Howdy,

Well I guess that mini roses are a popular subject! I am growing
them outside on a screened in patio area and as you can tell I am in
the Tampa Bay area. Know enough about protecting (bringing in) if we
get a frost which is not very often. I am more concerned about the
hot weather killing it off than the cold. If anyone has info on that
please keep me updated, always trying to pick up as much info as I can
about growing the little beauties.


Thanks in advance.

Pam

On 13 Sep 2003 07:37:34 -0700, (Pam) wrote:

Howdy,

Well I guess that mini roses are a popular subject! I am growing
them outside on a screened in patio area and as you can tell I am in
the Tampa Bay area. Know enough about protecting (bringing in) if we
get a frost which is not very often. I am more concerned about the
hot weather killing it off than the cold. If anyone has info on that
please keep me updated, always trying to pick up as much info as I can
about growing the little beauties.


Thanks in advance.

Pam

Several things to look at (now that you've given more info). If it's a
screened in porch, how much direct sunlight do they get? Roses really
need at least 6 hours of direct sunlight to do their best.

Are you letting them dry out on occasion? Roses need copious amounts
of water, but, conversely, they don't like wet feet either. If you let
the pot completely dry out for even two days, this could be
disastarous. I think it takes a lot of skill to grow a water-loving
plant like a rose in a pot, because it's so hard to strike a balance
between keeping the soil moist but not sodden, especially for small
pots where they can dry out in a day. Perhaps you could plant them in
larger pots (if you're keepiing them in their original small plastic
pots, this could be part of your problem). Keep in mind that if the
pot ever *completely* dries out, you've probably killed the plant.

Anyway, I wouldn't grow miniature roses in pots in any case, but
that's just me. For a patio in Tampa, I can think of far better
alternatives.

On 13 Sep 2003 07:37:34 -0700, (Pam) wrote:

Howdy,

Well I guess that mini roses are a popular subject!

They are, indeed. In fact, had you googled this group using keywords
"miniature roses" you would have found lots of posts. Now do tell why
you would expect to post a question and get lots of responses inside
of 24 hours from a gardening group in the summer? Patience, dahling.

Dave gave you great advice, but the thread made me realize what you
are doing. You are leaving the little trays under the roses, aren't
you? That is what is killing your roses. I have a friend who must have
potted roses because she must have GRASS in the big full sun area
(pffft to that) and must leave the trays under the pots because of
that unsightly stain the draining water leaves on the concrete. She
now has half-dead roses. Joy is messy and not for the anal retentive.

Dave, shame on you! Letting them dry out completely is not the same
thing as making sure they drain continuously. NO TRAYS under potted
roses. Full sun, lots of water, no trays, and they will be fine. And I
would not keep them in the house at all, I don't care what Harry and
David's says.




I am growing
them outside on a screened in patio area and as you can tell I am in
the Tampa Bay area. Know enough about protecting (bringing in) if we
get a frost which is not very often. I am more concerned about the
hot weather killing it off than the cold. If anyone has info on that
please keep me updated, always trying to pick up as much info as I can
about growing the little beauties.


Thanks in advance.

Pam

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:02:18 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On 13 Sep 2003 07:37:34 -0700, (Pam) wrote:

Howdy,

Well I guess that mini roses are a popular subject! I am growing
them outside on a screened in patio area and as you can tell I am in
the Tampa Bay area. Know enough about protecting (bringing in) if we


Anyway, I wouldn't grow miniature roses in pots in any case, but
that's just me. For a patio in Tampa, I can think of far better
alternatives.

Me too. Pam's boyfriend needs to branch out and buy her a house
instead of roses next time, where she can have an outside garden! What
do you think, Pam?

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:41:30 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On 13 Sep 2003 07:37:34 -0700, (Pam) wrote:

Howdy,

Well I guess that mini roses are a popular subject!

They are, indeed. In fact, had you googled this group using keywords
"miniature roses" you would have found lots of posts. Now do tell why
you would expect to post a question and get lots of responses inside
of 24 hours from a gardening group in the summer? Patience, dahling.

Dave gave you great advice, but the thread made me realize what you
are doing. You are leaving the little trays under the roses, aren't
you? That is what is killing your roses. I have a friend who must have
potted roses because she must have GRASS in the big full sun area
(pffft to that) and must leave the trays under the pots because of
that unsightly stain the draining water leaves on the concrete. She
now has half-dead roses. Joy is messy and not for the anal retentive.

