Hi everybody!

Long time no post, :-) How is everybody doing? I still read the newsgroup
daily, but haven't had time to post.
I am in Zones 9-10,(Southern, CA). There is this part of grass in my
backyard, where the grass won't grow well unless I water with 234234 gallons
of water. :-(
So, time to take the grass out, besides who likes grass?!

The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area? Should I use
decorative rock? Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses? Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?
What would YOU do if it was your project?

Here is a pic of looking at the area through the kitchen window:
http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%201.JPG

Pic looking at area from yard:
http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%202.JPG

General pic:
http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%203.JPG

Pic looking at area from patio:
http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%204.JPG

Thanks,
Emil
Zones 9-10

"Emil" wrote in message
...
Hi everybody!

Long time no post, :-) How is everybody doing? I still
read the newsgroup
daily, but haven't had time to post.
I am in Zones 9-10,(Southern, CA). There is this part of
grass in my
backyard, where the grass won't grow well unless I water
with 234234 gallons
of water. :-(
So, time to take the grass out, besides who likes grass?!

Our lot is 1.5 acres, most of which is just weeds which we
mow faithfully. So I guess I would have to say I like grass
(really, weeds) in parts of the yard, else we'd have to deal
with mud or dust.

The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about
how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area?

I think I would go with a combination of minis, small
floribundas & hybrid teas, maybe a couple tree roses for
height - i.e., I'd want as many roses as possible in the
space! So how many roses depends on what kinds (size &
growth habit). Do you get a good breeze most of the time?
That also affects how close together you plant the shrubs.

Should I use
decorative rock?

Do you have a safe way of keeping it weeded among the roses?
That would be my only concern. Well, the other concern
would be heat concentration. You're going to have to water
a lot as it is; rock might make things even hotter.

Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses?

6.5' isn't all that wide. Several of my beds are about that
wide, and I can reach to the center of the bed, although to
do careful pruning I usually get up into the bed. (I'm 5'5"
female so arms aren't all that long.) Problem with a path is
depending on what it consists of, that's an area that
doesn't get rain. I use various temporary paths of cedar
fencing or scrap trellis (knee pads mandatory!) and that
seems to work.

Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?

I like Roundup, but I've also used plastic paint cloth
weighted down by bricks until the sun does its job. I've
also just dug down until I got past roots - i.e., excavate
the top 6" or so. Of course that takes good topsoil, and if
you have shallow soil it's not a good idea. (My soil is
very deep.)

What would YOU do if it was your project?

I'd probably make a raised bed out of it, because those are
easier to work in (for me, anyway).

Planning a new bed is fun. Enjoy, and keep us informed.

Gail
San Antonio TX Zone 8

"Emil" wrote in message
...
Hi everybody!

Long time no post, :-) How is everybody doing? I still
read the newsgroup
daily, but haven't had time to post.
I am in Zones 9-10,(Southern, CA). There is this part of
grass in my
backyard, where the grass won't grow well unless I water
with 234234 gallons
of water. :-(
So, time to take the grass out, besides who likes grass?!

Our lot is 1.5 acres, most of which is just weeds which we
mow faithfully. So I guess I would have to say I like grass
(really, weeds) in parts of the yard, else we'd have to deal
with mud or dust.

The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about
how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area?

I think I would go with a combination of minis, small
floribundas & hybrid teas, maybe a couple tree roses for
height - i.e., I'd want as many roses as possible in the
space! So how many roses depends on what kinds (size &
growth habit). Do you get a good breeze most of the time?
That also affects how close together you plant the shrubs.

Should I use
decorative rock?

Do you have a safe way of keeping it weeded among the roses?
That would be my only concern. Well, the other concern
would be heat concentration. You're going to have to water
a lot as it is; rock might make things even hotter.

Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses?

6.5' isn't all that wide. Several of my beds are about that
wide, and I can reach to the center of the bed, although to
do careful pruning I usually get up into the bed. (I'm 5'5"
female so arms aren't all that long.) Problem with a path is
depending on what it consists of, that's an area that
doesn't get rain. I use various temporary paths of cedar
fencing or scrap trellis (knee pads mandatory!) and that
seems to work.

Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?

I like Roundup, but I've also used plastic paint cloth
weighted down by bricks until the sun does its job. I've
also just dug down until I got past roots - i.e., excavate
the top 6" or so. Of course that takes good topsoil, and if
you have shallow soil it's not a good idea. (My soil is
very deep.)

