Well, spraying the peppers/garlic/eggs stuff seems to be deterring
the deer for now, but we've been getting some heavy rains here of
late (not complete coverage, but where they are they are nasty:
relatives of an acquaintance were in a major accident due to one
of those storms, dead wife and husband in intensive care). I'm on
the highest land for a mile around (in this part of N. peninsular
Florida, that means 100-110 feet) but my roses are in clay/sand
flatwoods soil, and any local dip in the land can have standing
water for hours after a good rain or for a week if rains repeat.

(Consoled myself for dead roses by, yep, buying more. A hardware
store in Orange Park has a not-bad selection of own-root old roses
for $15 a bush, a buck off that if you buy more than one; the woman
in charge of their nursery department has a web page I stumbled
across via helpmefind.com: http://www.antiqueroses.net/ )

I'm assuming that the rains wash off the anti-deer stuff, so it's time
to make more, my style:
3 ounces or more of dried hot chili peppers
quart of denatured alcohol (don't waste good booze)
half a cup or so of ready-minced garlic (in water, not oil)
4 eggs or more
Soak peppers in alcohol for a couple days (capsaicin is way more
soluble in ethanol than in water). Put peppers and alcohol in
blender and try to liquefy the mix. Add garlic and eggs and enough
water to nearly fill container and again try to liquefy the result.
Strain through fine mesh strainer. Dilute to 2 gallons in sprayer.

Some pundits say that egg solids are in fact the most repellent
component of this mess. I dunno. And maybe straining the ingredients
separately would help.

Fences seem terribly expensive. The Muncy nursery near Sarasota,
Florida has a high fence that looked to me (on my sole visit a couple
years ago) to be made of plastic or plastic-coated-wire mesh, rather
delicate looking, possibly something like the stuff on this site:
http://www.bennersgardens.com/bg/product.asp?pageCode=1 .
Over a buck a running foot just for the fence material, posts not
included, and what roses I have in the ground aren't all within a
nice tidy rectangle: some would have to be moved.

High-tension Australian/New Zealand style fence, electrified or
not, would be another possibility, but not much cheaper. I'm told
that a simple electric fence will 1) likely get broken by deer and
2) deer sometimes slip between wires and endure the slight shocks
for long enough to get through.

Still haven't tried ultrasonic noisemaker: still haven't assembled the
kit-form one I have.

Anyone out there have experience with fences to keep out deer?

Mark., zone 8b

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:30:40 GMT, "Mark. Gooley"
wrote:

Well, spraying the peppers/garlic/eggs stuff seems to be deterring
the deer for now, but we've been getting some heavy rains here of
late

I think several folks have already weighed in on this issue, including
me.

This stuff looks interesting, as it is not too visible and is very
lightweight so ought not to be expensive:

http://www.ibexmfg.com/benner/

"Shiva" wrote:
I think several folks have already weighed in on this issue, including
me.

This stuff looks interesting, as it is not too visible and is very
lightweight so ought not to be expensive:

http://www.ibexmfg.com/benner/

Same product, associated with the same people, as the site I
mentioned. But thanks for mentioning it all the same. That
seems to be their installer's site.

I was thinking about getting the heavy-duty version of their mesh,
which is a tad more expensive but suggested for bigger enclosures.
For the area I have in mind it'd be over 1000 running feet of it, and
I'd guess a total cost around $2000 if I did all the work myself.
Big investment there.

In an ideal universe I'd be able to surround my garden with plants
of "Mermaid" so large and healthy that the deer couldn't make a
dent in them, let alone jump over them. In practice they'd eat the
Mermaids to the ground or at least defoliate them before they could
grow. I have an Austin rose at the perimeter of my garden that has
not bloomed in two years because the deer or insects or something
have eaten every bud and most of the leaves.

Mark.

