"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
My first couple of years growing roses, the very phrase "shovel prune" rubbed me the wrong way. How damned insensitive of those wasteful people, I thought. Especially if they announced "shovel pruning" one I really liked, or thought I might. Well, I think I finally understand. I'm out there today, short on time, long on weeds, blackspot, deadheading, and spraying. All kinds of ugly leaves, canes, insect colonies, still roses to be potted, two more vole casualties to put to rest. (MY FIRST Granada and their SECOND Reine des Violettes.) I'm tired and hot as a paper pusher can be on a NC 90-degree June day. I'm looking at the front bed, the first bed I planted. The ones that need to go just leap out at me. George Burns. Not one more day am I going to look at those Calvinesque (the kid, not the Reformer) cowlicky blooms and that stumpy, ugly bush shape. Nicole. HUGE and ungainly, pretty flowers, but NO SCENT at all. It has overpowered the front bed for the last time. I go back to the garage, get the permatil, gather the pots, shovel, loppers, soil. I plan to pot both roses up, see if I can give them away or maybe I'll just keep them in pots. I have others to put in their place. And then it hits me--how perfectly simple and beautiful it would be to cut them up, dig them up, and toss them out with the yard trash. Several less things to worry about. More room for pretty roses that I love or other dogs I want to try! There seems to be a whole circuit we travel with this rose-growing thing, with many common stops along the way, where most of us eventually rest, even if only for a while. I am at the one labeled "Discover the Joy of Guiltless Shovel Pruning!" Where are you? |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
Admittedly, I don't -- yet! -- have enough roses (more than 5, less
than 15) to actually qualify as being at a stage in the "shovel pruning" journey, as it were, I see shovel pruning as a chance for me to exercise (pun) freedom of choice! Also, the digging necessary to help an underperforming rose find its true destiny would seem to be an easier task than planting said rose in the first place. (This makes sense only for the roses that I actually planted, since I know how big the holes were that I dug! Also, I have "seen the light" and its name is mini-tiller!) Shovel pruning roses is, frankly, easier for me to accept than the fact that I actually am growing roses in the first place! I was one of those people who "hated" the smell of roses -- most likely because I'd been subjected to the scent of Joy perfume (I think that's the one) -- I couldn't even stand to have roses in a vase in the house! Now, however, I can exercise my freedom of choice -- although my choice may seem limiting to some people. (I'm one of those tiresome people who orders the same thing at the same restaurants -- "because it was so good last time" -- so I'm sure that next year, I'll be planting another Graham Thomas and yet another Abraham Darby (now *that* fragrance could have made me a rose fanatic years ago!), and it's okay! I'm okay, you're okay, we're all okay! (Actually, I may be lucky to be typing at all if I spend much more time around Tropical Paradise -- it seems to be a prodigious thorn-producer, but hey -- if I can get an entire vaseful of flowers by picking one stem, what the heck?) Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Unique Too" wrote in message ... (Shiva) writes: My first couple of years growing roses, the very phrase "shovel prune" rubbed me the wrong way. How damned insensitive of those wasteful people, I thought. Especially if they announced "shovel pruning" one I really liked, or thought I might. And the cost. Some people talked about shovel pruning lots of roses, just because they didn't like them. How could someone not like a rose, any rose? And then they just bought more, wow, what a waste of money. Well, I think I finally understand. I'm out there today, short on time, long on weeds, blackspot, deadheading, and spraying. All kinds of ugly leaves, canes, insect colonies, still roses to be potted, two more vole casualties to put to rest. (MY FIRST Granada and their SECOND Reine des Violettes.) I'm tired and hot as a paper pusher can be on a NC 90-degree June day. I'm looking at the front bed, the first bed I planted. The ones that need to go just leap out at me. George Burns. Not one more day am I going to look at those Calvinesque (the kid, not the Reformer) cowlicky blooms and that stumpy, ugly bush shape. Nicole. HUGE and ungainly, pretty flowers, but NO SCENT at all. It has overpowered the front bed for the last time. I go back to the garage, get the permatil, gather the pots, shovel, loppers, soil. I plan to pot both roses up, see if I can give them away or maybe I'll just keep them in pots. I have others to put in their place. This is the next phase. Maybe I can baby it back to health, maybe someone else would like it better. Maybe it's just my climate or culteral practices. I won't shovel prune the rose, I'll save it. And then it hits me--how perfectly simple and beautiful it would be to cut them