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#1
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roses for a hedge?
If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a
supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would you choose? Oh... In Houston TX zone 8/9, don't care if it has thorns or not, repeat blooms and/or fast growing would be nice, but not necessary. Been following the CB thread with interest, but not sure that would work w/o a fence. Kellie |
#2
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roses for a hedge?
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:47:19 GMT, "Kellie J. Berger"
wrote: If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would you choose? Oh... In Houston TX zone 8/9, don't care if it has thorns or not, repeat blooms and/or fast growing would be nice, but not necessary. Been following the CB thread with interest, but not sure that would work w/o a fence. Kellie One thing to remember is that in a lot of climtates, many roses defoliate during the winter. Are you cool with this or do you want an opaque hedge? Do you want something that can be trimmed into a fairly regular shape, do you want a sort of "billowy" "cloudlike" hedge, or do you just want something that separates one area from another? If you don't mind a defoliating, arching form, fast growing, once-blooming, orange/red hipped in the winter, green applely smelling foliaged, cute litte five lobed pink old rosey bloomed, heavily armored and densely branched plant, then sweet briar rose is your man...eh...plant. It's even mentioned in Shakespeare - that's how venerable it is. This sucker grows big- fast! Mine is in its third season and has a wingspread of 19 feet and it's about 7 feet tall.. It only blooms for a month in the spring but it blooms pretty profusely during that period. It attracts bees for pollen. It is definitely self-supporting and grows in a sort of elongated umbrella style. It is very dense, not only with entangled branches but also with a massive amount of different sized thorns. Five of them would easily cover a line of 100 feet and you should plan for at least 10 -15 feet wide from front to rear. One thing, mine has tended to grow with its width facing the axis of the sun. It has definitely grown wide from north to south, presenting the "front" as it were to the east/west axis. So, you might want to take this into consideration when planning your hedge line, *if* you decide on this kind of hedge. What I'm saying is that, if you aren't careful, you might have plants that grow at angles to each other, if you can envision this. Here are three shots of my plant, the first when I first planted it three years ago (about 3 months after planting), the second from May 2002 and the third from May of this year: http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/SweetBriar1st.jpg http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/SweetBriar2nd.jpg http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riar5.8.03.jpg BTW, the dimensions in the last shot are 19 feet wide by almost 7 feet tall (the plant is about 10 feet fromthat facing edge to the opposite edge - envision an ellipse shape from above). My back is to the morning sun and there's a definte "front" that's developed (which is sort of angled in relation to my house - it's about 30 degrres off paralell). I've read that this bush can easily get 10 - 15 feet tall in certain climates. Remember, this is a plant that's only been in the ground for 3 years this spring. It's about this time of year that it really throws out a lot of new growth. I just went outside to look at it, and the tallest upright canes are now about 8 ft. tall and they are quite thick, so it might be another foot or two before they start to arch downward, which is the general shape of the plant. It's really starting to develop a canopy "umbrella" shape, but part of that is that I've been selectively trimming lower canes so that I can mow under it (it was tough last year, because i didn't want to trim much at all). My point is that this won't be a hedge that seems to be solid from the ground up, like a boxwood. If you can deal with the short blooming period, you'll love this plant for a hedge. The neat thing is, this is one of the few roses that has aromatic leaves. When they get wet, they smell like green apples. Hope this helps. Oh yeah, here's a closeup of the blooms. Each bloom only lasts about 2 or 3 days, but they grow in groups where one blooms then the others bloom sequentially. Each bloom is only about 2 inches or so. http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riarBlooms.jpg |
#3
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roses for a hedge?
In article , dave weil
wrote: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:47:19 GMT, "Kellie J. Berger" wrote: If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would you choose? If you don't mind a *****defoliating****** arching form, fast growing, once-blooming, orange/red hipped in the winter, green applely smelling foliaged, cute litte five lobed pink old rosey bloomed, heavily armored and densely branched plant, then sweet briar rose is your man...eh...plant. It's even mentioned in Shakespeare - that's how venerable it is. http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riar5.8.03.jpg BTW, the dimensions in the last shot are 19 feet wide by almost 7 feet tall (the plant is about 10 feet fromthat facing edge to the opposite edge - envision an ellipse shape from above). Oh yeah, here's a closeup of the blooms. Each bloom only lasts about 2 or 3 days, but they grow in groups where one blooms then the others bloom sequentially. Each bloom is only about 2 inches or so. http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riarBlooms.jpg Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean? I bought Lady Penzance because I was taken with the sweetbriars. The blackspot put me off. Is you plant Common Sweet Briar, plain ole plain ole? The foliage looks terrific. Blackspot? |
#4
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roses for a hedge?