Dave, shame on you! Letting them dry out completely is not the same
thing as making sure they drain continuously. NO TRAYS under potted
roses. Full sun, lots of water, no trays, and they will be fine. And I
would not keep them in the house at all, I don't care what Harry and
David's says.

I think you're confused Shiva. I don't grow miniature roses in pots. I
don't grow *any* roses in pots, ever. I was simply giving advice from
what I know about the habits of roses.

The only things I have growing in pots are indoor tropicals and a
couple of little things on my porch like begonias, aparagus plants,
and some large concrete planters filled with fading summer annuals.

My thoughts on pots and watering comes from my experience with killing
orchids. Needless to say, I don't grow plants with little tolerance to
extremes in watering. I prefer to have a plant that has a little fudge
factor built in (when it comes to potted plants).

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:14:53 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



Dave, shame on you! Letting them dry out completely is not the same
thing as making sure they drain continuously. NO TRAYS under potted
roses. Full sun, lots of water, no trays, and they will be fine. And I
would not keep them in the house at all, I don't care what Harry and
David's says.

I think you're confused Shiva. I don't grow miniature roses in pots. I
don't grow *any* roses in pots, ever. I was simply giving advice from
what I know about the habits of roses.

Does not follow. You said:

"Are you letting them dry out on occasion? Roses need copious amounts
of water, but, conversely, they don't like wet feet either."

Then you went on to say that Pam should not let them dry out
completely--so you mixed two really important items in a strange way.

1. They need to be moist
2. They need to drain.

I was speed reading, as usual, but the above two items are the
important things Pam needed to know, in addition to the outside thing
and the sunlight thing.



My thoughts on pots and watering comes from my experience with killing
orchids. Needless to say, I don't grow plants with little tolerance to
extremes in watering. I prefer to have a plant that has a little fudge
factor built in (when it comes to potted plants).

You are in my zone, or damned close, aren't you? . It is a piece of
cake to grow roses in pots, even in droughts. If I can do it busy as I
am, anyone can.

1. Large enough pot (20 inch, I don't do volume)
2. Attention every other day. Just a quick look, then water or don't.

I have yet to have winter kill a potted rose, though I have left lots
of mine out unprotected due to sheer negligence.

I like growing them in pots as they stay mobile. I can get to know
their growth habits a little and the look of their blooms a lot, then
decide where, if anywhere, they belong in the ground.

Putting new roses in larger pots also buys those of us with rather
weak backs or crappy hole digging skills a bit of time before we have
to get those babies in the ground. It is a whole lot easier to dig a
few 2X2 holes a month than to dig 15 in a weekend. Not to mention
"possible."

What are you doing in this weekend? I am working like a dawg, of
course. Gorgeous cool moist gardening weather, though.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:08:40 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:14:53 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



Dave, shame on you! Letting them dry out completely is not the same
thing as making sure they drain continuously. NO TRAYS under potted
roses. Full sun, lots of water, no trays, and they will be fine. And I
would not keep them in the house at all, I don't care what Harry and
David's says.

I think you're confused Shiva. I don't grow miniature roses in pots. I
don't grow *any* roses in pots, ever. I was simply giving advice from
what I know about the habits of roses.

Does not follow. You said:

"Are you letting them dry out on occasion? Roses need copious amounts
of water, but, conversely, they don't like wet feet either."

Then you went on to say that Pam should not let them dry out
completely--so you mixed two really important items in a strange way.

Maybe I wasn't explainng myself properly.

First, I was pointing out how contradictory the water needs of roses
are. First of all, they like a lot of water. However, they don't like
to dry out completely. In that sense, they're a little like orchids.

What this means is that there's little margin for error. If you
overwater them in a small pot, the soil is likely to get sodden (and,
as you point out, this is exacerbated if you use trays and don't empty
them after watering - few plants like wet feet). However, if you try
to let them dry a little between waterings and you wait even an extra
day or two, you might get a totally dry pot before you know it and by
that point, you've likely killed the plant. Not critical for a plant
like a ficus or a pothos, both of which will remind you that they want
water.

1. They need to be moist
2. They need to drain.

I was speed reading, as usual, but the above two items are the
important things Pam needed to know, in addition to the outside thing
and the sunlight thing.

I agree. Maybe my explanation wasn't the clearest.

My thoughts on pots and watering comes from my experience with killing
orchids. Needless to say, I don't grow plants with little tolerance to
extremes in watering. I prefer to have a plant that has a little fudge
factor built in (when it comes to potted plants).

You are in my zone, or damned close, aren't you? . It is a piece of
cake to grow roses in pots, even in droughts. If I can do it busy as I
am, anyone can.

