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Old 13-07-2003, 05:44 PM
Kellie J. Berger
 
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Default roses for a hedge?

If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a
supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would
you choose? Oh... In Houston TX zone 8/9, don't care if it has thorns or
not, repeat blooms and/or fast growing would be nice, but not necessary.

Been following the CB thread with interest, but not sure that would work w/o
a fence.

Kellie



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Old 13-07-2003, 06:44 PM
dave weil
 
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Default roses for a hedge?

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:47:19 GMT, "Kellie J. Berger"
wrote:

If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a
supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would
you choose? Oh... In Houston TX zone 8/9, don't care if it has thorns or
not, repeat blooms and/or fast growing would be nice, but not necessary.

Been following the CB thread with interest, but not sure that would work w/o
a fence.

Kellie


One thing to remember is that in a lot of climtates, many roses
defoliate during the winter. Are you cool with this or do you want an
opaque hedge?

Do you want something that can be trimmed into a fairly regular shape,
do you want a sort of "billowy" "cloudlike" hedge, or do you just want
something that separates one area from another?

If you don't mind a defoliating, arching form, fast growing,
once-blooming, orange/red hipped in the winter, green applely smelling
foliaged, cute litte five lobed pink old rosey bloomed, heavily
armored and densely branched plant, then sweet briar rose is your
man...eh...plant. It's even mentioned in Shakespeare - that's how
venerable it is.

This sucker grows big- fast! Mine is in its third season and has a
wingspread of 19 feet and it's about 7 feet tall.. It only blooms for
a month in the spring but it blooms pretty profusely during that
period. It attracts bees for pollen. It is definitely self-supporting
and grows in a sort of elongated umbrella style. It is very dense, not
only with entangled branches but also with a massive amount of
different sized thorns.

Five of them would easily cover a line of 100 feet and you should plan
for at least 10 -15 feet wide from front to rear. One thing, mine has
tended to grow with its width facing the axis of the sun. It has
definitely grown wide from north to south, presenting the "front" as
it were to the east/west axis. So, you might want to take this into
consideration when planning your hedge line, *if* you decide on this
kind of hedge. What I'm saying is that, if you aren't careful, you
might have plants that grow at angles to each other, if you can
envision this.

Here are three shots of my plant, the first when I first planted it
three years ago (about 3 months after planting), the second from May
2002 and the third from May of this year:

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/SweetBriar1st.jpg

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/SweetBriar2nd.jpg

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riar5.8.03.jpg

BTW, the dimensions in the last shot are 19 feet wide by almost 7 feet
tall (the plant is about 10 feet fromthat facing edge to the opposite
edge - envision an ellipse shape from above). My back is to the
morning sun and there's a definte "front" that's developed (which is
sort of angled in relation to my house - it's about 30 degrres off
paralell). I've read that this bush can easily get 10 - 15 feet tall
in certain climates. Remember, this is a plant that's only been in the
ground for 3 years this spring. It's about this time of year that it
really throws out a lot of new growth. I just went outside to look at
it, and the tallest upright canes are now about 8 ft. tall and they
are quite thick, so it might be another foot or two before they start
to arch downward, which is the general shape of the plant. It's really
starting to develop a canopy "umbrella" shape, but part of that is
that I've been selectively trimming lower canes so that I can mow
under it (it was tough last year, because i didn't want to trim much
at all). My point is that this won't be a hedge that seems to be solid
from the ground up, like a boxwood.

If you can deal with the short blooming period, you'll love this plant
for a hedge. The neat thing is, this is one of the few roses that has
aromatic leaves. When they get wet, they smell like green apples.

Hope this helps.

Oh yeah, here's a closeup of the blooms. Each bloom only lasts about 2
or 3 days, but they grow in groups where one blooms then the others
bloom sequentially. Each bloom is only about 2 inches or so.

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riarBlooms.jpg


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Old 14-07-2003, 12:12 AM
Cass
 
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Default roses for a hedge?

In article , dave weil
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:47:19 GMT, "Kellie J. Berger"
wrote:

If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a
supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would
you choose?


If you don't mind a *****defoliating****** arching form, fast growing,
once-blooming, orange/red hipped in the winter, green applely smelling
foliaged, cute litte five lobed pink old rosey bloomed, heavily
armored and densely branched plant, then sweet briar rose is your
man...eh...plant. It's even mentioned in Shakespeare - that's how
venerable it is.

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riar5.8.03.jpg

BTW, the dimensions in the last shot are 19 feet wide by almost 7 feet
tall (the plant is about 10 feet fromthat facing edge to the opposite
edge - envision an ellipse shape from above).

Oh yeah, here's a closeup of the blooms. Each bloom only lasts about 2
or 3 days, but they grow in groups where one blooms then the others
bloom sequentially. Each bloom is only about 2 inches or so.