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:44:41 -0700, Cass
wrote: In article , dave weil wrote: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:47:19 GMT, "Kellie J. Berger" wrote: If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would you choose? If you don't mind a *****defoliating****** arching form, fast growing, once-blooming, orange/red hipped in the winter, green applely smelling foliaged, cute litte five lobed pink old rosey bloomed, heavily armored and densely branched plant, then sweet briar rose is your man...eh...plant. It's even mentioned in Shakespeare - that's how venerable it is. http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riar5.8.03.jpg BTW, the dimensions in the last shot are 19 feet wide by almost 7 feet tall (the plant is about 10 feet fromthat facing edge to the opposite edge - envision an ellipse shape from above). Oh yeah, here's a closeup of the blooms. Each bloom only lasts about 2 or 3 days, but they grow in groups where one blooms then the others bloom sequentially. Each bloom is only about 2 inches or so. http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/...riarBlooms.jpg Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean? This plant sheds its leaves. Right after the end of blooming, it tends to shed some of its leaves (but only a portion). Then, after resting for a month or so, it starts to zoom into high-speed growth, i.e. right now until fall. I still lose the occasional leaf but it's just very slight. Then, in winter, it pretty much totally defoliates, with just the occasional leaf here and there. That might not be the case in your climate though. I bought Lady Penzance because I was taken with the sweetbriars. The blackspot put me off. Is you plant Common Sweet Briar, plain ole plain ole? Yep - R. Eglanteria (or however you spell it). The foliage looks terrific. Blackspot? No blackspot whatsoever. The disconcerting thing is that when the leaves start to drop, they look suspiciously like rose mosaic virus. IOW, they get that weird veining. However, I've asked the experts and they say that the timing of the drops don't coincide with the virus and that it's probably just how the leaf dies. So far, I haven't totally ruled the virus out, but it always comes back 3 times the size of the previous year, as you can see. So, I'm not particularly worried. If you get this plant, you'll LOVE the apple smell of the wet leaves. Also, basically you don't have to worry about whether it blooms only on old wood, because it's *all* old wood when it blooms. This is one of the first roses to bloom in the spring (mid-end of April). and there is no new growth until after blooming. I'll try to remember to post some shots tomorrow that I just took, but I don't have time to do it right now... |
#5
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roses for a hedge?
What about a Rugosa? The last time I saw a "rose hedge" was in a parking
lot in northern VT -- no kidding! -- and it seemed to be thriving. I did a google-pic for "rugosa hedge" and turned up (among others) the following: http://www.nhnursery.com/seedlings/r...osehedge72.jpg at the New Hampshire State Forest Nursery, as it turns out (they offer it because it's valuable to wildlife especially in winter, which is probably not a major concern in Houston). BTW, if anyone actually wants to buy such Rugosas in large quantities, they offer 6-12" plants: $10 for 10 plants, up to $150 for 500 plants. Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Kellie J. Berger" wrote in message . .. If you had to pick some roses to make a long hedge (probably w/o a supporting fence), and wanted something w/o much maintenance, what would you choose? Oh... In Houston TX zone 8/9, don't care if it has thorns or not, repeat blooms and/or fast growing would be nice, but not necessary. Been following the CB thread with interest, but not sure that would work w/o a fence. Kellie |
#6
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roses for a hedge?
dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:44:41 -0700, Cass wrote: Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean? This plant sheds its leaves. Right after the end of blooming, it tends to shed some of its leaves (but only a portion). Then, after resting for a month or so, it starts to zoom into high-speed growth, i.e. right now until fall. I still lose the occasional leaf but it's just very slight. Then, in winter, it pretty much totally defoliates, with just the occasional leaf here and there. That might not be the case in your climate though. Perhaps it is climate. Here in Maryland, it doesn't lose its leaves after blooming. In fact, mine is quite a dense shrub right now (and has been all spring and summer). This makes a good hedge if you don't want anything larger than say a rabbit to get through. I don't have much of a deer problem here but I wonder if they like this rose or if the thorns would bother them. Also, basically you don't have to worry about whether it blooms only on old wood, because it's *all* old wood when it blooms. This is one of the first roses to bloom in the spring (mid-end of April). and there is no new growth until after blooming. Don't prune this rose in the fall or you won't get many blooms the following spring. If you prune it at all (i.e. to keep it from becoming so huge), do it just after the bloom period ends. You'll get lots of new growth after that which will be old wood next spring and will have lots of flowers. You can, of course, remove dead wood any time because you're not liable to get flowers on that, anyway. If you want it big and you don't prune, it doesn't matter. I'll try to remember to post some shots tomorrow that I just took, but I don't have time to do it right now... There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages: http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down) http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom) Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window. -- Henry |
#7
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roses for a hedge?