up, dig them up, and toss them out with the yard trash. Several less things to worry about. More room for pretty roses that I love or other dogs I want to try! This is the next step. Why should I even bother with a rose that I don't enjoy? Potting them up, babying them, even giving them away is extra work, I could be spending time with the roses I enjoy. The shovel it right there, it really isn't as hard or time consuming when you don't have to worry about saving the big root ball. Garbage cans. It works. Now that plant I never liked or suffered from too much disease or whatever. It's gone! More space for roses that I will enjoy, more time to care for them properly. There seems to be a whole circuit we travel with this rose-growing thing, with many common stops along the way, where most of us eventually rest, even if only for a while. I am at the one labeled "Discover the Joy of Guiltless Shovel Pruning!" Where are you? Yes, we're growing. We're learning. We're searching for the perfect roses. I recently had this conversation with someone who had given up lots and lots of roses due to a move. He had reached a point where he couldn't care for all of them, even all of the ones he enjoyed. Now the number has been cut in half. He's finding more pleasure in spending time with them, seeing them at their best with proper care. His list of roses he "must" grow has gotten much shorter. That's pretty much where I am now. I'll admit there are still a lot of roses I really would like to have. But I'm out of space, even the less than ideal locations have been filled. And I don't have the time to spend caring correctly for any more. When they are treated with the best of care they reward me with good growth and lots more pretty flowers and I enjoy them all the more. So now, it's one comes in, one goes out. So far I haven't had any problem finding the one to remove. There's always one not living up to my expectations. Yep, although it's initially painful, the shovel can feel real good. Julie |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
"Anne Lurie" writes:
Now, however, I can exercise my freedom of choice -- although my choice may seem limiting to some people. (I'm one of those tiresome people who orders the same thing at the same restaurants -- "because it was so good last time" -- so I'm sure that next year, I'll be planting another Graham Thomas and yet another Abraham Darby (now *that* fragrance could have made me a rose fanatic years ago!), and it's okay! I'm okay, you're okay, we're all okay! Another step in growing with roses. Accepting that it's okay whatever choices other people make. Myself, I only have duplicates of two roses (out of ~50). I like variety. I order something different when we eat out, just because I've never tried "that: before. It's led me to try Octopus (disgusting), escargot (love 'em), raw oysters (they're okay), fish eggs (what is the proper term? and I paid How Much for that!). But it's okay. If you are happy with fifteen roses of five varieties, that's okay with me. Shiva likes her big blowsey HTs in garish colors. I like the OGRs in mostly soft colors. She sprays on a regular basis, I'm trying to rid my gaden of BS magnets. But it's okay. We love roses, just in different ways. |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:51:57 GMT, "Anne Lurie"
wrote: Also, the digging necessary to help an underperforming rose find its true destiny would seem to be an easier task than planting said rose in the first place. Yet another excellent point. I had one bed professionally dug (supposedly he drilled beyond the hardpan into the sand for drainage, as you mentioned you did) but most of the rest were dug by me. I learned the necessity of digging only when there had been just enough rain--too much is as bad as not enough. (This makes sense only for the roses that I actually planted, since I know how big the holes were that I dug! Also, I have "seen the light" and its name is mini-tiller!) Do you own one, or rent one? Since you are right here in my area, I'd love to know what you bought, where, etc. Shovel pruning roses is, frankly, easier for me to accept than the fact that I actually am growing roses in the first place! I was one of those people who "hated" the smell of roses -- most likely because I'd been subjected to the scent of Joy perfume (I think that's the one) -- I couldn't even stand to have roses in a vase in the house! The smell on the flower is nothing like that junk. I hate floral smells on anything but fresh flowers. I don't even like the scent of dried rose petals au naturel.. [...] so I'm sure that next year, I'll be planting another Graham Thomas and yet another Abraham Darby (now *that* fragrance could have made me a rose fanatic years ago!) Anne--I chose Golden Celebration over Graham Thomas (just because I had to choose, or thought I did] and am not so thrilled with GC because unless I am not getting up early enough, it has no real scent to my nose. As for Abe, I ordered one, then killed it in the Infamous Overfertilizing Incident in which Livin' Easy, Distant Drums, Angel Wings, Radio Times, and perhaps others perished. [I am trying to forget!] I was so distraught I had to buy THREE Abraham Darbys and FOUR Distant Drums, just so that if it happened again there might be survivors! I have three ADs in a vase now. They are lucious, and do not drop their petals as quickly as some Austins. It may be a matter of minutes, but still! G (Actually, I may be lucky to be typing at all if I spend much more time around Tropical Paradise -- it seems to be a prodigious thorn-producer, but hey -- if I can get an entire vaseful of flowers by picking one stem, what the heck?) Hmm .. tottering off to Helpmedfind.com to look that one up. Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Unique Too" wrote in message ... (Shiva) writes: My first couple of years growing roses, the very phrase "shovel prune" rubbed me the wrong way. How damned insensitive of those wasteful people, I thought. Especially if they announced "shovel pruning" one I really liked, or thought I might. And the cost. Some people talked about shovel pruning lots of roses, just because they didn't like them. How could someone not like a rose, any rose? And then they just bought more, wow, what a waste of money. Well, I think I finally understand. I'm out there today, short on time, long on weeds, blackspot, deadheading, and spraying. All kinds of ugly leaves, canes, insect colonies, still roses to be potted, two more vole casualties to put to rest. (MY FIRST Granada and their SECOND Reine des Violettes.) I'm tired and hot as a paper pusher can be on a NC 90-degree June day. I'm looking at the front bed, the first bed I planted. The ones that need to go just leap out at me. George Burns. Not one more day am I going to look at those Calvinesque (the kid, not the Reformer) cowlicky blooms and that stumpy, ugly bush shape. Nicole. HUGE and ungainly, pretty flowers, but NO SCENT at all. It has overpowered the front bed for the last time. I go back to the garage, get the permatil, gather the pots, shovel, loppers, soil. I plan to pot both roses up, see if I can give them away or maybe I'll just keep them in pots. I have others to put in their place. This is the next phase. Maybe I can baby it back to health, maybe someone else would like it better. Maybe it's just my climate or culteral practices. I won't shovel prune the rose, I'll save it. And then it hits me--how perfectly simple and beautiful it would be to cut them up, dig them up, and toss them out with the yard trash. Several less things to worry about. More room for pretty roses that I love or other dogs I want to try! This is the next step. Why should I even bother with a rose that I don't enjoy? Potting them up, babying them, even giving them away is extra work, I could be spending time with the roses I enjoy. The shovel it right there, it really isn't as hard or time consuming when you don't have to worry about saving the big root ball. Garbage cans. It works. Now that plant I never liked or suffered from too much disease or whatever. It's gone! More space for roses that I will enjoy, more time to care for them properly. There seems to be a whole circuit we travel with this rose-growing thing, with many common stops along the way, where most of us eventually rest, even if only for a while. I am at the one labeled "Discover the Joy of Guiltless Shovel Pruning!" Where are you? Yes, we're growing. We're learning. We're searching for the perfect roses. I recently had this conversation with someone who had given up lots and lots of roses due to a move. He had reached a point where he couldn't care for all of them, even all of the ones he enjoyed. Now the number has been cut in half. He's finding more pleasure in spending time with them, seeing them at their best with proper care. His list of roses he "must" grow has gotten much shorter. That's pretty much where I am now. I'll admit there are still a lot of roses I really would like to have. But I'm out of space, even the less than ideal locations have been filled. And I don't have the time to spend caring correctly for any more. When they are treated with the best of care they reward me with good growth and lots more pretty flowers and I enjoy them all the more. So now, it's one comes in, one goes out. So far I haven't had any problem finding the one to remove. There's always one not living up to my expectations. Yep, although it's initially painful, the shovel can feel real good. Julie |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
I am in the same boat. I have "Grand Finale" planted in the front yard. FULL
sun, watered regularly, fertilized up the ying yang, and what do I get? Ugly white roses, that sometimes don't open, and plain look like junk. If the rose doesn't start acting normally, it shall be shovel pruned! I have JFK in the backyard, and that one doesn't perform well either. It's the last time I buy white roses! Emil Zones 9-10 |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
Shiva wrote:
On 15 Jun 2003 01:13:44 GMT, (Unique Too) wrote: Shiva likes her big blowsey HTs in garish colors. I like the OGRs in mostly soft colors. Great gooooooogly moogly, girl! I think you meant to say that I like vibrant colors and YOU liked drab colors. To-may-to, to-mah-to. -- Henry |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:41:23 -0400, Henry
