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Old 16-06-2003, 04:04 PM
Kirra
 
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Default How to choose (limit) roses?

Ok, so how does everyone do it? Between three of us sharing a rose garden
2.5m x 6m and another bed of another 22m x (1m-2.5m) we have a *short* list
of 65 different roses! We have listed them all with their colour and type
and are going to try fit as much in as possible. Bu it seems everytime I
flip through a rose book or read some posts here I think, "maybe I should
try a ..."? Aaack!

Kirra
Brisbane, Australia
zone 10



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Old 16-06-2003, 04:11 PM
Theo Asir
 
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Default How to choose (limit) roses?


Doing some quick calculations
I have a feeling you're gonna be
seriously over crowded unless
all your roses are 18"x18" midgets.

To give you an idea I just finished planting
my 1m x 10m bed with 6 roses. Min 5' center
to center.

Overcrowding causes disease & maintenance
problems. There is a case for squeezing together
tough colorful roses that you want to make a nice
stand with. but they must be tough and disease
resistant and must have a nice habit. I have planted
4 x 2m bush roses in a 3m bed and they are growing
together nicely but I carefully selected them for this purpose.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Kirra" wrote in message
...
Ok, so how does everyone do it? Between three of us sharing a rose garden
2.5m x 6m and another bed of another 22m x (1m-2.5m) we have a *short*

list
of 65 different roses! We have listed them all with their colour and type
and are going to try fit as much in as possible. Bu it seems everytime I
flip through a rose book or read some posts here I think, "maybe I should
try a ..."? Aaack!

Kirra
Brisbane, Australia
zone 10




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Old 16-06-2003, 06:05 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to choose (limit) roses?

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:09:16 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


Doing some quick calculations
I have a feeling you're gonna be
seriously over crowded unless
all your roses are 18"x18" midgets.

To give you an idea I just finished planting
my 1m x 10m bed with 6 roses. Min 5' center
to center.

Overcrowding causes disease & maintenance
problems. There is a case for squeezing together
tough colorful roses that you want to make a nice
stand with. but they must be tough and disease
resistant and must have a nice habit. I have planted
4 x 2m bush roses in a 3m bed and they are growing
together nicely but I carefully selected them for this purpose.


I think it depends on the type of roses you choose. For instance,
because of its upright nature, Edmunds recommended that I plant my 3
Belamis about 1 1/2 ft center to center. That allows for its normal 3
ft. spread. It should create a nice "single" bush with about a 5 - 6
foot diameter. Of course, alternately, I could have planted them
further apart and kept the plants distinctive, but I didn't really
want that American Beautyesque (the film, not the rose) row of HT
soldiers. I wanted more the effect that my big Aloha has - I think
that someone planted three separate bushes in a triangle years and
years ago and now, it just looks like one BIG plant.

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Old 16-06-2003, 06:05 PM
Theo Asir
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to choose (limit) roses?



Doing some quick calculations
I have a feeling you're gonna be
seriously over crowded unless
all your roses are 18"x18" midgets.

To give you an idea I just finished planting
my 1m x 10m bed with 6 roses. Min 5' center
to center.

Overcrowding causes disease & maintenance
problems. There is a case for squeezing together
tough colorful roses that you want to make a nice
stand with. but they must be tough and disease
resistant and must have a nice habit. I have planted
4 x 2m bush roses in a 3m bed and they are growing
together nicely but I carefully selected them for this purpose.


I think it depends on the type of roses you choose. For instance,
because of its upright nature, Edmunds recommended that I plant my 3
Belamis about 1 1/2 ft center to center. That allows for its normal 3
ft. spread. It should create a nice "single" bush with about a 5 - 6
foot diameter. Of course, alternately, I could have planted them
further apart and kept the plants distinctive, but I didn't really
want that American Beautyesque (the film, not the rose) row of HT
soldiers. I wanted more the effect that my big Aloha has - I think
that someone planted three separate bushes in a triangle years and
years ago and now, it just looks like one BIG plant.


Yes. Stands like that are useful though
I get bugged by Austin who recommends
it for all his roses. It speaks of a certain
weakness in the cultivar.

I wouldn't recommend it for different
types of rose though. As it is my Pink
Gruss An Aachen is getting overgrown
by the Pilgrim 4' away.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


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Old 16-06-2003, 07:56 PM
Ol' Thornfinger
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to choose (limit) roses?


"Theo Asir" wrote

Yes. Stands like that are useful though
I get bugged by Austin who recommends
it for all his roses. It speaks of a certain
weakness in the cultivar.


I think it speaks more to his desire to sell you 3 plants
rather that 1...






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Old 16-06-2003, 08:20 PM
Unique Too
 
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Default How to choose (limit) roses?

"Kirra" writes:

Ok, so how does everyone do it? Between three of us sharing a rose garden
2.5m x 6m and another bed of another 22m x (1m-2.5m) we have a *short* list
of 65 different roses! We have listed them all with their colour and type
and are going to try fit as much in as possible. Bu it seems everytime I
flip through a rose book or read some posts here I think, "maybe I should
try a ..."? Aaack!


