Dave wrote:
The thing that alarms me is a purple "bruising" on the stems of Old
Blush,

Several of my roses are having a similar problem. The canes develop purplish
spots, then the cane turns yellow with spots and then dies. This condition
develops not on the small end branches, but on either a main cane or lateral.
When the cane starts to go, the tips of the branches above the cane with start
dying, looking like dieback. From spots to dead isn't long, a week or two at
the most.
If it is dieback or canker, fungicides should help. When I first noticed it, I
began spraying more regularly, but I have never used Banner Maxx more often
than 14 days.
I must wonder if the problem is not a lack of fungicide but the result of
fungicide, specifically Banner Maxx. I never had this problem until two years
ago, a few months after I started using Banner Maxx. The only roses affected
are those that are sprayed and all the sprayed roses, except Rose de Rescht,
show the same symptoms. I've read other posts, on other boards, where
dieback/canker/whatever is becoming more of problem than ever before. And I
believe more people are using Banner Maxx, it seems to be the current favorite.
I'm not accusing Banner Maxx, I'm not convinced it is the problem, but I do
wonder. It could be the roses least resistant to BS are also the least
resistant to whatever is causing this problem. I've stopped spraying the two
roses most affected, they are down to one cane already. Since I expect to
loose them anyway, they are my test roses. If the situation improves on these
two roses, I'll start spraying again, but not with Banner Maxx and see what
happens.
Anyone else having the same/similar problem?
Any comments?
Julie

Julie, I have not had the
pretty extensive damage you are
seeing. But I've seen a lot of
damage caused from spraying in high
heat when the roses is transpiring the most.

Its the heat not the sun that causes damage.

As I noted earlier My cornell
mix does this unfailingly.

As far as the least resistance to BS correlation
I can't imagine it.

In my experience most tip die back begins with the
roots. If the roots are not collecting enough nutrients
the rose begins cutting back on cane.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
The thing that alarms me is a purple "bruising" on the stems of Old
Blush,

Several of my roses are having a similar problem. The canes develop
purplish
spots, then the cane turns yellow with spots and then dies. This
condition
develops not on the small end branches, but on either a main cane or
lateral.
When the cane starts to go, the tips of the branches above the cane with
start
dying, looking like dieback. From spots to dead isn't long, a week or two
at
the most.
If it is dieback or canker, fungicides should help. When I first noticed
it, I
began spraying more regularly, but I have never used Banner Maxx more
often
than 14 days.
I must wonder if the problem is not a lack of fungicide but the result of
fungicide, specifically Banner Maxx. I never had this problem until two
years
ago, a few months after I started using Banner Maxx. The only roses
affected
are those that are sprayed and all the sprayed roses, except Rose de
Rescht,
show the same symptoms. I've read other posts, on other boards, where
dieback/canker/whatever is becoming more of problem than ever before. And
I
believe more people are using Banner Maxx, it seems to be the current
favorite.
I'm not accusing Banner Maxx, I'm not convinced it is the problem, but I
do
wonder. It could be the roses least resistant to BS are also the least
resistant to whatever is causing this problem. I've stopped spraying the
two
roses most affected, they are down to one cane already. Since I expect to
loose them anyway, they are my test roses. If the situation improves on
these
two roses, I'll start spraying again, but not with Banner Maxx and see
what
happens.
Anyone else having the same/similar problem?
Any comments?
Julie

Sorry hit send too soon.

I know of atleast 2 varieties
of canker on my roses.

The tip variety is relatively harmless.
Just cut back to clean cane.

The other one I've seen occassionally
causes black/purple spots with a whitish
raised ridge around it.

This causes loses of entire canes for me.
I've only seen it a couple of times.
I'm not sure what variety it is. I didn't mess
around with fungicides but rather cut the
entire cane away. Ouch!

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Theo Asir" wrote in message
news:e9499bf02edc4b826b787b4a3e6a1a1e@TeraNews...

Julie, I have not had the
pretty extensive damage you are
seeing. But I've seen a lot of
damage caused from spraying in high
heat when the roses is transpiring the most.

Its the heat not the sun that causes damage.

As I noted earlier My cornell
mix does this unfailingly.

As far as the least resistance to BS correlation
I can't imagine it.