Perhaps. However, I'm not the best with judging moisture in pots.
Indoors, it's not as big of a deal, because I can err on the side of
*not* watering (overwatering tropicals is probably the cause of more
deaths than underwatering). With tropicals, often they'll give you
some clear signs that they finally need water. With roses, by that
point, it's probably too late, especially in little pots exposed to
wind and sunlight. A corollary is the fact that I finally had to give
up and plant two hanging baskets of wave petunias in the ground
because they were drying out so quickly that sometimes even two
waterings a day weren't enough to keep them from starting to wilt. In
the ground, they did a lot better.

Besides, I don't really care for roses in pots.

1. Large enough pot (20 inch, I don't do volume)

Well, yes. That was my point about a bigger watering window. I'm
assuming that Pam was just trying to grow the miniatures in the
original plastic pots.

2. Attention every other day. Just a quick look, then water or don't.

In my climate, the pots almost have to be watered every day (to the
rose standard I mean - the few pots that I have now can dry out
completely for a day without killing the plants - maybe I'm wrong
though and roses can survive the same sort of treatment - remember,
I'm not talking about 20 in. pots but small plastic ones) unless they
get rained on.

How's *that* for a convoluted sentence?

I have yet to have winter kill a potted rose, though I have left lots
of mine out unprotected due to sheer negligence.

Still, wouldn't you agree that the ideal thing would be to protect
them? Also, watering isn't as big of a deal during winter either.

I like growing them in pots as they stay mobile. I can get to know
their growth habits a little and the look of their blooms a lot, then
decide where, if anywhere, they belong in the ground.

And I just don't think of roses as potted plants. Perhaps if I had a
fancy patio or something, I might see things in a different light.

Putting new roses in larger pots also buys those of us with rather
weak backs or crappy hole digging skills a bit of time before we have
to get those babies in the ground. It is a whole lot easier to dig a
few 2X2 holes a month than to dig 15 in a weekend. Not to mention
"possible."

My antipathy for potted roses is my own. Others have my blessing to
grow roses in pots chuckle.

Besides, it takes me less than 5 minutes to dig a 2X2 hole and I
barely break a sweat. That's the blessing of great soil.

What are you doing in this weekend? I am working like a dawg, of
course. Gorgeous cool moist gardening weather, though.

I'm not working my garden, that's for sure. I had a brutal shift at
work last night (it was great but I didn't get home until around 1am
and I was bone tired). Tonight promises the same so I'm marshalling my
energy.

This is the time where I start going dormant myself g. that's in
terms of gardening of course.

"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:02:18 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

Me too. Pam's boyfriend needs to branch out and buy her a house
instead of roses next time, where she can have an outside garden! What
do you think, Pam?

Shiva-- shame, shame, shame.....how sexist, can I believe my eyes? "Her
boyfriend needs to buy her a house" ? As if she needs HIM to do it? Hey,
while we're on the subject....if anyone has any spare boyfriends around, you
know, the kind that have SO much money they can buy people houses-- send 'em
up here to Seattle, I want one too. :Þ

JimS.
Seattle

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:32:20 GMT, "JimS."
wrote:



Shiva-- shame, shame, shame.....how sexist, can I believe my eyes? "Her
boyfriend needs to buy her a house" ? As if she needs HIM to do it?

See here hiney, uh, I mean honey, she doesn't NEED him to buy her a
house OR roses, but it is nice, eh? He might as well seque to a house,
if it pleases her. G Presents are always good.


Hey,
while we're on the subject....if anyone has any spare boyfriends around, you
know, the kind that have SO much money they can buy people houses-- send 'em
up here to Seattle, I want one too. :Þ


I had one in the 80s but I think he is in prison now. You know, my
Greek friend. G Plus he is no doubt practically a geezer by now. Of
course, when they have enough money some of us can squint just right
and they look like Brad Pitt. Or Johnny Depp. Who was very hot in the
Pirates movie, did you see it? For once he didn't look girly.

Glad you're back, I lost track of time and thought you were still on
vacation in exotic spots! I will email for all the details!




JimS.
Seattle

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:39:47 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



Besides, it takes me less than 5 minutes to dig a 2X2 hole and I
barely break a sweat.

Braggart! G

That's the blessing of great soil.

No it isn't! I have great soil too, but it is heavy for a small paper
pusher type person to move around. I lost my bartending callouses
years ago. Not that they helped much with a shovel


What are you doing in this weekend? I am working like a dawg, of
course. Gorgeous cool moist gardening weather, though.