In article , Henry
wrote: There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages: http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down) http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom) Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window. Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has. |
#8
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roses for a hedge?
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:56:25 -0700, Cass
wrote: In article , Henry wrote: There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages: http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down) http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom) Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window. Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has. Henry, do you find that your sweet briar rose defoliates, especially in winter? If so, do the leaves die by exhibiting a similar look to rose mosaic virus, i.e. a yellow veined and somewhat "marbled" look? And, remind me again of your location... |
#9
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roses for a hedge?
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:14:51 -0400, Henry
wrote: dave weil wrote: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:44:41 -0700, Cass wrote: Great shots, Dave. What's the defoliating part mean? This plant sheds its leaves. Right after the end of blooming, it tends to shed some of its leaves (but only a portion). Then, after resting for a month or so, it starts to zoom into high-speed growth, i.e. right now until fall. I still lose the occasional leaf but it's just very slight. Then, in winter, it pretty much totally defoliates, with just the occasional leaf here and there. That might not be the case in your climate though. Perhaps it is climate. Here in Maryland, it doesn't lose its leaves after blooming. In fact, mine is quite a dense shrub right now (and has been all spring and summer). This makes a good hedge if you don't want anything larger than say a rabbit to get through. I don't have much of a deer problem here but I wonder if they like this rose or if the thorns would bother them. Ahhhh, you can ignore my most recent post. However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left. Also, basically you don't have to worry about whether it blooms only on old wood, because it's *all* old wood when it blooms. This is one of the first roses to bloom in the spring (mid-end of April). and there is no new growth until after blooming. Don't prune this rose in the fall or you won't get many blooms the following spring. If you prune it at all (i.e. to keep it from becoming so huge), do it just after the bloom period ends. You'll get lots of new growth after that which will be old wood next spring and will have lots of flowers. You can, of course, remove dead wood any time because you're not liable to get flowers on that, anyway. If you want it big and you don't prune, it doesn't matter. I would think that it doesn't matter when you prune it really. All of the growth that comes out this season will be old wood next spring. It's obvious that if you take a cane, it won't be there for blooming, but I don't think you have to worry about pruning right after blooming, unless you're trying to stimulate new growth in certain areas of the plant. I've done *very little* pruning on mine. I do lop off the occasional scraggly branch and take the tips off of come of the growth that tends to peter out on the end (which stimulates new canes along the length of the cane. I'll try to remember to post some shots tomorrow that I just took, but I don't have time to do it right now... There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages: http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down) http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom) Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window. I saw them. Very nice. Do you have a pic of the whole bush? Also, are your blooms that shade, or is this a function of your camera? Mine is a little different than the ones on the second link. The color on the first link looks more correct to me. I really like this plant. I think it looks pretty cool even when it's *not* in bloom. I can imagine a 100 foot length of this. I only wish I had the room... |
#10
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roses for a hedge?
dave weil wrote:
However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left. I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like. I would think that it doesn't matter when you prune it really. All of the growth that comes out this season will be old wood next spring. It's obvious that if you take a cane, it won't be there for blooming, but I don't think you have to worry about pruning right after blooming, unless you're trying to stimulate new growth in certain areas of the plant. It blooms on last year's wood, not all old wood. That means that if you prune heavily (for instance to make it only 7 feel tall instead of 12) late in the fall, you are going to be cutting much of the current year's growth which is where the blooms will be next year. You are unlikely to lose all the blooms but it will be much less of a show. I did this a few years back. The catbirds had built a nest and my wife didn't want me to prune it while they had their young in there. I waited. Then I pruned it hard in the fall. The following spring there was not much in the way of flowers. Perhaps there were other factors but it's bloomed well all the other years. I saw them. Very nice. Do you have a pic of the whole bush? Also, are your blooms that shade, or is this a function of your camera? Mine is a little different than the ones on the second link. The color on the first link looks more correct to me. If memory serves, the second set were late in the day as the sun was setting so they may be a bit more red/orange in the pictures than in reality. Also, I may have darkened them up a bit on the computer. Still some flowers are quite pink, others more pale pink. I don't really have a good picture of the whole bush (which is really about 6 seedlings that were planted much too close together and are growing as one huge shrub. I'll see if I can get one. I'm way overdue to update my What's In Bloom page, anyway. I really like this plant. I think it looks pretty cool even when it's *not* in bloom. I can imagine a 100 foot length of this. I only wish I had the room... Ditto. -- Henry |
#11
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roses for a hedge?