In my experience most tip die back begins with the
roots. If the roots are not collecting enough nutrients
the rose begins cutting back on cane.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
The thing that alarms me is a purple "bruising" on the stems of Old
Blush,

Several of my roses are having a similar problem. The canes develop
purplish
spots, then the cane turns yellow with spots and then dies. This
condition
develops not on the small end branches, but on either a main cane or
lateral.
When the cane starts to go, the tips of the branches above the cane with
start
dying, looking like dieback. From spots to dead isn't long, a week or
two
at
the most.
If it is dieback or canker, fungicides should help. When I first
noticed
it, I
began spraying more regularly, but I have never used Banner Maxx more
often
than 14 days.
I must wonder if the problem is not a lack of fungicide but the result
of
fungicide, specifically Banner Maxx. I never had this problem until two
years
ago, a few months after I started using Banner Maxx. The only roses
affected
are those that are sprayed and all the sprayed roses, except Rose de
Rescht,
show the same symptoms. I've read other posts, on other boards, where
dieback/canker/whatever is becoming more of problem than ever before.
And
I
believe more people are using Banner Maxx, it seems to be the current
favorite.
I'm not accusing Banner Maxx, I'm not convinced it is the problem, but
I
do
wonder. It could be the roses least resistant to BS are also the least
resistant to whatever is causing this problem. I've stopped spraying
the
two
roses most affected, they are down to one cane already. Since I expect
to
loose them anyway, they are my test roses. If the situation improves on
these
two roses, I'll start spraying again, but not with Banner Maxx and see
what
happens.
Anyone else having the same/similar problem?
Any comments?
Julie

In article , Unique Too
wrote:

Dave wrote:
The thing that alarms me is a purple "bruising" on the stems of Old
Blush,

Several of my roses are having a similar problem. The canes develop purplish
spots, then the cane turns yellow with spots and then dies. This condition
develops not on the small end branches, but on either a main cane or lateral.
When the cane starts to go, the tips of the branches above the cane with start
dying, looking like dieback. From spots to dead isn't long, a week or two at
the most.
If it is dieback or canker, fungicides should help. When I first noticed it,
I
began spraying more regularly, but I have never used Banner Maxx more often
than 14 days.
I must wonder if the problem is not a lack of fungicide but the result of
fungicide, specifically Banner Maxx.

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....

I never had this problem until two years
ago, a few months after I started using Banner Maxx. The only roses affected
are those that are sprayed and all the sprayed roses, except Rose de Rescht,
show the same symptoms. I've read other posts, on other boards, where
dieback/canker/whatever is becoming more of problem than ever before. And I
believe more people are using Banner Maxx, it seems to be the current
favorite.
I'm not accusing Banner Maxx, I'm not convinced it is the problem, but I do
wonder. It could be the roses least resistant to BS are also the least
resistant to whatever is causing this problem. I've stopped spraying the two
roses most affected, they are down to one cane already. Since I expect to
loose them anyway, they are my test roses. If the situation improves on these
two roses, I'll start spraying again, but not with Banner Maxx and see what
happens.
Anyone else having the same/similar problem?
Any comments?

Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden, I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

"Theo Asir" writes:

I know of atleast 2 varieties
of canker on my roses.

The tip variety is relatively harmless.
Just cut back to clean cane.

I see some of that, but not a lot. Unless there's one of the purple spotted
canes below it.

The other one I've seen occassionally
causes black/purple spots with a whitish
raised ridge around it.

This causes loses of entire canes for me.
I've only seen it a couple of times.
I'm not sure what variety it is. I didn't mess
around with fungicides but rather cut the
entire cane away. Ouch!

No white ridges here, from purple spots on green canes to purple spots on
yellow canes to dead. I've been cutting them off as fast as I see them. But
it doesn't do much good when it just starts on another cane. Oh yea, I
sanitize the pruners between cuts.
It is painful, more than one rose is down to a single healthy cane. At least
the worst offenders are the HTs and they aren't my favs. When/if it starts on
some of my old roses I'll really by POed.

