


I hope the above helps. And many thanks for your help.

Rose


A picture would be most helpful.

  #6   Report Post  
Old 13-06-2003, 05:44 PM
Ol' Thornfinger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.


Just out of curiosity, why? Besides its being ridiculously expensive...
I have used this stuff from time to time, especially with my potted roses.

_Thorn_


  #7   Report Post  
Old 13-06-2003, 06:08 PM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:35:42 -0400, "Ol' Thornfinger"
wrote:

It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.


Just out of curiosity, why? Besides its being ridiculously expensive...
I have used this stuff from time to time, especially with my potted roses.

_Thorn_


There's nothing "wrong" with MiracleGro and it's ilk--the water
soluable fertilizers--they deliver some of the essential chemical
compounds roses and other plants need. I think any problems may lie in
using this type of fertilizer to the exclusion of all other kinds, for
two reasons that I can think of. The first is that there may be a
buildup of salt and salt compounds; the second is the fact that roses
need "organic" nutrients too, for reasons akin to those for why WE
need whole foods and not just chemical extracts such as vitamin
supplements. There are minor trace elements and minerals present in
the whole foods that we know are beneficial--and then there is the
fact that roses, like people, just plain DO better when given whole
"foods." For us it might be Branola, for them a nice chunky manure and
maybe some alfalfa, leaf mold, etc.

An "unofficial" reason, for me: I used MiracleGro type stuff for the
first couple of years, and never saw dramatic growth like basal shoots
that actually increase the number of big, healthy canes. Once I
started using MIll's MIx (alfalfa, sludge, other whole stuff) I did
see dramatic growth and more blooms. Was it the MIlls or was it the
fact that most of my roses were in their third and fourth years? I
don't know. Probably both.






  #8   Report Post  
Old 13-06-2003, 06:08 PM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:35:42 -0400, "Ol' Thornfinger"
wrote:

It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.


Just out of curiosity, why? Besides its being ridiculously expensive...
I have used this stuff from time to time, especially with my potted roses.

_Thorn_


Damn. Sorry about the first post, I was speed reading again! The only
time I have heard people say NOT to use the treated soil is when the
subject is planting bare roots, which should not be fertilized until
they have a few inches of top growth. There should not be a problem
with planting potted roses in this stuff.

  #9   Report Post  
Old 13-06-2003, 06:08 PM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

In article , Rose
wrote:

Cass wrote in message
. ..
In article , Rose
wrote:

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?

Many thanks in advance.

Rose (yes, that really is my name :-)


What part of the country are you in, Rose? And what does this rose look
like?


I live in Zone 5, near South Bend, IN. The rosebush has no name - I'm
not sure if my grandfather made a hybrid (he was trained in
agriculture) or this is simply a kind of old-fashioned bush. I'll see
if I can find a picture close to it out here on the internet. I'm
betting it's some kind of an old-fashioned though. The roses are
hot/deep pink in color with yellow centers and the blooms can get as
large as a luncheon-sized plate. They open completely. They do smell
wonderful and that scent carries on the wind for quite a distance.
Her neighbors have told her how much they enjoy smelling it. Right
now the bush is huge. My sister thinks there are more than 500
blossoms on this bush. It is literally starting to cover a good part
of the back of her house.

There are a number of ways to convince a rose to propagate, from taking
cuttings in all different seasons (spring, late summer, mid-winter),
rooting in different media (sand, garden soil, oasis), or even digging
up a sucker with roots, effectively dividing up the rose.


I'm willing to try anything. Grandpa had made a bush for each of his
three daughters but the other two died. This is the only one left.

I'm also wondering about planting soil. I live not too far from a
creek (about 500 yards) and the soil around me is a clay composition.
How should I amend the soil for planting the shoots?


Are you talking about digging up a sucker, with roots? I would go to a
local plant nursery and mooch a free 5 gallon pot. Fill it with the
most extravagant soil you can concoct. Your native clay is probably
rich, if it's from a creekbed. Lighten it with compost or soil
amendment so that it drains easily. That can take up to a 50 - 50
blend. Dig up a cane from as far from the plant as possible. That way
it is most likely to have a few feeder roots. It is probably attached
to the mother plant by a big, thick, woody root. Take as much of that
root as you can possibly fit in the pot. Cut the top off the cane,
leaving it about a foot long. Bury it in the pot deep - as deep as
possible and still leaving about 4 bud eyes above the soil. Put this
pot out in the full sun -- but you have to do something very important:
you need to spritz the can with water twice a day and more if you think
about it. You can cover it with a clear or milky liter soda bottle
with the bottom cut off, making a miniature greenhouse. This is not
necessary, probably, given your humidities. It works well in off
seasons to gather heat. Don't apply fertilizer at all during this
process.