I'm not working my garden, that's for sure. I had a brutal shift at
work last night (it was great but I didn't get home until around 1am
and I was bone tired). Tonight promises the same so I'm marshalling my
energy.

God but I do remember those days. As a bartender, waking up with hands
so stiff I thought I had arthritis at age 26. Getting home at 3 AM and
peeling off pantyhose stuck to my legs with grenadine and frangelico
and tequila. As a waitress, sitting bolt upright in the middle of the
night thinking "oh my god, there's a table in section 6 still waiting
for their check! What are you doing now?


This is the time where I start going dormant myself g. that's in
terms of gardening of course.

Me too but the weather gets me happy. I hate heat. Love fall for that
reason.

Well, you folks are showing me just how lucky I am with my hunny. The house
came with me (along with the kids and the payments) but he does dig holes
for me if I ask (nicely) though I do most myself when MY time permits. He
also roto tills large patches of grass I've just killed (for more beds) and
builds boxes for raised beds and fences to keep the dog and stray neighbor
kids out. He doesn't have a brother, but I have a big strappin' 17 year old
who likes to show off his manly brute strength (rolling my eyes here lol) by
hauling mulch/rocks/compost etc for me, and a 7(he would correct me at this
point and add 'and a half') year old who are in training to spoil some lucky
ladies rotten in due time as well. They do the heavy work, even though I
am capable (when not hurting-I have a 'guy type job' that beats me up on
occasion) but they do that and then let me do the 'tedious' work that I call
'therapy' and enjoy it when it's done. This type of guy is out there folks,
I had to 'kiss a frog' first, but I found my prince eventually and now we're
training two more for the future lol.

As for Pam, IMO sounds like she has a good start with this one. He's buying
her roses in plant form. He could be buying things for himself and saying
'Look hunny what I got for us!' or worse, doing that and then she finds them
on her credit card bill the next month lol. (can you say 'frog'?) This one
has potential, as I see it, he can be trained and soon they'll be digging
holes together somewhere.

All that said, I did know of a guy who might have been persuaded to dig
holes and such who isn't far from Seatle, but somebody snagged him recently.
Sorry. ;-)




"JimS." wrote in message
news9L8b.332113$cF.100564@rwcrnsc53...

"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:02:18 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

Me too. Pam's boyfriend needs to branch out and buy her a house
instead of roses next time, where she can have an outside garden! What
do you think, Pam?

Shiva-- shame, shame, shame.....how sexist, can I believe my eyes? "Her
boyfriend needs to buy her a house" ? As if she needs HIM to do it?
Hey,
while we're on the subject....if anyone has any spare boyfriends around,
you
know, the kind that have SO much money they can buy people houses-- send
'em
up here to Seattle, I want one too. :Þ

JimS.
Seattle

"Pam" wrote in message
om...
Howdy,

Well I guess that mini roses are a popular subject! I am growing
them outside on a screened in patio area and as you can tell I am in
the Tampa Bay area. Know enough about protecting (bringing in) if we
get a frost which is not very often. I am more concerned about the
hot weather killing it off than the cold. If anyone has info on that
please keep me updated, always trying to pick up as much info as I can
about growing the little beauties.

Thanks in advance.
Pam

Hi Pam,

I grow a lot of the roses at my house in pots and they are mostly minis and
patio roses! I always pot them up into bigger pots than the ones I buy them
in. This helps to make sure they do not dry out too quickly in hot weather
and sometimes it is an indication that a rose needs to be potted up into a
bigger pot again if a particular roses is struggling with heat when the
others are doing fine.

I do find that the roses in pots need more care and attention for both
fungal diseases, watering and feeding than do the roses in the ground. Just
yesterday morning I watered most of the roses but I skipped a HT in a large
pot because I thought it had enough water. I came home yesterday afternoon
and its flower was all limp from not enough water and the heat. I gave it a
very good water (both the pot and the flower) and this morning the flower
has perked up again.

While in the last 18 months of growing minis in pots, I'm sure there have
been times when I have not watered them enough in hot weather, I have not
had one die on me. They may have stopped flowering in the hotter periods but
they certainly came back when the weather got cooler. I think even in pots,
roses can be quite resilient.

I also have slow release Osmocote for Roses in all my pots and some lucerne
hay to keep the moisture in the pots and add nutrients as it breaks down. It
is good advice to regularly feed roses in pots every fortnight with a liquid
fertiliser. I would like to say that I liquid feed my roses every fortnight
with seaweed and fish emulsion however I just don't seem to be that
organised - it is generally every month or so that I liquid feed

Happy rose growing,

Kirra
Brisbane, Australia
z10