Julie

Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple spots and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing the true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are too low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots have the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied, lots of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden, I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather cooperates this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone trying to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to save the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.
I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied, lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden, I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

Yep, I'm afraid you may be on to something there, Theo. I've never seen
the rapid defoliation and death described. Since the rose *was* so
large, it could just take a while to kill it. It's been working on it
for a couple or three years, at least. I'm going to try a downy mildew
fungicide and conduct major surgery; otherwise, that thing is history.
Sad, Lavender Lassie was a beautiful thing. Got 15 of 20 waiting to
take its place.

In article 21dd0ebcc53f41fb071e16c75d2dd9e9@TeraNews, Theo Asir
wrote:

Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.
I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied, lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden, I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

Noooooo!!!

Say it Ain't so.

Your LL shrub pictures
were what made me
get mine too.

Is Sally Holmes showing similar
damage. Mine is a real tart.
gets every disease in town.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Cass" wrote in message
.. .
Yep, I'm afraid you may be on to something there, Theo. I've never seen
the rapid defoliation and death described. Since the rose *was* so
large, it could just take a while to kill it. It's been working on it
for a couple or three years, at least. I'm going to try a downy mildew
fungicide and conduct major surgery; otherwise, that thing is history.
Sad, Lavender Lassie was a beautiful thing. Got 15 of 20 waiting to
take its place.

In article 21dd0ebcc53f41fb071e16c75d2dd9e9@TeraNews, Theo Asir
wrote:

Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.
I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just
sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane
in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been
sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where
the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple
spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing
the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are
too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in
different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots
have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied,
lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think
to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden,
I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse
the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather
cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone
trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to
save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I
don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:10:39 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.

Theo, this is right on. There is a garbage shrub out by one of my
beds, it is really a weed that grows into a tough woody shrub really
fast. Among the many reasons for which I hate it (I have hacked it to
the ground three times), it gets covered with thicky, gaggy looking
white mildew all over its thick, shiny, hollyish leaves. Well--I just
checked and both Tropical Sunset and Pensioner's Voice have that
purple, bruised looking cane and are cankering all to hell.

It has been a great day, my friend. The voles killed my lovely
Sunsprite AND Lover's Lane, and it looks like White Lightnin' might be
half gone. I dug up the ownroot Scentimental beside WL and plunked it
in a pot to see if I can save it from the same. I think it is safe to
say that using thick mulch around here, especially oak leaves, is a
mistake. There was Permatil in every one of those holes, all the way
around the bottom and the sides! I think the little f*kkers went in
from above, instead of below! Wahhhhh! Two weeks ago they got Reine
des Violettes, Granada, and their second Europeana!



I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied, lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden, I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

I don't know about voles vis-a-vis roses, but for veggies, voles kill from
the ground up, as they like the wilted stems.

or so I was told -- I'm feeling a little wilted myself tonight! (35th
anniversary was tres romantic! -- and I finished Harry5 on the ride
ome -- and Graham Thomas put out for me, yowza!)

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:10:39 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.

Theo, this is right on. There is a garbage shrub out by one of my
beds, it is really a weed that grows into a tough woody shrub really
fast. Among the many reasons for which I hate it (I have hacked it to
the ground three times), it gets covered with thicky, gaggy looking
white mildew all over its thick, shiny, hollyish leaves. Well--I just
checked and both Tropical Sunset and Pensioner's Voice have that
purple, bruised looking cane and are cankering all to hell.

It has been a great day, my friend. The voles killed my lovely
Sunsprite AND Lover's Lane, and it looks like White Lightnin' might be
half gone. I dug up the ownroot Scentimental beside WL and plunked it
in a pot to see if I can save it from the same. I think it is safe to
say that using thick mulch around here, especially oak leaves, is a
mistake. There was Permatil in every one of those holes, all the way
around the bottom and the sides! I think the little f*kkers went in
from above, instead of below! Wahhhhh! Two weeks ago they got Reine
des Violettes, Granada, and their second Europeana!



I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane
in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where
the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple
spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing
the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in
different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied,
lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think
to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden,
I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather
cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone
trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I
don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

It's gross. I don't know fer sure what it is. If I were motivated, I'd
try to get a test, but I've go so many waiting in line that I'd rather
dig the bitch up. Cheer up. I'll bet downy mildew has a tough time
overwintering in St. Louie. And no, Sally suffers nothing of importance
here, tho the spent blooms will show botrytis eventually.