Then wait. Wait until after you see not only leaves but new stems about
3 inches long. It can take several months. It can take a really long
time. That when you have a new rose, especially if you see little white
feeder roots coming out of the drain holes. You should put it in the
ground by August, with any luck. And you might need to give it some
winter protection this winter.

You should also probably try alternative methods of taking softwood
cuttings from this bloom cycle. Read about it at the American Rose
Society website - ars.org I like the oasis method. Choose stems that
have flowered and are about as big around as a cheap Papermate pen -
even a little smaller. Trim off the flowers and keep only about 5 or 10
leaves - and cut those in half. The stems should be about 6 to 10
inches long, with two or three growth nodes in the oasis and at least
two above the oasis. You can get oasis at hardware stores or crafts
stores. Keep the cutting out of direct light and keep the cutting
sprtized. Mine is in the kitchen and I douse it every time I think
about it. When you see roots growing out of the oasis, put the whole
plant, oasis and all, in a 1 gallon pot of good soil. Don't rely on top
growth - it's roots you want. Read the article at the rose site for
details. It with a group about propagation. Here's a cutting in
progress about a month now:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...ages/Oasis.jpg

Don't worry if the leaves fall off. Some roses do that - most, in fact.
As long as the stem is green, you're in business.

I'd also simultaneously try two or three softwood cuttings in that good
garden soil with a soda bottle greenhouse. You need to water it every
day. Some roses won't root in oasis and will take right off in old
garden soil.

This way, you have three shots at propagating the rose. If you have a
summer veggie garden that gets daily water, that is a terrific place to
propagate rose cuttings.

--
-=-
Cass
USDA Zone 9 Left Coast
www.rosefog.us
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Old 13-06-2003, 06:32 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:11:34 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:35:42 -0400, "Ol' Thornfinger"
wrote:

It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.


Just out of curiosity, why? Besides its being ridiculously expensive...
I have used this stuff from time to time, especially with my potted roses.

_Thorn_


There's nothing "wrong" with MiracleGro and it's ilk--the water
soluable fertilizers--they deliver some of the essential chemical
compounds roses and other plants need. I think any problems may lie in
using this type of fertilizer to the exclusion of all other kinds, for
two reasons that I can think of. The first is that there may be a
buildup of salt and salt compounds; the second is the fact that roses
need "organic" nutrients too, for reasons akin to those for why WE
need whole foods and not just chemical extracts such as vitamin
supplements. There are minor trace elements and minerals present in
the whole foods that we know are beneficial--and then there is the
fact that roses, like people, just plain DO better when given whole
"foods." For us it might be Branola, for them a nice chunky manure and
maybe some alfalfa, leaf mold, etc.


I was talking about the prepackaged MiracleGro soil, with the
fertilizer built in.

Seems like there's been little success reported with roses with this
type of soil. Maybe it shocks the roses, I dunno. I've never used it,
but I don't have to do *any* amendments to my soil anyway. I'm just
reporting my impressions from my time on the newsgroup.

An "unofficial" reason, for me: I used MiracleGro type stuff for the
first couple of years, and never saw dramatic growth like basal shoots
that actually increase the number of big, healthy canes. Once I
started using MIll's MIx (alfalfa, sludge, other whole stuff) I did
see dramatic growth and more blooms. Was it the MIlls or was it the
fact that most of my roses were in their third and fourth years? I
don't know. Probably both.


I do the alfalfa meal/Osmocote/blood/bone meal/epson salt thing and I
hit them with MiracleGro every month or so and every couple of months,
fresh Osmocote (I just put a second dose down). Seems to work pretty
well. I keep saying I'm going to try Mill's (and Neem Oil for that
matter), but I never do. Maybe I'll buy some at the end of the season,
when my expenses are lower...



  #12   Report Post  
Old 13-06-2003, 07:32 PM
Shiva
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

Rose wrote:

The original poster asked:

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?


