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Old 14-08-2003, 08:02 PM
Bruce Ritchings
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

Hello,
My local nursery says I should choose between High Hopes and New
Dawn for the rose I need. Can someone please point me to information
on these two?

Here's what I'm looking for (perhaps someone has better ideas than
High Hopes or New Dawn?)
* long rambler (15') that will grow along a 4' fence
* pink (New Dawn is apparently barely pink, so it might fill the bill)
* must bloom in late July and August here in San Diego near beach
* petal count less than or equal to 40 due to coolish temps near beach
* petal count 6, i..e. not single
* disease resistance would be nice due to fog from beach, but not
absolutely necessary (I can just spray like crazy I guess).

Thanks in advance, Bruce

  #2   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2003, 09:09 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:45:14 -0700, Bruce Ritchings
wrote:

Hello,
My local nursery says I should choose between High Hopes and New
Dawn for the rose I need. Can someone please point me to information
on these two?

Here's what I'm looking for (perhaps someone has better ideas than
High Hopes or New Dawn?)
* long rambler (15') that will grow along a 4' fence
* pink (New Dawn is apparently barely pink, so it might fill the bill)
* must bloom in late July and August here in San Diego near beach
* petal count less than or equal to 40 due to coolish temps near beach
* petal count 6, i..e. not single
* disease resistance would be nice due to fog from beach, but not
absolutely necessary (I can just spray like crazy I guess).

Thanks in advance, Bruce


Probably not big enough, but here goes - Souvenir de la Malmaison,
Cl.:

http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=614

Plant several of them to cover the fence.

Here's another - Setina:

http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=210

Here's one that might fit the bill - Parade, a descendent of New Dawn:

http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=462

And a pic:

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=4648

Madame Caroline Testout, Cl.:

http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=527

Don't let the greater than 15 ft thing stop you from considering some
really fine plants. You can do multiple plantings.

Also, finally, even though it doesn't sound like the kind of bloom
that you're looking for (there shouldn't be a climatic problem
though), my old standby, Cecile Brunner, Cl. I've got 20 ft. canes
within 3 years. and it's in bloom as we speak. Of course, the blooms
are tiny by themselves, but they're pink and plentiful, borne on big
panticles. If you go this route,you'll have to make sure that you get
a repeat blooming variety, because there are apparently some
once-blooming types. I got mine from Antique Rose Emporium, so they
are all likely from the same stock (and they are own root). The blooms
are only 1 to 1 1/2 inches across and they don't last long, but they
are quickly replaced. They look *really* cute partially unfurled (like
tiny cupped HTs, but this only lasts for a couple of says before they
billow out like you see in the pics:

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=891

http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=903

(note the phrase 20 to 30 feet g)

Here's a recent pic of mine after only 3 seasons in Zone 6b,
Nashville:

http://www.pbase.com/image/20165860

The top of that plant is about 12 feet up but that mass up in the
trees consists of really long canes wrapped around themselves...

....oh yeah, here in Nashville, this plant blooms as late as November.


  #3   Report Post  
Old 15-08-2003, 05:57 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

In article , Bruce
Ritchings wrote:

Hello,
My local nursery says I should choose between High Hopes and New
Dawn for the rose I need. Can someone please point me to information
on these two?


Your nursery probably advises these because they have them in stock.
I'm not familiar with High Hopes, but here's the info:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=3269
I'm a great fan of it's parent, Compassion, but I can report that it's
disease resistance in coastal California is not perfect. I advise
against New Dawn (see below) in San Diego.

Here's what I'm looking for (perhaps someone has better ideas than
High Hopes or New Dawn?)
* long rambler (15') that will grow along a 4' fence
* pink (New Dawn is apparently barely pink, so it might fill the bill)
* must bloom in late July and August here in San Diego near beach
* petal count less than or equal to 40 due to coolish temps near beach
* petal count 6, i..e. not single
* disease resistance would be nice due to fog from beach, but not
absolutely necessary (I can just spray like crazy I guess).


I wouldn't plant New Dawn in SoCal. It almost refuses to rebloom in
coastal NorCal, so I have my doubts about your use of it in San Diego.
It is a beautiful rose, and huge, and would soon turn your 4 foot fence
into rubble. It is viciously thorny. If High Hopes is like Compassion,
it would be a better choice in terms of size. You might need two plants
because I doubt the canes will get 15 feet long. Maybe in 5 or 6
years...

Instead of expecting 15 foot canes, you'd be better off planting two
climbers with lax canes. In pink, you can't do better than Renae, which
you can obtain by looking at HelpMeFindRoses,
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/index.html and doing a search. Renae has
pink flowers, nice scent, no thorns, maroon canes and perfect disease
resistance. You will have to get it mail order.

In fact, at 4 feet there are many many pink roses that would suit. You
don't really need a climber. Belinda's Dream is a shrub rose that grows
4 feet, and it is beautiful. Here is my brand new this spring plant in
a pot: http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/BelindasDreamPot.jpg
Mail order fromj Antique Rose Emporium.