"Mark. Gooley" writes:

(Consoled myself for dead roses by, yep, buying more. A hardware
store in Orange Park has a not-bad selection of own-root old roses
for $15 a bush, a buck off that if you buy more than one; the woman
in charge of their nursery department has a web page I stumbled
across via helpmefind.com: http://www.antiqueroses.net/ )

Sorry I can't help with the deer issue. Well not exactly sorry that I don't
have any experience with them. More like I'm sorry you have deer problems.

I did check out the website though, she has some very interesting roses there.
Many of them are good Florida roses, a change from all the Dr Huey HTs we
generally see available.

Bassino, a groundcover, red single with gold center sounds intersting as does
Mlle Franziska Kruger, 1880 tea, 5’ bush, copper/yellow & pink, very double.

The photo that most caught my eye was Lafter. I really liked that one.

(If you don't have these roses, you should go buy them and report back on how
they do for you. g)

Julie

"Unique Too" wrote :
"Mark. Gooley" writes:

(Consoled myself for dead roses by, yep, buying more. A hardware
store in Orange Park has a not-bad selection of own-root old roses
for $15 a bush, a buck off that if you buy more than one; the woman
in charge of their nursery department has a web page I stumbled
across via helpmefind.com: http://www.antiqueroses.net/ )

Sorry I can't help with the deer issue. Well not exactly sorry that I
don't
have any experience with them. More like I'm sorry you have deer
problems.

I did check out the website though, she has some very interesting roses
there.
Many of them are good Florida roses, a change from all the Dr Huey HTs we
generally see available.

Bassino, a groundcover, red single with gold center sounds intersting as
does
Mlle Franziska Kruger, 1880 tea, 5' bush, copper/yellow & pink, very
double.

The photo that most caught my eye was Lafter. I really liked that one.

(If you don't have these roses, you should go buy them and report back on
how
they do for you. g)

I got Lafter from the Gainesville chapter of the ARS, at the spring garden
show
at Kanapaha Gardens (which is developing a nice little collection of old
roses
itself; mostly it goes for bamboos and amorphophallus and insectivorous
plants.
I hope that the director is doing well: he lost a forearm to an alligator
last year,
poor man, while helping tend the area near the ponds). It is almost
trouble-free,
blooms profusely, and I planted it near enough the doublewide that deer
haven't
been eating it. It's not really an old variety (1948) and it's technically
a hybrid
tea, but it looks a bit oldish and has a good smell, has General Jack and
Dr.
W. van Fleet in its ancestry, and is named for (I think) of a long-ago
botanical
illustrator who specialized in roses.

I got St. David's (Bermuda? helpmefind says no), Etoile de Lyon (tea I
think),
Duchese de Brabant, Excellenz von Schubert, Jean Bach Sisley, and I think
Mrs.
B. R. Cant...anyway, six in all. Pretty good size (2 and 3 gallon pots) for
own-root roses. Afraid to plant them out what with the deer, mind you.

I found an interesting article on a slanted electrified deer fence that
sounds
relatively cheap to put up (see
http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodica...997-10-02.html
for details). Might go that way...but they don't make it clear how to do
corner
posts for this design.

Mark., prolix as always

In article , Mark. Gooley
wrote:

Fences seem terribly expensive. The Muncy nursery near Sarasota,
Florida has a high fence that looked to me (on my sole visit a couple
years ago) to be made of plastic or plastic-coated-wire mesh, rather
delicate looking, possibly something like the stuff on this site:
http://www.bennersgardens.com/bg/product.asp?pageCode=1 .
Over a buck a running foot just for the fence material, posts not
included, and what roses I have in the ground aren't all within a
nice tidy rectangle: some would have to be moved.

Fences are expensive. That's why you should try to put in a good one
the first time around. You don't want to spend the money twice.

High-tension Australian/New Zealand style fence, electrified or
not, would be another possibility, but not much cheaper. I'm told
that a simple electric fence will 1) likely get broken by deer and
2) deer sometimes slip between wires and endure the slight shocks
for long enough to get through.