Kind of like piling on a plate of food at a pitch in dinner isn't it? As the
saying goes, your eyes are bigger than you stomach, only in this case your
roses are bigger than your garden.
Theo has a good point about crowding them together, although I think most of us
try to do the same thing. Only to discover the roses grow! And sometimes they
grow and grow and grow. It is much easier to give them some extra space to
start than have to move them later. Been there, done that (more than once!)
Rather then trying to fit all 65 roses in at one time, pick ~20, of different
types and start with those. You may have to pick the names out of a hat or buy
only those roses on your list that are available at a single supplier or two.
Work with those for a while. If you have some bare spots, put in a few
annuals. Some of the roses that you think you really, really must grow, will
not do well for you. Or you don't like the form, color, scent, etc.
My wish list of roses got rather long, but I knew they would never fit in my
limited space. So I began buying them a few at a time. Now when I look at
that original list, I smile. There are so many on there I no longer even
desire for one reason or another.
Take your time. Be patient. The roses will still be around.
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Old 18-06-2003, 05:09 AM
Kirra
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to choose (limit) roses?

Kind of like piling on a plate of food at a pitch in dinner isn't it? As
the
saying goes, your eyes are bigger than you stomach, only in this case your
roses are bigger than your garden.
Theo has a good point about crowding them together, although I think most

of us
try to do the same thing. Only to discover the roses grow! And sometimes

they
grow and grow and grow. It is much easier to give them some extra space

to
start than have to move them later. Been there, done that (more than

once!)
Rather then trying to fit all 65 roses in at one time, pick ~20, of

different
types and start with those. You may have to pick the names out of a hat

or buy
only those roses on your list that are available at a single supplier or

two.
Work with those for a while. If you have some bare spots, put in a few
annuals. Some of the roses that you think you really, really must grow,

will
not do well for you. Or you don't like the form, color, scent, etc.
My wish list of roses got rather long, but I knew they would never fit in

my
limited space. So I began buying them a few at a time. Now when I look

at
that original list, I smile. There are so many on there I no longer even
desire for one reason or another.
Take your time. Be patient. The roses will still be around.


Thanks everyone for the advice.

Well, we are doing two things to reduce crowding - reducing the number of
roses but also increasing the bed sizes! We chose roses from books rather
than nurseries so that we could get some warnings like "black spot magnet
don't bother!" or recommendations like "wouldn't be without it in my garden"
rather than just a pretty picture of the rose and no mention of any faults.
This of course means that now that I am searching for the roses on nursery
sites, not all of them are available. There are around 15 that I haven't
been able to find so we will just cull those.

The roses are going on a 10 acre site locally so there really isn't any
space restrictions besides what we are prepared to dig and maintain. My
father owns farming machinery (and this is on his property) and we are
planning on inviting another 6 or 7 family members/friends to help us - so
we are flexible enough to make the beds bigger if necessary. We did some
planning the other night and already decided to put in some curves, an
island feature rose and then another curved bed on the other side to
increase the space.

It seems almost like the planning and preparation is as much fun as enjoying
the flowers. We have small minis, ground covers, shrubs, cutting roses,
striped roses, some named after family, climbers (the largest to climb
through trees), modern, OGR and English roses. You could say that we have
chosen around 20 to start with, its just that it is 20 each

Looking forward to lots of flowers ...

Kirra
Brisbane, Australia
zone 10



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Old 18-06-2003, 05:32 PM
Theo Asir
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to choose (limit) roses?



Thanks everyone for the advice.

Well, we are doing two things to reduce crowding - reducing the number of
roses but also increasing the bed sizes! We chose roses from books rather
than nurseries so that we could get some warnings like "black spot magnet
don't bother!" or recommendations like "wouldn't be without it in my

garden"
rather than just a pretty picture of the rose and no mention of any

faults.
This of course means that now that I am searching for the roses on nursery
sites, not all of them are available. There are around 15 that I haven't
been able to find so we will just cull those.

The roses are going on a 10 acre site locally so there really isn't any
space restrictions besides what we are prepared to dig and maintain. My
father owns farming machinery (and this is on his property) and we are
planning on inviting another 6 or 7 family members/friends to help us - so
we are flexible enough to make the beds bigger if necessary. We did some
planning the other night and already decided to put in some curves, an
island feature rose and then another curved bed on the other side to
increase the space.

It seems almost like the planning and preparation is as much fun as

enjoying
the flowers. We have small minis, ground covers, shrubs, cutting roses,
striped roses, some named after family, climbers (the largest to climb
through trees), modern, OGR and English roses. You could say that we have
chosen around 20 to start with, its just that it is 20 each

Looking forward to lots of flowers ...

Kirra
Brisbane, Australia
zone 10


Sounds very promising.

Be prepared for a lot of variability in growth.

The English roses in particular tend
to explode into growth in US zone 10's.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


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Old 19-06-2003, 06:40 AM
Kirra
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to choose (limit) roses?

....

It seems almost like the planning and preparation is as much fun as

enjoying
the flowers. We have small minis, ground covers, shrubs, cutting roses,
striped roses, some named after family, climbers (the largest to climb
through trees), modern, OGR and English roses. You could say that we

have
chosen around 20 to start with, its just that it is 20 each

Looking forward to lots of flowers ...


Sounds very promising.

Be prepared for a lot of variability in growth.

The English roses in particular tend
to explode into growth in US zone 10's.


We are using most of the English roses as climbers or pillar roses because I
had heard that said a few times here. We are prepared that some things may
have to move, simply because we are new to this. We want to try as much out
as possible because these will be our "test" beds to see what we do and
don't like. After that we can then work on adding more of the roses we do
like and we'll also know a bit more about what their growth habits will be
like.

Kirra




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