In article f55eb5adcf2202d5bde0d04f836b8ecd@TeraNews, Theo Asir
wrote:

Noooooo!!!

Say it Ain't so.

Your LL shrub pictures
were what made me
get mine too.

Is Sally Holmes showing similar
damage. Mine is a real tart.
gets every disease in town.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Cass" wrote in message
.. .
Yep, I'm afraid you may be on to something there, Theo. I've never seen
the rapid defoliation and death described. Since the rose *was* so
large, it could just take a while to kill it. It's been working on it
for a couple or three years, at least. I'm going to try a downy mildew
fungicide and conduct major surgery; otherwise, that thing is history.
Sad, Lavender Lassie was a beautiful thing. Got 15 of 20 waiting to
take its place.

In article 21dd0ebcc53f41fb071e16c75d2dd9e9@TeraNews, Theo Asir
wrote:

Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.
I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just
sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane
in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been
sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where
the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple
spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing
the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are
too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in
different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots
have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied,
lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think
to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden,
I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse
the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather
cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone
trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to
save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I
don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

In article m, Shiva
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:10:39 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head...

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.

Theo, this is right on. There is a garbage shrub out by one of my
beds, it is really a weed that grows into a tough woody shrub really
fast. Among the many reasons for which I hate it (I have hacked it to
the ground three times), it gets covered with thicky, gaggy looking
white mildew all over its thick, shiny, hollyish leaves. Well--I just
checked and both Tropical Sunset and Pensioner's Voice have that
purple, bruised looking cane and are cankering all to hell.

It has been a great day, my friend. The voles killed my lovely
Sunsprite AND Lover's Lane, and it looks like White Lightnin' might be
half gone. I dug up the ownroot Scentimental beside WL and plunked it
in a pot to see if I can save it from the same. I think it is safe to
say that using thick mulch around here, especially oak leaves, is a
mistake. There was Permatil in every one of those holes, all the way
around the bottom and the sides! I think the little f*kkers went in
from above, instead of below! Wahhhhh! Two weeks ago they got Reine
des Violettes, Granada, and their second Europeana!

I know that I have personally po'd the rose god. Right after I received
the word about DM from not one but *two* careful researchers, I
determined that I have improved the soil enough to attract... pocket
gophers. They have a rough time making a living here, but they've found
my raised beds. I hope they're big enough to be discouraged by wire
planting cages. So far, the bunkers excavated with my jackhammer are
secure. Sheesh. What next? Blue ice?

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:42:54 GMT, "Anne Lurie"
wrote:

I don't know about voles vis-a-vis roses, but for veggies, voles kill from
the ground up, as they like the wilted stems.

There are two kinds, pine voles that are small and burrow underground
and meadow voles that look like guinea pigs and girdle trees and such
from above ground. Lucky me, I have seen both in my yard! Where the
h*ll is all that toxic waste damage my Orthenex is supposed to cause
when I really need it?



or so I was told -- I'm feeling a little wilted myself tonight! (35th
anniversary was tres romantic! -- and I finished Harry5 on the ride
ome --

Just because of the number, and not the company, I hope. If it is age
that bothers you, please consider the alternative and feel happy! I
once heard a neat lady say "I'm not getting wrinkled, I'm just getting
more detailed."


and Graham Thomas put out for me, yowza!)

Beautiful rose. And, I have to say, of ALL my roses my Austins have
held up best in this deluge. They are all on their own roots, and have
kept their leaves and show little dieback and no canker. I am
beginning to wonder if those inevitable stumps on grafted roses invite
disease.





Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


Shiva" wrote in message
ws.com...
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:10:39 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


Cass your pictures triggered of
a memory in my head. I saw the same
damage on some grape vines
my sister grows. She told me
was a Mildew. Apparently mildew can
affect canes too.

So I went looking and this is apparently
not very well known but Downy Mildew apparently
causes these blotches on rose canes.

Theo, this is right on. There is a garbage shrub out by one of my
beds, it is really a weed that grows into a tough woody shrub really
fast. Among the many reasons for which I hate it (I have hacked it to
the ground three times), it gets covered with thicky, gaggy looking
white mildew all over its thick, shiny, hollyish leaves. Well--I just
checked and both Tropical Sunset and Pensioner's Voice have that
purple, bruised looking cane and are cankering all to hell.