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riarBlooms.jpg


Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean? I bought Lady
Penzance because I was taken with the sweetbriars. The blackspot put me
off. Is you plant Common Sweet Briar, plain ole plain ole? The foliage
looks terrific. Blackspot?
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Old 14-07-2003, 12:12 AM
dave weil
 
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Default roses for a hedge?

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:44:41 -0700, Cass
wrote:

In article , dave weil
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:47:19 GMT, "Kellie J. Berger"
wrote:

If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a
supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would
you choose?


If you don't mind a *****defoliating****** arching form, fast growing,
once-blooming, orange/red hipped in the winter, green applely smelling
foliaged, cute litte five lobed pink old rosey bloomed, heavily
armored and densely branched plant, then sweet briar rose is your
man...eh...plant. It's even mentioned in Shakespeare - that's how
venerable it is.

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riar5.8.03.jpg

BTW, the dimensions in the last shot are 19 feet wide by almost 7 feet
tall (the plant is about 10 feet fromthat facing edge to the opposite
edge - envision an ellipse shape from above).

Oh yeah, here's a closeup of the blooms. Each bloom only lasts about 2
or 3 days, but they grow in groups where one blooms then the others
bloom sequentially. Each bloom is only about 2 inches or so.

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riarBlooms.jpg


Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean?


This plant sheds its leaves. Right after the end of blooming, it tends
to shed some of its leaves (but only a portion). Then, after resting
for a month or so, it starts to zoom into high-speed growth, i.e.
right now until fall. I still lose the occasional leaf but it's just
very slight. Then, in winter, it pretty much totally defoliates, with
just the occasional leaf here and there.

That might not be the case in your climate though.

I bought Lady
Penzance because I was taken with the sweetbriars. The blackspot put me
off. Is you plant Common Sweet Briar, plain ole plain ole?


Yep - R. Eglanteria (or however you spell it).

The foliage looks terrific. Blackspot?


No blackspot whatsoever. The disconcerting thing is that when the
leaves start to drop, they look suspiciously like rose mosaic virus.
IOW, they get that weird veining. However, I've asked the experts and
they say that the timing of the drops don't coincide with the virus
and that it's probably just how the leaf dies. So far, I haven't
totally ruled the virus out, but it always comes back 3 times the size
of the previous year, as you can see. So, I'm not particularly
worried.

If you get this plant, you'll LOVE the apple smell of the wet leaves.

Also, basically you don't have to worry about whether it blooms only
on old wood, because it's *all* old wood when it blooms. This is one
of the first roses to bloom in the spring (mid-end of April). and
there is no new growth until after blooming.

I'll try to remember to post some shots tomorrow that I just took, but
I don't have time to do it right now...
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Old 14-07-2003, 12:32 AM
Anne Lurie
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

What about a Rugosa? The last time I saw a "rose hedge" was in a parking
lot in northern VT -- no kidding! -- and it seemed to be thriving. I
did a google-pic for "rugosa hedge" and turned up (among others) the
following: http://www.nhnursery.com/seedlings/r...osehedge72.jpg at
the New Hampshire State Forest Nursery, as it turns out (they offer it
because it's valuable to wildlife especially in winter, which is probably
not a major concern in Houston).

BTW, if anyone actually wants to buy such Rugosas in large quantities, they
offer 6-12" plants: $10 for 10 plants, up to $150 for 500 plants.

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"Kellie J. Berger" wrote in message
. ..
If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a
supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would
you choose? Oh... In Houston TX zone 8/9, don't care if it has thorns or
not, repeat blooms and/or fast growing would be nice, but not necessary.

Been following the CB thread with interest, but not sure that would work

w/o
a fence.

Kellie






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Old 15-07-2003, 02:22 PM
Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:44:41 -0700, Cass wrote:

Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean?


This plant sheds its leaves. Right after the end of blooming, it tends
to shed some of its leaves (but only a portion). Then, after resting
for a month or so, it starts to zoom into high-speed growth, i.e.
right now until fall. I still lose the occasional leaf but it's just
very slight. Then, in winter, it pretty much totally defoliates, with
just the occasional leaf here and there.

That might not be the case in your climate though.


Perhaps it is climate. Here in Maryland, it doesn't lose its leaves
after blooming. In fact, mine is quite a dense shrub right now (and has
been all spring and summer). This makes a good hedge if you don't want
anything larger than say a rabbit to get through. I don't have much of
a deer problem here but I wonder if they like this rose or if the thorns
would bother them.

Also, basically you don't have to worry about whether it blooms only
on old wood, because it's *all* old wood when it blooms. This is one
of the first roses to bloom in the spring (mid-end of April). and
there is no new growth until after blooming.