Here's Carefree Beauty, another disease free shrub:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=974

Brilliant Pink Iceberg will grow 8 feet in San Diego, but it must be in
full sun for best color. It will get occasional powdery mildew on the
peducles, but it causes no harm.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=24955

If you want a climber, then Climbing Pinkie is another choice. The
individual flowers aren't unique, but the growth is vigorous, almost
thorn free, and the flowering is constant.

Take a look at the on-line catalogs of Antique Rose Emporium and
Chamblee's Roses. ARE sends nice, healthy own-root plants in big pots.
I haven't ordered from Chamblees, but they are well thought of. Also,
Ashdown Roses on the other coast grows nice big roses, but try to order
from someplace as close to home as possible to minimize shipping.

Fall is the best time to plant roses in California. They will grow
roots all fall and burst into growth next spring.

--
-=-
Cass
USDA Zone 9 Left Coast
www.rosefog.us
  #4   Report Post  
Old 15-08-2003, 05:57 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

In article , dave weil
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:45:14 -0700, Bruce Ritchings
wrote:

Hello,
My local nursery says I should choose between High Hopes and New
Dawn for the rose I need. Can someone please point me to information
on these two?

Here's what I'm looking for (perhaps someone has better ideas than
High Hopes or New Dawn?)
* long rambler (15') that will grow along a 4' fence
* pink (New Dawn is apparently barely pink, so it might fill the bill)
* must bloom in late July and August here in San Diego near beach
* petal count less than or equal to 40 due to coolish temps near beach
* petal count 6, i..e. not single
* disease resistance would be nice due to fog from beach, but not
absolutely necessary (I can just spray like crazy I guess).

Thanks in advance, Bruce


Probably not big enough, but here goes - Souvenir de la Malmaison,
Cl.:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=61
4


A fabulous rose but lots of powdery mildew in foggy coastal California.

Plant several of them to cover the fence.

Here's another - Setina:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=21
0


Nice choice. Great old rose, good foliage, nice call, Dave.

Here's one that might fit the bill - Parade, a descendent of New Dawn:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=46
2


I have Parade, and it's a beauty. Dark pink, tho, not light like New
Dawn. Disease resistance isn't perfect but pretty good.

And a pic:

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=4648

Madame Caroline Testout, Cl.:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=52
7



Don't let the greater than 15 ft thing stop you from considering some
really fine plants. You can do multiple plantings.

Also, finally, even though it doesn't sound like the kind of bloom
that you're looking for (there shouldn't be a climatic problem
though), my old standby, Cecile Brunner, Cl. I've got 20 ft. canes
within 3 years. and it's in bloom as we speak. Of course, the blooms
are tiny by themselves, but they're pink and plentiful, borne on big
panticles. If you go this route,you'll have to make sure that you get
a repeat blooming variety, because there are apparently some
once-blooming types. I got mine from Antique Rose Emporium, so they
are all likely from the same stock (and they are own root). The blooms
are only 1 to 1 1/2 inches across and they don't last long, but they
are quickly replaced. They look *really* cute partially unfurled (like
tiny cupped HTs, but this only lasts for a couple of says before they
billow out like you see in the pics:

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=891


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=90
3

(note the phrase 20 to 30 feet g)

Here's a recent pic of mine after only 3 seasons in Zone 6b,
Nashville:

http://www.pbase.com/image/20165860

The top of that plant is about 12 feet up but that mass up in the
trees consists of really long canes wrapped around themselves...

...oh yeah, here in Nashville, this plant blooms as late as November.


A huge wonderful tree climber that will eat the sidewalk in Sandy Eggo.
  #5   Report Post  
Old 15-08-2003, 05:57 AM
Bruce Ritchings
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

Dave,
Thanks for all your suggestions. Looking thru your list, I think
Parade suits our needs best. The only question is one of petal count.
The pictures seem to suggest that it's fairly high, but I can't be
sure, and I couldn't find any info on it. Any idea?
Thanks again, Bruce





On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:30:58 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

http://www.pbase.com/image/20165860




  #6   Report Post  
Old 15-08-2003, 05:59 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

In article , Bruce
Ritchings wrote:

Hello,
My local nursery says I should choose between High Hopes and New
Dawn for the rose I need. Can someone please point me to information
on these two?


Your nursery probably advises these because they have them in stock.
I'm not familiar with High Hopes, but here's the info:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=3269
I'm a great fan of it's parent, Compassion, but I can report that it's
disease resistance in coastal California is not perfect. I advise
against New Dawn (see below) in San Diego.

Here's what I'm looking for (perhaps someone has better ideas than
High Hopes or New Dawn?)
* long rambler (15') that will grow along a 4' fence
* pink (New Dawn is apparently barely pink, so it might fill the bill)
* must bloom in late July and August here in San Diego near beach
* petal count less than or equal to 40 due to coolish temps near beach
* petal count 6, i..e. not single
* disease resistance would be nice due to fog from beach, but not
absolutely necessary (I can just spray like crazy I guess).