What would YOU do if it was your project?

I'd probably make a raised bed out of it, because those are
easier to work in (for me, anyway).

Planning a new bed is fun. Enjoy, and keep us informed.

Gail
San Antonio TX Zone 8

You need something in the back corner like a wooden bench with a slatted
timber cover over it to give the eye something to look at. Put a big
friggin huge climbing rose on it. It shouldn't be centered but kind of
facing the center of the opposite wall where you should have a concrete
bench for people to sit on and have a less noisy private conversation when
you have a cook-out. I'd keep the roses away from the bench so people
don't get stung when they're sitting. I'd recommend a bird bath, and a
simple board on a stick bird feeder in the middle of the tea roses on the
upper right of the picture. Put a Mr. Lincoln at the base of the bird
feeder. No plastic or paint please. The wood bench in the slat covered
alcove could double as a platform to sit clay potted plants on too.
I must admit I'm lost on what do to about the central grassy region as I'm
not from the South West. I would recommend some kind of drip irrigation
around the perimeter though. Ultimately, you don't want to plant stuff
that requires constant water maintenance or it dies.

|-------------------|
|alcove tea |
| / roses |
|/ |
| |
|tea B |
|roses e |
| n |
|shrub c |
|rose h |
| |
| |
| |
| grill |
********************
PATIO chairs
table
********************
HOUSE



Emil wrote:
: Hi everybody!
:
: Long time no post, :-) How is everybody doing? I still read the newsgroup
: daily, but haven't had time to post.
: I am in Zones 9-10,(Southern, CA). There is this part of grass in my
: backyard, where the grass won't grow well unless I water with 234234 gallons
: of water. :-(
: So, time to take the grass out, besides who likes grass?!
:
: The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about how to make the
: area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area? Should I use
: decorative rock? Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
: through and prune roses? Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
: them without chemicals?
: What would YOU do if it was your project?
:
: Here is a pic of looking at the area through the kitchen window:
: http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%201.JPG
:
: Pic looking at area from yard:
: http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%202.JPG
:
: General pic:
: http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%203.JPG
:
: Pic looking at area from patio:
: http://www.dodgetrucks.org/home/emil/Grass%204.JPG
:
: Thanks,
: Emil
: Zones 9-10
:
:

--



Tom Line

Emil asked:
The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area?

I would put a bunch of miniatures in pots on various height plant
stands. You could use up to 30 of them. It would be spectacular.

Should I use
decorative rock?

No. You should use decorative bark mulch over landscape fabric.


Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses?

You should arrange the pots and stands so you can get your nose right
up into each rose, and deadhead them while standing.


Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?

You don't need chemicals for this simple task. A hoe would work just
fine. OR just cover it with black plastic for a few weeks.

What would YOU do if it was your project?

Minatures in pots on plant stands on a bark mulch base watered by
drip irrigation. I would do it this way because it is a small area by
a patio.

Have fun, it sounds like a great project.

Bob Bauer
http://www.rose-roses.com/

Thanks for everyones help!
Some more thoughts on my project. I want to use hybrid teas, nothing else,
and they will all be planted in the soil. I think I'll go with hybrid teas
surrounding a status, or a bench. Something to spruce up the area. What you
guys think?

Emil
"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
"Emil" wrote in message
...
Hi everybody!

Long time no post, :-) How is everybody doing? I still
read the newsgroup
daily, but haven't had time to post.
I am in Zones 9-10,(Southern, CA). There is this part of
grass in my
backyard, where the grass won't grow well unless I water
with 234234 gallons
of water. :-(
So, time to take the grass out, besides who likes grass?!

Our lot is 1.5 acres, most of which is just weeds which we
mow faithfully. So I guess I would have to say I like grass
(really, weeds) in parts of the yard, else we'd have to deal
with mud or dust.

The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about
how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area?

I think I would go with a combination of minis, small
floribundas & hybrid teas, maybe a couple tree roses for
height - i.e., I'd want as many roses as possible in the
space! So how many roses depends on what kinds (size &
growth habit). Do you get a good breeze most of the time?
That also affects how close together you plant the shrubs.

Should I use
decorative rock?

Do you have a safe way of keeping it weeded among the roses?
That would be my only concern. Well, the other concern
would be heat concentration. You're going to have to water
a lot as it is; rock might make things even hotter.

Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses?

6.5' isn't all that wide. Several of my beds are about that
wide, and I can reach to the center of the bed, although to
do careful pruning I usually get up into the bed. (I'm 5'5"
female so arms aren't all that long.) Problem with a path is
depending on what it consists of, that's an area that
doesn't get rain. I use various temporary paths of cedar
fencing or scrap trellis (knee pads mandatory!) and that
seems to work.

Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?

I like Roundup, but I've also used plastic paint cloth
weighted down by bricks until the sun does its job. I've
also just dug down until I got past roots - i.e., excavate
the top 6" or so. Of course that takes good topsoil, and if
you have shallow soil it's not a good idea. (My soil is
very deep.)

What would YOU do if it was your project?

I'd probably make a raised bed out of it, because those are
easier to work in (for me, anyway).

Planning a new bed is fun. Enjoy, and keep us informed.

Gail
San Antonio TX Zone 8

Sigh, I mean't statue, not status.

Emil



"Emil" wrote in message
...
Thanks for everyones help!
Some more thoughts on my project. I want to use hybrid teas, nothing else,
and they will all be planted in the soil. I think I'll go with hybrid teas
surrounding a status, or a bench. Something to spruce up the area. What
you
guys think?

Emil
"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
"Emil" wrote in message
...
Hi everybody!

Long time no post, :-) How is everybody doing? I still
read the newsgroup
daily, but haven't had time to post.
I am in Zones 9-10,(Southern, CA). There is this part of
grass in my
backyard, where the grass won't grow well unless I water
with 234234 gallons
of water. :-(
So, time to take the grass out, besides who likes grass?!

Our lot is 1.5 acres, most of which is just weeds which we
mow faithfully. So I guess I would have to say I like grass
(really, weeds) in parts of the yard, else we'd have to deal
with mud or dust.

The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about
how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area?

I think I would go with a combination of minis, small
floribundas & hybrid teas, maybe a couple tree roses for
height - i.e., I'd want as many roses as possible in the
space! So how many roses depends on what kinds (size &
growth habit). Do you get a good breeze most of the time?
That also affects how close together you plant the shrubs.

Should I use
decorative rock?

Do you have a safe way of keeping it weeded among the roses?
That would be my only concern. Well, the other concern
would be heat concentration. You're going to have to water
a lot as it is; rock might make things even hotter.

Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses?

6.5' isn't all that wide. Several of my beds are about that
wide, and I can reach to the center of the bed, although to
do careful pruning I usually get up into the bed. (I'm 5'5"
female so arms aren't all that long.) Problem with a path is
depending on what it consists of, that's an area that
doesn't get rain. I use various temporary paths of cedar
fencing or scrap trellis (knee pads mandatory!) and that
seems to work.

Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?

I like Roundup, but I've also used plastic paint cloth
weighted down by bricks until the sun does its job. I've
also just dug down until I got past roots - i.e., excavate
the top 6" or so. Of course that takes good topsoil, and if
you have shallow soil it's not a good idea. (My soil is
very deep.)

What would YOU do if it was your project?

I'd probably make a raised bed out of it, because those are
easier to work in (for me, anyway).

Planning a new bed is fun. Enjoy, and keep us informed.

Gail
San Antonio TX Zone 8

The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area? Should I use
decorative rock? Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses? Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?
What would YOU do if it was your project?

First of I wouldn't use chemicals to 'kill' the grass.
Easiest way is to get a plastic sheet and cover it for
3-4 weeks which will 'cook' it.

Next I'd make the area near the wall into a 3' deep
raised bed to about 24'. this will make it oh so easier
to clean and prune. Also the level changes will allow
you to fill the fore& back ground with color.

The bench idea by tom is pretty good.
Bird feeders there though will attract cats to
the top of wall from where they might attempt
flying leaps @ the birds.

Its pretty obvious that if you put in roses they
will be fairly close to you. So try putting scented
varieties. And wait for them to surprise you. Thorny
giants should be a no-no.

If you can put a Felicia in there. My scented in
the heat and sun favorite. For some reason
cool weather reduces Felicias scent.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:17:10 GMT, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:



The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about how to make the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area? Should I use
decorative rock? Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses? Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or remove
them without chemicals?
What would YOU do if it was your project?

First of I wouldn't use chemicals to 'kill' the grass.
Easiest way is to get a plastic sheet and cover it for
3-4 weeks which will 'cook' it.