Still haven't tried ultrasonic noisemaker: still haven't assembled the
kit-form one I have.

Have you tried the motion-activated sprinkler? Don't know if it works.

Anyone out there have experience with fences to keep out deer?

We westerners all fence. It's a necessity here to keep out deer. 6
feet of wire, 4 x 4's set in concrete every 8 feet, with 2 x 4 top
rail and bottom rail. And that doesn't count the gates. Put in plenty
of gates. How much land are you fencing? And how big are your deer?
Deer can jump a 6 foot fence but won't if there's a dog inside.

In article , Mark. Gooley
wrote:


I was thinking about getting the heavy-duty version of their mesh,
which is a tad more expensive but suggested for bigger enclosures.
For the area I have in mind it'd be over 1000 running feet of it, and
I'd guess a total cost around $2000 if I did all the work myself.
Big investment there.

Check that product out for UV deterioration, especially in Florida.
Wire actually disappears in the landscape. It's galvanized and oxidizes
to a dull, neutral color.

In an ideal universe I'd be able to surround my garden with plants
of "Mermaid" so large and healthy that the deer couldn't make a
dent in them, let alone jump over them. In practice they'd eat the
Mermaids to the ground or at least defoliate them before they could
grow. I have an Austin rose at the perimeter of my garden that has
not bloomed in two years because the deer or insects or something
have eaten every bud and most of the leaves.

Actually, you can protect anything with a round enclosure. It's done
here all the time because the local deer aren't very tall. Once the
tree reaches a certain height that the deer can't reach, then the
enclosure is removed. They've eat most things into a standard shape
(like a big lollipop), including Mermaid. No deer protection there.
They eat my roses through the fence until they reach about 5 feet.
Above that they don't browse.

In article , Mark. Gooley
wrote:

I found an interesting article on a slanted electrified deer fence
that sounds relatively cheap to put up (see
http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodica...1997-10-02.htm
l for details). Might go that way...but they don't make it clear how
to do corner posts for this design.

The local solution where deer jump 6 ft fence is to put in two 6 foot
fences about 5 or 6 feet apart. They don't have to be very well
constructed - metal fence posts work fine with this technique. After a
few years they tend to sag and look disreputable. If you won't be able
to see it, that doesn't much matter. You could do something nicer
within sight lines.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:30:40 GMT, "Mark. Gooley"
wrote:

Well, spraying the peppers/garlic/eggs stuff seems to be deterring
the deer for now, but we've been getting some heavy rains here of
late (not complete coverage, but where they are they are nasty:
relatives of an acquaintance were in a major accident due to one
of those storms, dead wife and husband in intensive care). I'm on
the highest land for a mile around (in this part of N. peninsular
Florida, that means 100-110 feet) but my roses are in clay/sand
flatwoods soil, and any local dip in the land can have standing
water for hours after a good rain or for a week if rains repeat.

(Consoled myself for dead roses by, yep, buying more. A hardware
store in Orange Park has a not-bad selection of own-root old roses
for $15 a bush, a buck off that if you buy more than one; the woman
in charge of their nursery department has a web page I stumbled
across via helpmefind.com: http://www.antiqueroses.net/ )

I'm assuming that the rains wash off the anti-deer stuff, so it's time
to make more, my style:
3 ounces or more of dried hot chili peppers
quart of denatured alcohol (don't waste good booze)
half a cup or so of ready-minced garlic (in water, not oil)
4 eggs or more
Soak peppers in alcohol for a couple days (capsaicin is way more
soluble in ethanol than in water). Put peppers and alcohol in
blender and try to liquefy the mix. Add garlic and eggs and enough
water to nearly fill container and again try to liquefy the result.
Strain through fine mesh strainer. Dilute to 2 gallons in sprayer.

Some pundits say that egg solids are in fact the most repellent
component of this mess. I dunno. And maybe straining the ingredients
separately would help.