Then Henry said:

An easy way, particularly on a climber and when you have "long-term"
access to the rose (as it sounds like you do) is to "layer" the rose.
The trick here is to get the rose to root a stem without cutting the
stem off first. Take a cane and lie it down on the ground. With your
thumbnail, score the cane over a short bit, a couple inches should work
fine. Bury that scored section of the cane in the ground or in a pot
and hold it down with a rock or bamboo canes bent back on themselves.
It needs to be well buried, say three or four inches. Keep the are
watered as you do the rest of the garden. If it dries out, particularly
after roots have started forming, they will die and you'll have to start
over. If you have rooting hormone, you can use that but since there's
less rush with this method, it's not really necessary. Just let it stay
like that and eventually, you will have another plant. Wait at least
two months before checking for roots. Cut the stem below where you
buried it (on the side towards the "mother plant") and dig it up.


Henry, this is the first propagation method that actually sounds
attractive enough that I want to try it. Have you done this much, and
what sort of results have you had?


With more rigid roses, air layering is an option. In this case, you
wrap the area where you want roots to grow in wet sphagnum moss and then
with plastic.


I've seen this, and it looks more complicate, but still better than
budding.

By the way, your posts do not show up in teranews, so I miss a lot of
them. Cotse has been down lately and I hate reading in OE.

--
Henry

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Old 13-06-2003, 11:08 PM
Rose
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

"Ol' Thornfinger" wrote in message ...
It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.


Just out of curiosity, why?


Why try for an off-shoot of this rosebush? Or are you talking about
the MiracleGro?

Besides its being ridiculously expensive...
I have used this stuff from time to time, especially with my potted roses.

_Thorn_


To answer the first question: because Grandpa grew them. He gave them
as gifts to his daughters to be passed down. The eldest had no
children and the second daughter's family is currently being ravaged
by Huntington's Korea. My mother and our family are the only ones
left to pass this on to. Family means a lot to us. While we don't
live in the past (Grandma would have had a fit if we had ever done
that), we do honor our ancestors and the heritage that they have
passed on to us.

As for the MiracleGro, well, I have no answer.

Rose
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Old 13-06-2003, 11:08 PM
Rose
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starting a new climbing rosebush

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 13 Jun 2003 06:34:33 -0700, (Rose) wrote:

Cass wrote in message . ..
In article , Rose
wrote:

I hope someone here can help me. We have, in the family, an
80-year-old climbing rosebush that my grandfather had started. I've
tried several times, using various methods in books, to get new plants
started from it but I can't seem to get them to root. Does anyone
have a method that would work for a "non-gardener"?

Many thanks in advance.

Rose (yes, that really is my name :-)

What part of the country are you in, Rose? And what does this rose look
like?


I live in Zone 5, near South Bend, IN. The rosebush has no name - I'm
not sure if my grandfather made a hybrid (he was trained in
agriculture) or this is simply a kind of old-fashioned bush. I'll see
if I can find a picture close to it out here on the internet. I'm
betting it's some kind of an old-fashioned though. The roses are
hot/deep pink in color with yellow centers and the blooms can get as
large as a luncheon-sized plate. They open completely. They do smell
wonderful and that scent carries on the wind for quite a distance.
Her neighbors have told her how much they enjoy smelling it. Right
now the bush is huge. My sister thinks there are more than 500
blossoms on this bush. It is literally starting to cover a good part
of the back of her house.


You should take a picture of this and post it (on Yahoo or on a web
site, not here).

Maybe someone here could identify it.

There are a number of ways to convince a rose to propagate, from taking
cuttings in all different seasons (spring, late summer, mid-winter),
rooting in different media (sand, garden soil, oasis), or even digging
up a sucker with roots, effectively dividing up the rose.


I'm willing to try anything. Grandpa had made a bush for each of his
three daughters but the other two died. This is the only one left.

I'm also wondering about planting soil. I live not too far from a
creek (about 500 yards) and the soil around me is a clay composition.
How should I amend the soil for planting the shoots?


Dig a big hole and backfill with a quality topsoil/potting
soil/compost/sand/peat mixture. It seems to be the consensus around
here that you should avoid fertilizer-treated soil like MiracleGro.

Give us an idea of what we're working with, and we can give you some
suggestions.


I hope the above helps. And many thanks for your help.

Rose


A picture would be most helpful.


I hope to get pictures taken this weekend and put on a website on Monday.

Rose
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