Don't prune this rose in the fall or you won't get many blooms the
following spring. If you prune it at all (i.e. to keep it from becoming
so huge), do it just after the bloom period ends. You'll get lots of
new growth after that which will be old wood next spring and will have
lots of flowers. You can, of course, remove dead wood any time because
you're not liable to get flowers on that, anyway. If you want it big
and you don't prune, it doesn't matter.

I'll try to remember to post some shots tomorrow that I just took, but
I don't have time to do it right now...


There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages:
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down)
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom)
Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window.

--
Henry


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Old 15-07-2003, 06:02 PM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

In article , Henry
wrote:


There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages:
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down)
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom)
Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window.


Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has.
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Old 15-07-2003, 06:02 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:56:25 -0700, Cass
wrote:

In article , Henry
wrote:


There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages:
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down)
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom)
Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window.


Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has.


Henry, do you find that your sweet briar rose defoliates, especially
in winter? If so, do the leaves die by exhibiting a similar look to
rose mosaic virus, i.e. a yellow veined and somewhat "marbled" look?

And, remind me again of your location...
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Old 15-07-2003, 06:02 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:14:51 -0400, Henry
wrote:

dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:44:41 -0700, Cass wrote:

Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean?


This plant sheds its leaves. Right after the end of blooming, it tends
to shed some of its leaves (but only a portion). Then, after resting
for a month or so, it starts to zoom into high-speed growth, i.e.
right now until fall. I still lose the occasional leaf but it's just
very slight. Then, in winter, it pretty much totally defoliates, with
just the occasional leaf here and there.

That might not be the case in your climate though.


Perhaps it is climate. Here in Maryland, it doesn't lose its leaves
after blooming. In fact, mine is quite a dense shrub right now (and has
been all spring and summer). This makes a good hedge if you don't want
anything larger than say a rabbit to get through. I don't have much of
a deer problem here but I wonder if they like this rose or if the thorns
would bother them.


Ahhhh, you can ignore my most recent post.

However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the
entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops
leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows
the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet
by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush
to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it
was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left.

Also, basically you don't have to worry about whether it blooms only
on old wood, because it's *all* old wood when it blooms. This is one
of the first roses to bloom in the spring (mid-end of April). and
there is no new growth until after blooming.


Don't prune this rose in the fall or you won't get many blooms the
following spring. If you prune it at all (i.e. to keep it from becoming
so huge), do it just after the bloom period ends. You'll get lots of
new growth after that which will be old wood next spring and will have
lots of flowers. You can, of course, remove dead wood any time because
you're not liable to get flowers on that, anyway. If you want it big
and you don't prune, it doesn't matter.


I would think that it doesn't matter when you prune it really. All of
the growth that comes out this season will be old wood next spring.
It's obvious that if you take a cane, it won't be there for blooming,
but I don't think you have to worry about pruning right after
blooming, unless you're trying to stimulate new growth in certain
areas of the plant.

I've done *very little* pruning on mine. I do lop off the occasional
scraggly branch and take the tips off of come of the growth that tends
to peter out on the end (which stimulates new canes along the length
of the cane.

I'll try to remember to post some shots tomorrow that I just took, but
I don't have time to do it right now...


There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages:
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down)
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom)
Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window.


I saw them. Very nice. Do you have a pic of the whole bush? Also, are
your blooms that shade, or is this a function of your camera? Mine is
a little different than the ones on the second link. The color on the
first link looks more correct to me.

I really like this plant. I think it looks pretty cool even when it's
*not* in bloom. I can imagine a 100 foot length of this. I only wish I
had the room...
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Old 16-07-2003, 07:11 AM
Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

dave weil wrote:

However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the
entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops
leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows
the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet
by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush
to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it
was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left.


I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not
down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like.

I would think that it doesn't matter when you prune it really. All of
the growth that comes out this season will be old wood next spring.
It's obvious that if you take a cane, it won't be there for blooming,
but I don't think you have to worry about pruning right after
blooming, unless you're trying to stimulate new growth in certain
areas of the plant.


It blooms on last year's wood, not all old wood. That means that if you
prune heavily (for instance to make it only 7 feel tall instead of 12)
late in the fall, you are going to be cutting much of the current year's
growth which is where the blooms will be next year. You are unlikely to
lose all the blooms but it will be much less of a show. I did this a
few years back. The catbirds had built a nest and my wife didn't want
me to prune it while they had their young in there. I waited. Then I
pruned it hard in the fall. The following spring there was not much in
the way of flowers. Perhaps there were other factors but it's bloomed
well all the other years.

I saw them. Very nice. Do you have a pic of the whole bush? Also, are
your blooms that shade, or is this a function of your camera? Mine is
a little different than the ones on the second link. The color on the
first link looks more correct to me.