Fences seem terribly expensive. The Muncy nursery near Sarasota,
Florida has a high fence that looked to me (on my sole visit a couple
years ago) to be made of plastic or plastic-coated-wire mesh, rather
delicate looking, possibly something like the stuff on this site:
http://www.bennersgardens.com/bg/product.asp?pageCode=1 .
Over a buck a running foot just for the fence material, posts not
included, and what roses I have in the ground aren't all within a
nice tidy rectangle: some would have to be moved.

High-tension Australian/New Zealand style fence, electrified or
not, would be another possibility, but not much cheaper. I'm told
that a simple electric fence will 1) likely get broken by deer and
2) deer sometimes slip between wires and endure the slight shocks
for long enough to get through.

Still haven't tried ultrasonic noisemaker: still haven't assembled the
kit-form one I have.

Anyone out there have experience with fences to keep out deer?

Hi, I have a deer problem far beyond what most have, my property joins
the National Forest, and deer are abundant.

Over the years I tried everything, including an 8' fence around my
garden.(which was a problem from the start).

The simple, cost effective solution was an electric fence (1 wire).
Now let me make it clear from the beginning. this is NOT something
that will hurt a child or one of your pets. The fence charger I have
was designed to keep a dog in a given area.

I have a single wire just outside my yard fence (my roses are on the
fence). Many times in the past my roses were wiped out, but not once
in 3 years, since I put the wire up. Once they touch it, they won't
be back- -I have seen them touch it, and leave in alarm.

Deer also love apples, I have a single wire running down between the
row of trees, with one crossed in the middle- -no more deer problems.

It works, period.

Have a nice day=Rogerx
Mark., zone 8b

"Mark. Gooley" writes:

I got Lafter from the Gainesville chapter of the ARS, at the spring garden
show
at Kanapaha Gardens (which is developing a nice little collection of old
roses
itself; mostly it goes for bamboos and amorphophallus and insectivorous
plants.
I hope that the director is doing well: he lost a forearm to an alligator
last year,
poor man, while helping tend the area near the ponds). It is almost
trouble-free,
blooms profusely, and I planted it near enough the doublewide that deer
haven't
been eating it. It's not really an old variety (1948) and it's technically
a hybrid
tea, but it looks a bit oldish and has a good smell, has General Jack and
Dr.
W. van Fleet in its ancestry, and is named for (I think) of a long-ago
botanical
illustrator who specialized in roses.


Thanks for the info on Lafter. I really liked that one. What is the plants
shape, typical HT? Or more rounded? I like lots of blooms, but the natural
shape of the plant is very important to me.


I got St. David's (Bermuda? helpmefind says no), Etoile de Lyon (tea I
think),
Duchese de Brabant, Excellenz von Schubert, Jean Bach Sisley, and I think
Mrs.
B. R. Cant...anyway, six in all. Pretty good size (2 and 3 gallon pots) for
own-root roses. Afraid to plant them out what with the deer, mind you.


I saw St. David's at a local nursery, but didn't buy it. I liked the color,
red with a touch of white and these roses do well here. It was a toss up
between St David's and Martha Gonzales. I couldn't decide which one to buy and
they are so similar, I didn't get either of them. One of the few times I've
shown restraint when buying roses.
Duchese de Brabant and Mrs. BR Cant are wonderful roses! I grow and love them
both. DdB is still pretty small, but the flowers are so dainty and what a
fragrance. Mrs Cant is huge here. I'd like to see the deer tackle mine.
Maybe they could keep her from growing over my roof and across the lawn and
into the neighbors ugly hedge.

Julie

In an ideal cosmos I'd be able to beleaguer my garden with plants of "Mermaid" so ample and advantageous that the deer couldn't accomplish a dent in them, let abandoned jump over them. In convenance they'd eat the Mermaids to the arena or at atomic defoliate them afore they could grow.