I wouldn't plant New Dawn in SoCal. It almost refuses to rebloom in
coastal NorCal, so I have my doubts about your use of it in San Diego.
It is a beautiful rose, and huge, and would soon turn your 4 foot fence
into rubble. It is viciously thorny. If High Hopes is like Compassion,
it would be a better choice in terms of size. You might need two plants
because I doubt the canes will get 15 feet long. Maybe in 5 or 6
years...

Instead of expecting 15 foot canes, you'd be better off planting two
climbers with lax canes. In pink, you can't do better than Renae, which
you can obtain by looking at HelpMeFindRoses,
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/index.html and doing a search. Renae has
pink flowers, nice scent, no thorns, maroon canes and perfect disease
resistance. You will have to get it mail order.

In fact, at 4 feet there are many many pink roses that would suit. You
don't really need a climber. Belinda's Dream is a shrub rose that grows
4 feet, and it is beautiful. Here is my brand new this spring plant in
a pot: http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/BelindasDreamPot.jpg
Mail order fromj Antique Rose Emporium.

Here's Carefree Beauty, another disease free shrub:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=974

Brilliant Pink Iceberg will grow 8 feet in San Diego, but it must be in
full sun for best color. It will get occasional powdery mildew on the
peducles, but it causes no harm.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=24955

If you want a climber, then Climbing Pinkie is another choice. The
individual flowers aren't unique, but the growth is vigorous, almost
thorn free, and the flowering is constant.

Take a look at the on-line catalogs of Antique Rose Emporium and
Chamblee's Roses. ARE sends nice, healthy own-root plants in big pots.
I haven't ordered from Chamblees, but they are well thought of. Also,
Ashdown Roses on the other coast grows nice big roses, but try to order
from someplace as close to home as possible to minimize shipping.

Fall is the best time to plant roses in California. They will grow
roots all fall and burst into growth next spring.

--
-=-
Cass
USDA Zone 9 Left Coast
www.rosefog.us
  #7   Report Post  
Old 15-08-2003, 05:59 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

In article , dave weil
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:45:14 -0700, Bruce Ritchings
wrote:

Hello,
My local nursery says I should choose between High Hopes and New
Dawn for the rose I need. Can someone please point me to information
on these two?

Here's what I'm looking for (perhaps someone has better ideas than
High Hopes or New Dawn?)
* long rambler (15') that will grow along a 4' fence
* pink (New Dawn is apparently barely pink, so it might fill the bill)
* must bloom in late July and August here in San Diego near beach
* petal count less than or equal to 40 due to coolish temps near beach
* petal count 6, i..e. not single
* disease resistance would be nice due to fog from beach, but not
absolutely necessary (I can just spray like crazy I guess).

Thanks in advance, Bruce


Probably not big enough, but here goes - Souvenir de la Malmaison,
Cl.:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=61
4


A fabulous rose but lots of powdery mildew in foggy coastal California.

Plant several of them to cover the fence.

Here's another - Setina:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=21
0


Nice choice. Great old rose, good foliage, nice call, Dave.

Here's one that might fit the bill - Parade, a descendent of New Dawn:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=46
2


I have Parade, and it's a beauty. Dark pink, tho, not light like New
Dawn. Disease resistance isn't perfect but pretty good.

And a pic:

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=4648

Madame Caroline Testout, Cl.:


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=52
7



Don't let the greater than 15 ft thing stop you from considering some
really fine plants. You can do multiple plantings.

Also, finally, even though it doesn't sound like the kind of bloom
that you're looking for (there shouldn't be a climatic problem
though), my old standby, Cecile Brunner, Cl. I've got 20 ft. canes
within 3 years. and it's in bloom as we speak. Of course, the blooms
are tiny by themselves, but they're pink and plentiful, borne on big
panticles. If you go this route,you'll have to make sure that you get
a repeat blooming variety, because there are apparently some
once-blooming types. I got mine from Antique Rose Emporium, so they
are all likely from the same stock (and they are own root). The blooms
are only 1 to 1 1/2 inches across and they don't last long, but they
are quickly replaced. They look *really* cute partially unfurled (like
tiny cupped HTs, but this only lasts for a couple of says before they
billow out like you see in the pics:

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=891


http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com/item.tmpl$search?db=roses.db&eqskudatarq=90
3

(note the phrase 20 to 30 feet g)

Here's a recent pic of mine after only 3 seasons in Zone 6b,
Nashville:

http://www.pbase.com/image/20165860

The top of that plant is about 12 feet up but that mass up in the
trees consists of really long canes wrapped around themselves...

...oh yeah, here in Nashville, this plant blooms as late as November.


A huge wonderful tree climber that will eat the sidewalk in Sandy Eggo.
  #8   Report Post  
Old 15-08-2003, 05:59 AM
Bruce Ritchings
 
Posts: n/a
Default High Hopes/New Dawn/other ideas?

Dave,
Thanks for all your suggestions. Looking thru your list, I think
Parade suits our needs best. The only question is one of petal count.
The pictures seem to suggest that it's fairly high, but I can't be
sure, and I couldn't find any info on it. Any idea?
Thanks again, Bruce





On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:30:58 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

http://www.pbase.com/image/20165860




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