Next I'd make the area near the wall into a 3' deep
raised bed to about 24'. this will make it oh so easier
to clean and prune. Also the level changes will allow
you to fill the fore& back ground with color.

The bench idea by tom is pretty good.
Bird feeders there though will attract cats to
the top of wall from where they might attempt
flying leaps @ the birds.

Its pretty obvious that if you put in roses they
will be fairly close to you. So try putting scented
varieties. And wait for them to surprise you. Thorny
giants should be a no-no.

If you can put a Felicia in there. My scented in
the heat and sun favorite. For some reason
cool weather reduces Felicias scent.

Here in Nashville, I haven't found that to be the case so much, but
then again, cool weather here is different than cool weather in KC. It
gets cool at night but it's almost up to 70 now. But I just went
outside and checked and, sure enough, the blooms that are there are
still pretty bold in scent.

One thing about Felicia. If the poster is going to do Felicia, it will
take up almost a third of the space. Nothing wrong with that of
course. It tends to grow in an arching style so, while its "footprint"
is only a couple of feet wide, the top of the plant stretches to 6 to
8 feet wide. Mine has stayed about 6 feet high at max after the second
full season. It is fairly susceptable to black spot. Also, if I were
to do it all over again, I would be fairly agressive with pruning at
the end of the first year. I've found that the bottom growth is fairly
woody and it's starting to get a little 'top-heavy" (although I notice
that there is new growth coming from some of the woody parts). I'll
try to post a couple of pics that shows what I'm talking about, but
that will have to wait until tomorrow, probably.

Felicia doesn't do much in the middle of the summer. But spring and
fall are great. The smell is wonderful (musky, spicy smell) and when
it's in full bloom, you can smell it from a mile away. One downside is
that the blooms are fairly short-lived and aren't very useful for vase
cutting. You can use them and they look nice, but only for about a day
or two.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:17:10 GMT, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:



The space is 6.5 feet by 16 feet. I need some ideas about how to make
the
area look nice. How many roses can I put in that area? Should I use
decorative rock? Should I make a path through the middle, so I can walk
through and prune roses? Should I kill the grass with chemicals, or
remove
them without chemicals?
What would YOU do if it was your project?

First of I wouldn't use chemicals to 'kill' the grass.
Easiest way is to get a plastic sheet and cover it for
3-4 weeks which will 'cook' it.

Next I'd make the area near the wall into a 3' deep
raised bed to about 24'. this will make it oh so easier
to clean and prune. Also the level changes will allow
you to fill the fore& back ground with color.

The bench idea by tom is pretty good.
Bird feeders there though will attract cats to
the top of wall from where they might attempt
flying leaps @ the birds.

Its pretty obvious that if you put in roses they
will be fairly close to you. So try putting scented
varieties. And wait for them to surprise you. Thorny
giants should be a no-no.

If you can put a Felicia in there. My scented in
the heat and sun favorite. For some reason
cool weather reduces Felicias scent.

Here in Nashville, I haven't found that to be the case so much, but
then again, cool weather here is different than cool weather in KC. It
gets cool at night but it's almost up to 70 now. But I just went
outside and checked and, sure enough, the blooms that are there are
still pretty bold in scent.

One thing about Felicia. If the poster is going to do Felicia, it will
take up almost a third of the space. Nothing wrong with that of
course. It tends to grow in an arching style so, while its "footprint"
is only a couple of feet wide, the top of the plant stretches to 6 to
8 feet wide. Mine has stayed about 6 feet high at max after the second
full season. It is fairly susceptable to black spot. Also, if I were
to do it all over again, I would be fairly agressive with pruning at
the end of the first year. I've found that the bottom growth is fairly
woody and it's starting to get a little 'top-heavy" (although I notice
that there is new growth coming from some of the woody parts). I'll
try to post a couple of pics that shows what I'm talking about, but
that will have to wait until tomorrow, probably.

Felicia doesn't do much in the middle of the summer. But spring and
fall are great. The smell is wonderful (musky, spicy smell) and when
it's in full bloom, you can smell it from a mile away. One downside is
that the blooms are fairly short-lived and aren't very useful for vase
cutting. You can use them and they look nice, but only for about a day
or two.

So right dave. I just noticed that in real 100f plus heat Felicia
is the only one that gets even more scented. It still has a scent
in cool weather. Everything else is spot on.

Theo