If memory serves, the second set were late in the day as the sun was
setting so they may be a bit more red/orange in the pictures than in
reality. Also, I may have darkened them up a bit on the computer.
Still some flowers are quite pink, others more pale pink. I don't
really have a good picture of the whole bush (which is really about 6
seedlings that were planted much too close together and are growing as
one huge shrub. I'll see if I can get one. I'm way overdue to update
my What's In Bloom page, anyway.

I really like this plant. I think it looks pretty cool even when it's
*not* in bloom. I can imagine a 100 foot length of this. I only wish I
had the room...


Ditto.

--
Henry




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Old 16-07-2003, 07:13 AM
Henry
 
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Default roses for a hedge?

Cass wrote:
In article , Henry
wrote:



There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages:
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down)
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom)
Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window.



Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has.


I've got to say that I think this rose doesn't get as much attention as
it deserves. I first saw it in Kent (England) in 1996 where practically
every garden had it somewhere. I fell in love with it and it's one rose
I hope to always have. The flowers are pretty but you certainly don't
grow if just for that. It also has lovely, if inconspicuous, shiny,
purple hips. It makes a great backdrop to bright green plants in our
side garden which features lots of purple flowers.

--
Henry


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Old 16-07-2003, 07:19 AM
Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

dave weil wrote:

However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the
entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops
leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows
the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet
by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush
to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it
was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left.


I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not
down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like.

I would think that it doesn't matter when you prune it really. All of
the growth that comes out this season will be old wood next spring.
It's obvious that if you take a cane, it won't be there for blooming,
but I don't think you have to worry about pruning right after
blooming, unless you're trying to stimulate new growth in certain
areas of the plant.


It blooms on last year's wood, not all old wood. That means that if you
prune heavily (for instance to make it only 7 feel tall instead of 12)
late in the fall, you are going to be cutting much of the current year's
growth which is where the blooms will be next year. You are unlikely to
lose all the blooms but it will be much less of a show. I did this a
few years back. The catbirds had built a nest and my wife didn't want
me to prune it while they had their young in there. I waited. Then I
pruned it hard in the fall. The following spring there was not much in
the way of flowers. Perhaps there were other factors but it's bloomed
well all the other years.

I saw them. Very nice. Do you have a pic of the whole bush? Also, are
your blooms that shade, or is this a function of your camera? Mine is
a little different than the ones on the second link. The color on the
first link looks more correct to me.


If memory serves, the second set were late in the day as the sun was
setting so they may be a bit more red/orange in the pictures than in
reality. Also, I may have darkened them up a bit on the computer.
Still some flowers are quite pink, others more pale pink. I don't
really have a good picture of the whole bush (which is really about 6
seedlings that were planted much too close together and are growing as
one huge shrub. I'll see if I can get one. I'm way overdue to update
my What's In Bloom page, anyway.

I really like this plant. I think it looks pretty cool even when it's
*not* in bloom. I can imagine a 100 foot length of this. I only wish I
had the room...


Ditto.

--
Henry


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Old 16-07-2003, 07:20 AM
Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

Cass wrote:
In article , Henry
wrote:



There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages:
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down)
http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom)
Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window.



Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has.


I've got to say that I think this rose doesn't get as much attention as
it deserves. I first saw it in Kent (England) in 1996 where practically
every garden had it somewhere. I fell in love with it and it's one rose
I hope to always have. The flowers are pretty but you certainly don't
grow if just for that. It also has lovely, if inconspicuous, shiny,
purple hips. It makes a great backdrop to bright green plants in our
side garden which features lots of purple flowers.

--
Henry


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Old 20-07-2003, 11:36 PM
Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

I wrote:
dave weil wrote:
However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the
entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops
leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows
the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet
by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush
to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it
was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left.


I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not
down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like.


I guess because of where mine are in the yard I never noticed this
before but yes, I went down and checked today and sure enough, the lower
half of the shrub was mostly leafless. It is putting out some *very*
long canes and it looks quite healthy otherwise.

--
Henry


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Old 21-07-2003, 03:32 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default roses for a hedge?

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:52:22 -0400, Henry
wrote:

I wrote:
dave weil wrote:
However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the
entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops
leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows
the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet
by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush
to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it
was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left.


I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not
down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like.


I guess because of where mine are in the yard I never noticed this
before but yes, I went down and checked today and sure enough, the lower
half of the shrub was mostly leafless. It is putting out some *very*
long canes and it looks quite healthy otherwise.


Glad to hear that. I was beginning to worry a little that my plant was
rebelling.

Yes, now's the time for the thing to go nuts.

And next year, we won't even notice any sign of defoliation, as new
growth will spring from those canes, if past experience is any
judge...

How big is yours at the moment? And how old?


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