Cass wrote:
In article , Henry wrote: There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages: http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down) http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom) Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window. Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has. I've got to say that I think this rose doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. I first saw it in Kent (England) in 1996 where practically every garden had it somewhere. I fell in love with it and it's one rose I hope to always have. The flowers are pretty but you certainly don't grow if just for that. It also has lovely, if inconspicuous, shiny, purple hips. It makes a great backdrop to bright green plants in our side garden which features lots of purple flowers. -- Henry |
#12
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roses for a hedge?
dave weil wrote:
However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left. I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like. I would think that it doesn't matter when you prune it really. All of the growth that comes out this season will be old wood next spring. It's obvious that if you take a cane, it won't be there for blooming, but I don't think you have to worry about pruning right after blooming, unless you're trying to stimulate new growth in certain areas of the plant. It blooms on last year's wood, not all old wood. That means that if you prune heavily (for instance to make it only 7 feel tall instead of 12) late in the fall, you are going to be cutting much of the current year's growth which is where the blooms will be next year. You are unlikely to lose all the blooms but it will be much less of a show. I did this a few years back. The catbirds had built a nest and my wife didn't want me to prune it while they had their young in there. I waited. Then I pruned it hard in the fall. The following spring there was not much in the way of flowers. Perhaps there were other factors but it's bloomed well all the other years. I saw them. Very nice. Do you have a pic of the whole bush? Also, are your blooms that shade, or is this a function of your camera? Mine is a little different than the ones on the second link. The color on the first link looks more correct to me. If memory serves, the second set were late in the day as the sun was setting so they may be a bit more red/orange in the pictures than in reality. Also, I may have darkened them up a bit on the computer. Still some flowers are quite pink, others more pale pink. I don't really have a good picture of the whole bush (which is really about 6 seedlings that were planted much too close together and are growing as one huge shrub. I'll see if I can get one. I'm way overdue to update my What's In Bloom page, anyway. I really like this plant. I think it looks pretty cool even when it's *not* in bloom. I can imagine a 100 foot length of this. I only wish I had the room... Ditto. -- Henry |
#13
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roses for a hedge?
Cass wrote:
In article , Henry wrote: There are bloom pictures of mine from this spring on these two pages: http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030610.php (half way down) http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030520.php (at the bottom) Click on the pictures for larger versions in a popup window. Your shots of r. glauca are enticing. What great foliage that one has. I've got to say that I think this rose doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. I first saw it in Kent (England) in 1996 where practically every garden had it somewhere. I fell in love with it and it's one rose I hope to always have. The flowers are pretty but you certainly don't grow if just for that. It also has lovely, if inconspicuous, shiny, purple hips. It makes a great backdrop to bright green plants in our side garden which features lots of purple flowers. -- Henry |
#14
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roses for a hedge?
I wrote:
dave weil wrote: However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left. I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like. I guess because of where mine are in the yard I never noticed this before but yes, I went down and checked today and sure enough, the lower half of the shrub was mostly leafless. It is putting out some *very* long canes and it looks quite healthy otherwise. -- Henry |
#15
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roses for a hedge?
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:52:22 -0400, Henry
wrote: I wrote: dave weil wrote: However, when I say it defoliates after blooming, I don't mean the entire plant. I just mean that some of the more spindly growth drops leaves. Right now, my bush is growing like gangbusters. If it follows the trend of its 3 year lifespan, it will easily be 25 feet by 9 feet by the end of the season. I actually trim the right side of the bush to give me a path next to my fence garden. If I had known how wide it was going to grow, I'd have planted it at least two feet to the left. I never really noticed it but it's at the bottom of the yard and I'm not down there all that much. I'll go out tomorrow and see what it looks like. I guess because of where mine are in the yard I never noticed this before but yes, I went down and checked today and sure enough, the lower half of the shrub was mostly leafless. It is putting out some *very* long canes and it looks quite healthy otherwise. Glad to hear that. I was beginning to worry a little that my plant was rebelling. Yes, now's the time for the thing to go nuts. And next year, we won't even notice any sign of defoliation, as new growth will spring from those canes, if past experience is any judge... How big is yours at the moment? And how old? |
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