wrote: Shiva wrote: On 15 Jun 2003 01:13:44 GMT, (Unique Too) wrote: Shiva likes her big blowsey HTs in garish colors. I like the OGRs in mostly soft colors. Great gooooooogly moogly, girl! I think you meant to say that I like vibrant colors and YOU liked drab colors. To-may-to, to-mah-to. Sort of my point. I'm just poking at Julie. -- Henry |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243
Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!free.teranews.c om!not-for-mail Xref: kermit rec.gardens.roses:93971 On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:44:40 -0700, "Emil" wrote: I am in the same boat. I have "Grand Finale" planted in the front yard. FULL sun, watered regularly, fertilized up the ying yang, and what do I get? Ugly white roses, that sometimes don't open, and plain look like junk. If the rose doesn't start acting normally, it shall be shovel pruned! I hate to say this, but that makes me feel better, because I looked at GF and instead chose Full Sail. Full Sail produces, as you say, "Ugly white roses, that sometimes don't open, and plain look like junk" for most of the year but in the few days of cooler, thripless weather we have in the spring and fall, it produces truly lovely creamy white, HUGE classic ht shaped blooms with great substance. Thick petals, long vase life. I had to let it live. I have JFK in the backyard, and that one doesn't perform well either. It's the last time I buy white roses! Well, Emil, you are in California, aren't you? Forgive my poor memory. There is one white rose I really like, affter trying many. It is the grandiflora White Lightening. Smallish, ruffly blooms, not great form, but a great lemony scent and does not stop blooming here. This year the baby grafted Crystalline will not stop putting out big blooms, though it was a bare root planting in March. Very lovely, classic form, snowy white with no yellow. But it is too new to tell. I am not fond of white roses because everything shows up on them--and they tend to age badly. But, just as with my quest for the best purple, I am driven to find the best white because someone I adore loves white roses. If we can't do something for love, why do anything at all? Emil Zones 9-10 |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 05:58:13 GMT, "Caterbro"
wrote: io'm still agonizing over where to put 4 6" Dr. Hueys that cropped up out of an old bed. I put stakes so they can be carefully mowed around whilst i find the perfect spot for them!:) Carl, you sweet soul. I imagine you inherited these Hueys? They can be quite impressive. There is one on the north wall of the NC Governor's mansion that is very old. It erupts every spring, stays full of blooms for at least a month, no kidding, cascading over this eight-foot wall. Then, since they do not deadhead it, it produces lovely fat orange hips that give color all winter. Have you got many blooms yet? Has it stopped raining? Yesterday I so wanted to spray (for the first time in weeks!) but it rained, as it has nearly every day for weeks unless I have a reason to be away from home all day. My poor babies look awful. Many dropped leaves. |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
"Caterbro" writes:
io'm still agonizing over where to put 4 6" Dr. Hueys that cropped up out of an old bed. I put stakes so they can be carefully mowed around whilst i find the perfect spot for them!:) Been there, done that. The good Doctor is no longer with us. In fact, he was the first rose I shovel pruned. He did have pretty blooms for a few weeks, then defoliated from blackspot. Also the first rose in my garden to ever suffer from powdery mildew. I never felt a bit of guilt about putting his reamins in the garbage can. |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
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"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
Im my own defense, I'm not quite as self-limiting as my post may have
seemed! When I mentioned having between5 & 15 roses, I didn't mean to suggest that I had 15 roses of only 5 varieties total -- just that I was too lazy to go out & count them before I posted! Actually, my only doubles are Abraham Darby & Blaze (the former because of the scent; the latter, because the arbor has two sides). And I have 15 roses because I'm just getting started on my "slide down the slippery slope"! (Life was really easier when I spent my creative choices on tomato seeds to start.) I guess you can really tell I'm a rosanewbie, because I don't even know what BS stands for? (I mean I know how I've understood it for the last 40 years or so, but I doubt that's what you meant!) Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Unique Too" wrote in message ... "Anne Lurie" writes: Now, however, I can exercise my freedom of choice -- although my choice may seem limiting to some people. (I'm one of those tiresome people who orders the same thing at the same restaurants -- "because it was so good last time" -- so I'm sure that next year, I'll be planting another Graham Thomas and yet another Abraham Darby (now *that* fragrance could have made me a rose fanatic years ago!), and it's okay! I'm okay, you're okay, we're all okay! Another step in growing with roses. Accepting that it's okay whatever choices other people make. Myself, I only have duplicates of two roses (out of ~50). I like variety. I order something different when we eat out, just because I've never tried "that: before. It's led me to try Octopus (disgusting), escargot (love 'em), raw oysters (they're okay), fish eggs (what is the proper term? and I paid How Much for that!). But it's okay. If you are happy with fifteen roses of five varieties, that's okay with me. Shiva likes her big blowsey HTs in garish colors. I like the OGRs in mostly soft colors. She sprays on a regular basis, I'm trying to rid my gaden of BS magnets. But it's okay. We love roses, just in different ways. |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
"Caterbro" writes:
mine are well-nigh indestructible- the only downside is the one short blooming- no BS or mildew- few bugs, drought tolerant, etc., etc, If mine had been like that, he would still be aorund. I really liked the blooms and could probably live with them once a year. But all those long bare canes for 10 months a year I could not handle. |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
"Anne Lurie" writes:
When I mentioned having between5 & 15 roses, I didn't mean to suggest that I had 15 roses of only 5 varieties total -- just that I was too lazy to go out & count them before I posted! I didn't mean to offend, I was only playing off the numbers you used. I really didn't think you had only 5 varieties. Actually, my only doubles are Abraham Darby & Blaze (the former because of the scent; the latter, because the arbor has two sides). And I have 15 roses because I'm just getting started on my "slide down the slippery slope"! (Life was really easier when I spent my creative choices on tomato seeds to start.) Um, well, I think my life is simpler since roses, before roses I had kids and no creative choices. :) And I have doubles of LaMarne, I think that's the only one. I guess you can really tell I'm a rosanewbie, because I don't even know what BS stands for? (I mean I know how I've understood it for the last 40 years or so, but I doubt that's what you meant!) BS=Blackspot. Here in the humid swamp BS (my term) is just some of the BS (your term) you have to deal with on many roses. Julie |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
When I first bought my home, I was an avid gardener. Vegetable garden,
apple trees, seven rose beds all over the yard. Being in zone 3/4, I had lots of fall and spring work but had no kids, a job with a big company, and plenty of free time. About eight years ago with three kids in sports, my own small company, and no time, I looked at the spring wreckage of my landscape, seeded the vegetable garden, gave away all my rose bushes, put in rock. A couple of weeks ago, I drove past a nursery and thought how nice one of their potted roses would look in an empty spot near my front door. Planted one the next day. Last week I put in some raised beds and planted tomatos and cucumbers. I hope its not starting again. |
"Shovel Prune" Epiphany
"Caterbro" wrote in
: (Shiva) wrote in m: There seems to be a whole circuit we travel with this rose-growing thing, with many common stops along the way, where most of us eventually rest, even if only for a while. I am at the one labeled "Discover the Joy of Guiltless Shovel Pruning!" Where are you? io'm still agonizing over where to put 4 6" Dr. Hueys that cropped up out of an old bed. I put stakes so they can be carefully mowed around whilst i find the perfect spot for them!:) I have a couple bay Dr. Huey's too. I'm happy enough with my full-sized one to want more so I rescued a couple and now have them growing on their own. I tried shovel-pruning only once and was sorry (a Nearly Wild that wasn't performing). I understand the necessity in some cases and have no trouble refraining from anthropomorphizing my plants. Old bedding plants or misbehaving shurbs get the boot reguarly. But with roses I don't seem to be able to do it. Just the other week I dug up two Jeanne LaJoie plants that have been with me nearly ten years and have ill-performed for me. This is their third permutation; first they were in pots, then in the ground, now back in two-gallon containers while I rejuvenate their foliage and figure out where they'll go next. I have plenty of neighbors begging me to give them a rose garden that looks like mine. Of course I won't do that exactly but I find that donating my under-performers to the neighbors (or the neighborhood) helps me feel that there's a second or third chance lurking for them, and often the change in venue makes a world of difference. It's more a challenge to me to prove to myself that the rose really has a raison d'etre...and that I can find out what it is if I just explore what it really wants. To each his or her own, though. Perhaps when I have two hundred roses to contend with I'll be singing a slightly different tune. ---- |
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