It has been a great day, my friend. The voles killed my lovely
Sunsprite AND Lover's Lane, and it looks like White Lightnin' might be
half gone. I dug up the ownroot Scentimental beside WL and plunked it
in a pot to see if I can save it from the same. I think it is safe to
say that using thick mulch around here, especially oak leaves, is a
mistake. There was Permatil in every one of those holes, all the way
around the bottom and the sides! I think the little f*kkers went in
from above, instead of below! Wahhhhh! Two weeks ago they got Reine
des Violettes, Granada, and their second Europeana!



I couldn't even find a good picture but
try this one.

http://www.cruzio.com/~rbedard/devor...wnymildew.html

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City


"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
Cass writes:

I don't think it is Banner Maxx. I almost never spray fungicide and
have never used Banner Maxx. I first saw this stuff last year on
Lavender Lassie. Dormant spraying has had no effect, nor have I seen
any decrease since spraying for Fore and with Decree. I suspect that
I'm going to lose the whole plant, which will be a shame. I just sense
that it's headed for collapse. I thought is might be an effect of
spraying myself because it seems to appear down one side of the cane
in
some cases. But then I saw spots on roses that have never been sprayed
at all. I also thought it might be sun burn, but then I found where
the
sun don't shine. However, there are many different kinds of
spots....here's what I find on my rose, which could be a different
gunk:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieWorst.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...assieSpots.jpg


Kind of hard to tell by the photos. I don't see the distinct purple
spots
and
yellow cane that I see on mine. But it may be my monitor not showing
the
true
colors.
I'm pretty certain it isn't sunburn, most of the affected canes are too
low to
the ground to get direct sun.
I've used a variety of fungicides, but the only new one is the Banner
Maxx. In
looking for a cause that was the one thing I could see that I had done
differently.
A nutrient dificiency is another thought. But it's happening in
different
areas in different soil types. Both the good soil and sandy spots have
the
same problems. I haven't changed my fertilizing habits, it's varied,
lots
of
different kinds, mostly organic, but also some cheap bagged stuff.

I bought some Zyban (Cleary's 3336 combined with Fore) because of
Cleary's supposed systemic effect. That's the only thing I can think
to
do. I guess I could also try Phyton 27 for the same reason....


That's two I haven't tried. I did use a copper one this year for the
first
time. An "expert" told me that would help if it were a canker. I
couldn't see
any difference, I still continued to loose canes.


Can you post pictures? I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy
theories if I work myself up, but I think that even in my own garden,
I
have more than one think at work. For example, I think a canker is at
work also, and since it causes cane symptoms, it's easy to confuse the
two. I guess I'm going to have to get a lab test.

I need to take some photos, but I haven't yet. If the weather
cooperates
this
weekend, I'll put that on my to do list.
Lots of strange things happening with the roses lately. Is someone
trying
to
tell me they should go away? Or make me give up? Ain't gonna happen.
Where do you get a lab test? At this rate it would be worth it to save
the
roses or at least know what is going on. I'm not good with things I
don't
understand or can't figure out.

Julie

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:29:05 -0700, Cass
wrote:



I know that I have personally po'd the rose god. Right after I received
the word about DM from not one but *two* careful researchers, I
determined that I have improved the soil enough to attract... pocket
gophers.


Oh no, they are bigger than voles and so much worse, I imagine, as
they can eat more! Although, the voles just eat the roots, not much
volume wise but rather important to the plant.


They have a rough time making a living here, but they've found
my raised beds. I hope they're big enough to be discouraged by wire
planting cages. So far, the bunkers excavated with my jackhammer are
secure. Sheesh. What next? Blue ice?

Heh. I don't know. Cats are good, but if you live in a busy place and
you love cats you don't want them outseide. It is a good thing I am
past my thuper thenthitive rose growing period, or I would be beside
myself. As it is I am having some difficulty looking on the bright
side. I mean, I can plan a new bed, but why do it if they will get
those plants too? I guess I have to use permatil on all sides and on
top of the roots, too. Worst of all, I may have to scrape up all my
lovely decaying leaves. They are breeding mosquitos, too.